2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[icybear]

Umm yes I read exactly what you wrote. Stsq strength correlates with the skating skills. And pcs is not only awarded just for the artistry (or Interpretation as it is labeled in the score sheet).

PS. I say this as someone who thinks Daria has the best interpretation of the current Russian juniors, my next favourite junior in that aspect now that Aliona has moved to seniors.

Well there definitely isnt a category in pcs for how well you land your jumps which is the argument you are using against her pcs

 

[Happy Skates]

Umm yes I read exactly what you wrote. Stsq strength correlates with the skating skills. And pcs is not only awarded just for the artistry (or Interpretation as it is labeled in the score sheet).

StSq doesn't necessarily directly correlate with skating skills. A couple of missed turns and you could be down a level or two. Daria has good skating skills, so the StSq was probably due to small errors in turns. On a clean day, I would put Daria ahead in PCS, especially performance, interpretation and composition, and probably in transitions too. However, the fall can affect performance marks, so I can see why the judges would put them around the same. However, I can also understand if someone would still put Daria higher. She still had amazing transitions, extension and performance/interpretation imo.

 

[Fluture]

Daria has excellent skating skills, better than most juniors imo. I found it odd she only received stsq2 when she received stsq4 in her short. Does that mean her skating skills suddenly deteriorated in 2 days?

No. It means on that day she didn‘t meet the requirements for a level four. As simple as that. Meaning, she didn‘t perform all the steps and turns successfully like she did in the SP. Likely because she was affected by the mistakes before and lost a bit of concentration. It happens. Skating skills do play a role in the execution of the step sequence of course but it‘s not like losing a level means your skills are suddenly worse. It just means on that day, you didn‘t meet all the requirements.

As for Daria... I‘m relieved she‘s in the final! For a moment I was worried that Frolova might beat her and while I would have congratulated Anna, I do feel like Daria is the better skater in pretty much every aspect. So, I‘m happy for her. I just hope they give her different music next year because at the moment I‘m not enjoying her skating as much as I probably should given how amazing she is. But that‘s probably just personal taste.

As for those who said they‘d be angry if Vika missed the final because she got unfair assignments... well, Vika also missed the FS at test skates and was the only one with a fall in the SP and was injured, so it‘s understandable why they didn‘t exactly count on her. Maybe it‘s unfair but she certainly did prove that she‘s reliable and consistent. I cannot say anything more about this because I am very biased. Daria is just a much better skater to my eyes and I‘ve never enjoyed Viktoria‘s skating. But she does currently beat Daria in consistency and it‘s a bit weird to have someone with four clean programs in a row miss out on the final. But such is life. It was simply bad luck. Now, if she‘d skated lights out at test skates compared to the Eteri girls and then got harder assignments, I would have understood the frustrations. But that just wasn‘t the case.

 

[Vandevska]

StSq doesn't necessarily directly correlate with skating skills. A couple of missed turns and you could be down a level or two. Daria has good skating skills, so the StSq was probably due to small errors in turns. On a clean day, I would put Daria ahead in PCS, especially performance, interpretation and composition, and probably in transitions too. However, the fall can affect performance marks, so I can see why the judges would put them around the same. However, I can also understand if someone would still put Daria higher. She still had amazing transitions, extension and performance/interpretation imo.

Yes I agree with this. I don't think Daria has terrible skating skills. I really like her. But TES does affect PCS, in both good and bad ways.

 

[Vandevska]

Well there definitely isnt a category in pcs for how well you land your jumps which is the argument you are using against her pcs

No there isn't but it still affects it.

 

[Fluture]

Well there definitely isnt a category in pcs for how well you land your jumps which is the argument you are using against her pcs

No but isn‘t there a rule that caps your PCS at a maximum if you have serious errors? (Such as a fall, which Dasha did today) And even if there isn‘t. Falls and sloppiness on technical elements will inevitably affect the performance in a negative way. Seriously, I like Daria too but why is it so hard to admit there was a better skater today in every aspect? Daria‘s got the jumps, the quality, the everything, as soon as she delivers the judges will reward her anyway.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Disagree, consistency isn't always what counts. If it was then PCS would be pointless; skaters like Aliona and Zhenya with one or two "weak" jumps would be screwed and Sasha would just win everything with her super consistent triple-triples. The quality of Daria's skating (and performance) is above Vasilieva's and Matsuike's. She definitely deserved her 2 silvers.

I will agree that it is superior but it sounds like we can agree to disagree on how much especially when there are very clear mistakes.

When I said consistency counts I was mostly replying to the idea people have that the skating skills, transitions, etc of certain skaters are so superior that it’s almost like multiple incredibly egregious mistakes don’t even matter but they do. The fact that someone lands the jumps does count for something, especially when the person they are up against does not make just one minor mistake (overrotation, upright step out, hand) but multiple very big ones. It’s part of our sport.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

IMO - Dasha is exquisite. I do agree that her IN and PE here weren't as good as Riga (maybe she knows this comp will determine her chances at JGPF). I think she was a tiny bit rushed in her SP StSq, but it was great nonetheless (Daniil's choreography in her SP is actually pretty good). I enjoyed both programs though, they are definitely my favorites out of the Eteri Juniors this season.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

No. It means on that day she didn‘t meet the requirements for a level four. As simple as that. Meaning, she didn‘t perform all the steps and turns successfully like she did in the SP. Likely because she was affected by the mistakes before and lost a bit of concentration. It happens. Skating skills do play a role in the execution of the step sequence of course but it‘s not like losing a level means your skills are suddenly worse. It just means on that day, you didn‘t meet all the requirements.

As for Daria... I‘m relieved she‘s in the final! For a moment I was worried that Frolova might beat her and while I would have congratulated Anna, I do feel like Daria is the better skater in pretty much every aspect. So, I‘m happy for her. I just hope they give her different music next year because at the moment I‘m not enjoying her skating as much as I probably should given how amazing she is. But that‘s probably just personal taste.

As for those who said they‘d be angry if Vika missed the final because she got unfair assignments... well, Vika also missed the FS at test skates and was the only one with a fall in the SP and was injured, so it‘s understandable why they didn‘t exactly count on her. Maybe it‘s unfair but she certainly did prove that she‘s reliable and consistent. I cannot say anything more about this because I am very biased. Daria is just a much better skater to my eyes and I‘ve never enjoyed Viktoria‘s skating. But she does currently beat Daria in consistency and it‘s a bit weird to have someone with four clean programs in a row miss out on the final. But such is life. It was simply bad luck. Now, if she‘d skated lights out at test skates compared to the Eteri girls and then got harder assignments, I would have understood the frustrations. But that just wasn‘t the case.

You mean like Sinitsyna? The girl that also finished fourth at Jr nationals and went to Jr. Worlds. Hmmmm

 

[icybear]

No but isn‘t there a rule that caps your PCS at a maximum if you have serious errors? (Such as a fall, which Dasha did today) And even if there isn‘t. Falls and sloppiness on technical elements will inevitably affect the performance in a negative way. Seriously, I like Daria too but why is it so hard to admit there was a better skater today in every aspect? Daria‘s got the jumps, the quality, the everything, as soon as she delivers the judges will reward her anyway.

I never had a problem with the pcs. In my first post I simply said that I would have liked to give Daria better pcs because of her artistry but I did not complain about the overall pcs judging today except maybe the bit where her and Haein Lee transistions score were the same

 

[nussnacker]

Anna seems to be quite tall, has she been growing a lot lately/over the Summer? I wonder if her jumps got weaker because of the growth sprout.

 

[Fluture]

You mean like Sinitsyna? The girl that also finished fourth at Jr nationals and went to Jr. Worlds. Hmmmm

Yes. Exactly like Sinitsyna. And I have made my opinions clear on that case already. But the talk was about Vasilieva and here I disagreed about it being unfair.

 

[Tolstoj]

What a contrast from last season where the russian girls in juniors won all the events and most of the silvers, this season only Valieva so far has won a gold medal among them.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Yes. Exactly like Sinitsyna. And I have made my opinions clear on that case already. But the talk was about Vasilieva and here I disagreed about it being unfair.

I think the fact that it happened to 2 other non-Eteri skaters without such concerns about injury points to the fact that it could have been unfair. W/d after the short with a fall wasn’t that much different to me than skating and bombing the free. Because with the skaters who fell aren’t you asking what’s going on, are they too injured(in Maya’s case she was). Instead they practically handed them gold and silver medals on a platter while others skaters were treated like dirt. Any skater who wasn’t with Eteri was second class in this whole situation.

 

[Tolstoj]

You mean like Sinitsyna? The girl that also finished fourth at Jr nationals and went to Jr. Worlds. Hmmmm

At her best she's better than Vasilieva and to me better than Usacheva even but she is not that consistent (i'd argue Usacheva isn't either) and the assignments certainly didn't help.

 

[Happy Skates]

You mean like Sinitsyna? The girl that also finished fourth at Jr nationals and went to Jr. Worlds. Hmmmm

I mean other than originally being assigned Lake Placid, Sinitsyna's events weren't all too bad. Chelyabinsk was not a deep field, and the judges were very kind. Egna isn't the worst field either. And I was under the impression that the original Lake Placid assignment was because she already had a US Visa from her US trip (which ironically ended up being the reason she couldn't go). If anyone else was screwed in assignments, it was Tarakanova. Vasilieva too, but as someone else said, Test Skates weren't exactly her friend.

 

[Tolstoj]

I mean other than originally being assigned Lake Placid, Sinitsyna's events weren't all too bad. Chelyabinsk was not a deep field, and the judges were very kind. Egna isn't the worst field either. And I was under the impression that the original Lake Placid assignment was because she already had a US Visa from her US trip (which ironically ended up being the reason she couldn't go). If anyone else was screwed in assignments, it was Tarakanova. Vasilieva too, but as someone else said, Test Skates weren't exactly her friend.

Lake Placid was essentially an event with no chances to win gold unless Alysa Liu bombed, in fact by none of the Eteri skaters were there cause they wanted to give all 3 (originally 4) the chance to win their events.

 

[Happy Skates]

Lake Placid was essentially an event with no chances to win gold unless Alysa Liu bombed, in fact by none of the Eteri skaters were there cause they wanted to give all 3 (originally 4) the chance to win their events.

I agree on the first part, but I was saying their intentions for originally giving her the event may not have been to "help Eteri skaters". They only had one substitute which supports the theory that Sinitsyna and Tarakanova were given the assignment because they had US Visas. They wouldn't just have one (injured) substitute for no reason. Even if your reason were true, they would have put the other non-Eteri skaters (Vasilieva, Frolova) as subs.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

At her best she's better than Vasilieva and to me better than Usacheva even but she is not that consistent (i'd argue Usacheva isn't either) and the assignments certainly didn't help.

Sinitsyna is better than Vasilieva and getting more consistent. I am not trying to argue Vasilieva is #1 or anything but RusFed’s first concern should be getting as many Russian skaters as possible to the final because this is what drives the sport forward in Russia.

The reason I keep saying consistency matters is because when assessing skaters like Vasilieva, Sinitsyna, Khromykh, and Usacheva to determine who should skate where to maximize the number of skaters you have to consider the full package including consistency. It counts! Because you cannot say transitions, posture, line, skating skills, any of that when the skater is prone to multiple errors. You are risking a really good Japanese or Korean skater coming in and taking the medal. In Maya’s case it happened and Daria’s case it was so very close. Yet Vasilieva very clearly beats Matsuike there. Which is consistent with what we have seen from Vasilieva in the past year yet what RusFed must’ve chosen not to take into consideration when determining the assignments.

Vika best some pretty big names at the Cup Final too from what I remember.

 

[nussnacker]

I agree on the first part, but I was saying their intentions for originally giving her the event may not have been to "help Eteri skaters". They only had one substitute which supports the theory that Sinitsyna and Tarakanova were given the assignment because they had US Visas. They wouldn't just have one (injured) substitute for no reason. Even if your reason were true, they would have put the other non-Eteri skaters (Vasilieva, Frolova) as subs.

Logic and common sense isn’t the thing that conspiracy theorists use you’re having too much hope in some people
Listen, Sinitsina was entered there, because federation hates her, and she was not allowed to enter the US because US government personally interfered no other way, clearly!