Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations

[ruga]

Vanessa must truly be in a very complicated situation right now. She spent so much time not being considered a serious medal contender and now she finally has a chance to win medals at major competitions. Yet her partner has done something inexcusable. It would be a powerful statement if she left him, but at the same time, he hasn't even been tried so not officially a criminal and she has spent a lot of time and money to get where she is now. It would be hard for her to find a fitting partner and get to the same results that she has got recently and achieve a high place in Bejing, not to mention that Vanessa is likely to end her career in a few years so Milan is probably not an option either.

 

[elbkup]

.^^^This!!

 

[rosy14]

In a couple o weeks USNationals will start. Still nothing from SafeSport regarding Fontana, Zimmermann and the other coach, Vinny ?

 

[Tonichelle]

But I would think that she would like to separate herself from her partner, in order not to get tainted herself for lack of character? She is in a very uncomfortable position no doubt. Hope she escapes unscathed.

It's very easy to see things very black and white from the outside. From the inside where she is, it's a confusing and emotional time. Speaking from experience there's no way to know which way is up. You find out someone you trust implictly isn't who you thought they were or who they should be. Yeah, monday morning quarterbacking says run away now, but there's a lot of emotional baggage to go through.

I have a pedophile in my immediate family. It's been a hellish 10 years of fall out. I'm very black and white about the case (I personally have no contact with them now) but there's still the emotions and family matters... his closest friends have also had a very difficult time sorting it out. You try to piece together just what you missed and how. And before it all came to light and it was "just" allegations you prayed it wasn't true. And all the while on the outside you have to pretend nothing is different. And that's in a situation where no one is in the public eye. I feel for her. I've been there. It. Freaking. Sucks.

 

[Moxiejan]

It is indeed odd to me that if these photos did come from a verified Instagram account, that Instagram has not closed the account. It would appear to be a violation of their terms of service.

It’s possible that Morgan has had more than one IG account & that the one linked to the photos has been closed.

 

[Amei]

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but based on what I've read - all Cipres did was send a certain type of picture, right? The cover-up is all the coaches.

It is a little odd to see Morgen on Aliona Korstornaia’s instagram story like nothing is going on.

In a way I’m happy that Vanessa isn’t being punished due to something she didn’t do but I feel like I’d be better for everyone and himself if he just took a break until this can be resolved.

I feel like it was reported that there was a criminal investigation. Usually they act much quicker when children are involved right?

Does anyone know what ISU regulations are concerning athlete behavior? Based on what I've read of this situation: there's no criminal investigation because the girl didn't want to cooperate with a police investigation so they aren't pursuing one without a complaint from her, and just doing some basic googling on non-rape sexual crimes seem to have a 3 year or less statute of limitations so considering the alleged incident occurred in 2017 it seems there's a very small window for anything criminal to be filed (if my Google searches are correct). And Safesport is a US organization, Cipres is a French athlete so what exactly can Safesport do to him?

Unless there's something the ISU can do to him - he's probably acting like there's nothing wrong because there's not much this Safesport investigation can really do to him.

 

[Sugar Coated]

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but based on what I've read - all Cipres did was send a certain type of picture, right? The cover-up is all the coaches.



Does anyone know what ISU regulations are concerning athlete behavior? Based on what I've read of this situation: there's no criminal investigation because the girl didn't want to cooperate with a police investigation so they aren't pursuing one without a complaint from her, and just doing some basic googling on non-rape sexual crimes seem to have a 3 year or less statute of limitations so considering the alleged incident occurred in 2017 it seems there's a very small window for anything criminal to be filed (if my Google searches are correct). And Safesport is a US organization, Cipres is a French athlete so what exactly can Safesport do to him?

Unless there's something the ISU can do to him - he's probably acting like there's nothing wrong because there's not much this Safesport investigation can really do to him.

Unfortunately I think you are right. I mean, Safesport can definitely prevent him from working with children or training around children in the US. But I don't think this will impact his ability to compete via the ISU. I'm assuming they don't have the means for their own investigations and rely on convictions from a court of law. If there are no formal legal findings its hard to argue for discipline within ISU. I'm sure if an American athlete was facing charges abroad we'd want them to have proper due process from a court of law before being suspended or prevented from competition. And Safesport isn't really meant to "convict" but rather determine whether children are at risk and then remove that risk.

 

[Colonel Green]

Based on what I've read of this situation: there's no criminal investigation because the girl didn't want to cooperate with a police investigation so they aren't pursuing one without a complaint from her

My understanding is that there is a criminal investigation underway; it was only the initial one that foundered after the girl didn't want to cooperate.

 

[Moxiejan]

Ultimately, the ones likely to be most affected are John & Sylvia, who as U.S.-based coaches certainly would be subject to action by Safesport. And USFSA could decide to limit their coaching/team credentials for competitions both in the U.S. and internationally.

 

[Skater Boy]

This is kind of spot the legal issue approach and the rules are not known to me fully at law - civilling, criminally, human rights and or Safesport.

Criminally Morgan and Vinny would appear to have most evidence from what we have heard in respect to criminal behaviour. John and Silvia are more iffy as I am not sure if they tried to prevent/stop/influence the 13 yo to go to Safesport. Now if they tried to prevent them from going to the police that might be another issue. Morgan's criminal responsiblitiy coudl vary depending what if anything is found. If he is found to be coaching the girl that ups the ante in respect to power over the young person. Distributing porn/nude photos depending on the law and what can be proving like Ihave suggested ranges from an indecent act to some kind of sexual violation involving a minor - corrupting a minor, illicting or inviting sexual contact etc - those are more serious. Again, not to sound like broke record intent/mens rea is also significnat - what can be proven. And then there is the truth. I suspect, or logically deduce from what I can see that Morgan may have been not thinking and just thought it was something silly, prankish, frattish, and did not think of the criminality. The thought of a teen seeing a nude person may have been seen at the time like teens farting or whatever. While it isn't and i cannot condone what he did; it does have different criminal effects. Again, we do not know the laws in this j urisdiction or what charges, if any are laid,

in resepct to the USA nationals we must not forget Vinny - the unknown who is now "famous". He also has a lot to lose. As he was the coach and from what I can see at the very least is party to the crime and equally culpable as Morgan or at least contrbitory resposnible.

But again, I go back so sad how this has affected innocent victims no . 1 the 13 year old, her family friends and undoubtedly her skating partner if she was in paris and dance to Vanessa et al.

Skaters coached by Vinny, Silvia, John and Morgan also could be affected - losing their coach especially if there is a big competition affected.

I really need to stop looking at Morgan's instagram account. I must stop judging him. Just because he seems to have a lot of provocative poses, shirtless or undone shirts etc I/we must not fall into the trap such as blaming the 13 yo as some have suggested because she was pretty or dressed a certain way.

I cannot accept the notion boys will be boys. Still I j ust don't want to believe what has happened.

 

[karne]

New Brennan article.

Things we learned:

1. Gordie Zimmermann, who owns the rink, is flat evil and thinks the thirteen year old girl is dangerous. Yep, you read that right. Someone should not be allowed around kids anymore.

2. Mark Ladwig is disappointing.

3. There is a "veteran male skater" who said he can't understand the fuss about Ashley because "she wasn't raped". I really need to know who this was.

4. Ashley remains awesome.


Meanwhile, proving their arrogance and deafness, both Morgan and Cipres posted an instagram story stating "you guys want to see us as European Champions again? guess what we'll be back with more than this title soon".

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Meanwhile, proving their arrogance and deafness, both Morgan and Cipres posted an instagram story stating "you guys want to see us as European Champions again? guess what we'll be back with more than this title soon".

Not "their" arrogance; it's his alone. Morgan has done nothing wrong.

 

[el henry]

As time goes on I am less and less impressed by Christine Brennan. This serious and disturbing issue deserves better.

1. Three quarters of this story is no new reporting and no new news. She repeats whole cloth her previous interview with Ashley and her previous articles on John Coughlin. Sometimes news articles do offer background for folks “new to the story”, but this is literally reprinting previous stories.

2. The only new quotes I saw were those of what Mark Ladwig said reported by four anonymous sources. Who didn’t want to be quoted because of the “sensitivity”? Of what? There is no new news, no naming of the girl, God forbid, just Ladwig’s reaction. If the only way Brennan could obtain these quotes is by promising these people anonymity, I think even less of her reporting skills.

From the screaming headline, I was expecting more actual news:disapp:

 

[Tavi...]

As time goes on I am less and less impressed by Christine Brennan. This serious and disturbing issue deserves better.

1. Three quarters of this story is no new reporting and no new news. She repeats whole cloth her previous interview with Ashley and her previous articles on John Coughlin. Sometimes news articles do offer background for folks “new to the story”, but this is literally reprinting previous stories.

2. The only new quotes I saw were those of what Mark Ladwig said reported by four anonymous sources. Who didn’t want to be quoted because of the “sensitivity”? Of what? There is no new news, no naming of the girl, God forbid, just Ladwig’s reaction. If the only way Brennan could obtain these quotes is by promising these people anonymity, I think even less of her reporting skills.

From the screaming headline, I was expecting more actual news:disapp:

I think the quotes from Zimmerman about the girl being dangerous and needing supervision and the anonymous male skater’s comments reacting to Ashley (she wasn’t raped) are also new, and quite disturbing.

 

[el henry]

I think the quotes from Zimmerman about the girl being dangerous and needing supervision and the anonymous male skater’s comments reacting to Ashley (she wasn’t raped) are also new, and quite disturbing.

You are right about Zimmerman quotes, and somehow number 3. was left off my post. I need to fire my proofreader

3. Gordie Zimmerman sounds like he should not be in charge of anything, anywhere and *that* should be the focus of the story. Who is this guy and what was he doing/not doing while this was happening?

I thought I’d heard that quote from Ashley before, but I could be confused I do think it’s unfair of Ashley to drop it without a name, how can anyone do anything or react? :scratch:

 

[karne]

Not "their" arrogance; it's his alone. Morgan has done nothing wrong.

I disagree. At this stage I find it harder and harder to believe she knew nothing; and at any rate, her posting on her instagram - because she did, make no mistake - is incredibly tone-deaf. She should be keeping her head down.

2. The only new quotes I saw were those of what Mark Ladwig said reported by four anonymous sources. Who didn’t want to be quoted because of the “sensitivity”? Of what?

I do think it’s unfair of Ashley to drop it without a name, how can anyone do anything or react? :scratch:

Oh, come on, el henry, aren't you supposed to be a legal type? It should be blatantly obvious to you why this has occurred. I can see why this is how it is, and I'm no legal eagle.

Christine Brennan doesn't want the paper to get sued. It's really that simple, and it's something very important, since she's apparently the only figure skating journalist with enough guts and fortitude to continue going after this issue. If it means hearing unpalatable truths then so be it.

I do want to know who the veteran male skater is so I can be sure I do not have any positive thoughts about him next weekend at Nationals. But you know exactly why he wouldn't talk without anonymity - because he knows that he would be called out on that in an instant and his own funding, not to mention any kind of other support, would likely be withdrawn for his awful attitude.

Also, a male skater with that attitude probably has had interactions worth digging deeper into...

 

[gkelly]

Not "their" arrogance; it's his alone. Morgan has done nothing wrong.

Morgan Cipres is one person.

His pair partner's name is Vanessa James.

 

[Noxchild]

I guess Vanessa is staying with Morgan and their coaches after all. I realise it might mean the end of her competitive career if she left them, but come on. How is this any better. Her partner is a freaking sexual predator. This will never leave them, and I sincerely hope Morgan is never allowed to skate on ISU ice again. Just disappointing.

 

[Tavi...]

You are right about Zimmerman quotes, and somehow number 3. was left off my post. I need to fire my proofreader

3. Gordie Zimmerman sounds like he should not be in charge of anything, anywhere and *that* should be the focus of the story. Who is this guy and what was he doing/not doing while this was happening?

I thought I’d heard that quote from Ashley before, but I could be confused I do think it’s unfair of Ashley to drop it without a name, how can anyone do anything or react? :scratch:

I actually think Brennan is telling a compelling story, albeit one that’s being revealed very slowly. The facade of skating is slowly disintegrating, isn’t it? A year ago, people were shocked to hear that a very visible former national champion had allegedly engaged in sexual misconduct. Now we’re realizing that other high profile athletes, respected coaches, and rink owners may have engaged in unrelated behavior ranging from criminal to unethical. A respected ISU athlete rep has made comments that were ill advised at best, and the anonymous athlete’s comment about Ashley exposes in plain English the kind of ignorance and backward thinking that has allowed this kind of bad behavior to fester in darkness. I do wonder where Brennan’s stories will lead us next. What did Shakespeare say? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. I think Brennan is very slowly exposing the rot.

 

[ribbit]

I think the quotes from Zimmerman about the girl being dangerous and needing supervision and the anonymous male skater’s comments reacting to Ashley (she wasn’t raped) are also new, and quite disturbing.

You are right about Zimmerman quotes, and somehow number 3. was left off my post. I need to fire my proofreader

3. Gordie Zimmerman sounds like he should not be in charge of anything, anywhere and *that* should be the focus of the story. Who is this guy and what was he doing/not doing while this was happening?

I thought I’d heard that quote from Ashley before, but I could be confused I do think it’s unfair of Ashley to drop it without a name, how can anyone do anything or react? :scratch:

It's late at night, so I may be misunderstanding you or completely missing something in the article. But if I understood correctly, the anonymous skater who made that disturbing comment about Ashley's assault made it directly to USA TODAY. It isn't clear to me whether he made it to Brennan or to another USA TODAY journalist or employee, but it isn't attributed to Ashley. Like karne, I hope I'm not cheering him on at Nationals next week...at least I'm totally confident that cheering for our beloved Jason is safe!