2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

[skylark]

Ashley is really tall for a pairs girl. She and Tim took a long time to hone those elements and be completely at ease with each other. Okay their lifts are not top-class but they have made such progress over the last few years. This year they look more secure than they've ever been.

Americans are often too quick to embrace a new thing and discard something good.

Ashley and Tim had a rough season this year. So has every U.S. champion pair since 2014. It's a lot of pressure to be the gold medalist being chased. No pair has repeated as US champions in consecutive years since 2014; that includes Alexa and Chris. Ashley and Tim have accomplished so much, and this is still only their 4th season together. They have a strong connection and a mutual vision for their skating. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine Tim breaking with Ashley unless she volunteered it, and I think she's too fierce and passionate about pairs skating to do so.

So many people, and Alexa herself, are thinking in terms of 2022. But she's got more time than that, if she really wants to fulfill her potential. Look at Aljona, look at Zoe Jones.

 

[Makemi]

So what all this discussion is telling me is that there are (currently) no viable partners for Alexa (at least, so long as she is set on Beijing). I suppose the most we can do is see at the end of the season who might be retiring and go from there.

I recall that the main complaint about US pairs a while back was that they didn't stick together long enough to really gel and develop their elements. So in that sense I really don't want to see any of our current pairs break up just for the sake of Alexa.

Cain-Gribble/LeDuc and Calalang/Johnson are both unique pairs that have momentum right now and are finally hitting their stride. Denny/Fraizer have been together almost forever (I read in a fanzone article back in January that they are childhood friends and started on roller skates together) and I get the feeling that they'll end their careers together (That Lion King FS is everything, I've lost count how many times I've re-watched it). Kayne/O'shea have also been together a long time I also don't see them parting (that said I'm not huge fans of their music choices...why Carmen, why...) .

 

[skylark]

[QUOTE=Makemi
I recall that the main complaint about US pairs a while back was that they didn't stick together long enough to really gel and develop their elements. So in that sense I really don't want to see any of our current pairs break up just for the sake of Alexa.


@This.:agree:

It's astonishing how quickly people forget. It was the main complaint about US pairs, and it's exactly why USFS put some effort into developing the new pairs of Cain/Leduc and Stellato/Bartholomay. Now we've got actual depth in pairs.

 

[skylark]

Cain-Gribble/LeDuc and Calalang/Johnson are both unique pairs that have momentum right now and are finally hitting their stride. .

@And this. :agree:

 

[gordana]

So many people, and Alexa herself, are thinking in terms of 2022. But she's got more time than that, if she really wants to fulfill her potential. Look at Aljona, look at Zoe Jones.

Zoe Jones had about 20 years break in competitive career. And Aljona is such a true passionate skater that hardly ever anynone can repeat. The Knierims didn't endure training under her.

 

[el henry]

Alexa clarified in he IG stories that she was in Nashville this weekend for US pairs “Team Up” Camp as a helper, not a participant (laughing emoji).

But I realize devoted fans will continue with “what if’s”, that’s what we do

 

[skylark]

Zoe Jones had about 20 years break in competitive career. And Aljona is such a true passionate skater that hardly ever anynone can repeat. The Knierims didn't endure training under her.

You're right on all 3 counts! No, I was reading up yesterday on what other skaters have said about starting out with a new partner, and the Russian skaters in particular were saying that you need four years. Which of course is what Aljona had with Bruno, and what Tatiana and Maxim had before the Olympics. And as I re-thought everything people have been saying about Alexa (including me) and what Alexa herself has said, it seems clear that she just wants another shot at Olympics, specifically 2022.

I just think the Russians are smart about pairs! (Duh!) And though you and I have posted back and forth before, gordana, I only just now noticed the Russian flag under your name!

 

[Olympic]

If the USA will only have 1 pairs spot at the Olympics and assuming that Alexa finds a quality partner really soon.. that means that it doesn't matter. Alexa and her new partner will finish below the top ten at worlds or so will the other US team whoever it could be and they still will not attain those two spots at the Olympics? Then I think the assumption that Alexa is an elite pair skater is incorrect. If she is the best we have, and she poaches a partner from another team for Worlds and they still don't get two spots for the Olympics? hmm.

I doubt the US will have 1 spot for 2022. CG/L and C/J are seeded 7th and 8th going into 2020 Sr. Worlds and we have a total of 4 pairs (post Knierims would also include D/F and K/O) that could easily attain top 10 at Worlds in the foreseeable future. I don't see any of them dropping precipitously. Then L/M and S/T have ended this past season on high notes: L/M I believe achieved a PB at Challenge Cup, and P/S at Nationals showed they moved up to the next level. Also, we a Jr. Pair or two with potential like Balazs / Nagy and TJ +partner.

US pairs as a group have more depth than I've seen in decades.

 

[skylark]

I doubt the US will have 1 spot for 2022. CG/L and C/J are seeded 7th and 8th going into 2020 Sr. Worlds and we have a total of 4 pairs (post Knierims would also include D/F and K/O) that could easily attain top 10 at Worlds in the foreseeable future. I don't see any of them dropping precipitously. Then L/M and S/T have ended this past season on high notes: L/M I believe achieved a PB at Challenge Cup, and P/S at Nationals showed they moved up to the next level. Also, we a Jr. Pair or two with potential like Balazs / Nagy and TJ +partner.

US pairs as a group have more depth than I've seen in decades.

I think when you read the whole conversation, and the post Spiralgraph was responding to, you may agree that Spiralgraph was making the same points you did ... with an ironic tone. Or something like that. Maybe"ironic" isn't exactly right. (Gulp) .. maybe I should retreat and let Spiralgraph answer.

But I love your answer anyway. You made a succinct summary. What we need to do now is not sell our other great pairs short.

 

[happycamper2554]

Balaz Nagy has to turn senior next season

 

[skylark]

I doubt the US will have 1 spot for 2022. CG/L and C/J are seeded 7th and 8th going into 2020 Sr. Worlds and we have a total of 4 pairs (post Knierims would also include D/F and K/O) that could easily attain top 10 at Worlds in the foreseeable future.

This is the most exciting part of your post for me!!! Like, when has that ever happened with our two pairs going to Worlds? :hap93:

I'm off to see if I can find a video of Lu/Mitrofanov at Challengers. I've been loving them for a couple of years now.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I think when you read the whole conversation, and the post Spiralgraph was responding to, you may agree that Spiralgraph was making the same points you did ... with an ironic tone. Or something like that. Maybe"ironic" isn't exactly right. (Gulp) .. maybe I should retreat and let Spiralgraph answer.

But I love your answer anyway. You made a succinct summary. What we need to do now is not sell our other great pairs short.

Exactly! Thank you skylark. I was responding to lucyrose's post a page back. She was almost panicking about Alexa and the pairs problems in the USA. I'm of the opinion that's it's better not to break up American teams just to suit one particular skater who hasn't been at worlds in a couple of seasons. I think the USA WILL have two spots at the Olympics and that our teams as a whole are improving but maybe at a snail's pace. I'm not going to panic I'm taking a calm wait and see attitude with a bit of hope.

 

[skylark]

Exactly! Thank you skylark. I was responding to lucyrose's post a page back. She was almost panicking about Alexa and the pairs problems in the USA. I'm of the opinion that's it's better not to break up American teams just to suit one particular skater who hasn't been at worlds in a couple of seasons. I think the USA WILL have two spots at the Olympics and that our teams as a whole are improving but maybe at a snail's pace. I'm not going to panic I'm taking a calm wait and see attitude with a bit of hope.

I could not agree more with your whole post. :yes2:

 

[moonvine]

I doubt the US will have 1 spot for 2022. CG/L and C/J are seeded 7th and 8th going into 2020 Sr. Worlds and we have a total of 4 pairs (post Knierims would also include D/F and K/O) that could easily attain top 10 at Worlds in the foreseeable future. I don't see any of them dropping precipitously. Then L/M and S/T have ended this past season on high notes: L/M I believe achieved a PB at Challenge Cup, and P/S at Nationals showed they moved up to the next level. Also, we a Jr. Pair or two with potential like Balazs / Nagy and TJ +partner.

US pairs as a group have more depth than I've seen in decades.

IIRC, which I may not, we technically qualified for 2 spots in the last Olympics, but only x number were allowed and we would have been x + 1.

 

[lucyrose]

I really hope you are all right and I'm crazy and overreacting.

I've yet to see any real growth with our current pairs (except Jessica and Brian). Ashley is too tall and that's not changing and can't seem to land things. Tarah can barely do a triple. Haven does a full rotation on ice with her double axel. These ladies' skating skills left the chat a long time ago or never showed up. I don't really get what everyone is holding on to so tightly with our current pairs but yeah, lets just keep everything the way it is and continue our mediocre path forward :disapp:

 

[skylark]

^^ I think US Pairs are on a dynamic, purposeful path forward and I don't think there's anything mediocre about it.

I'm very happy that there are others besides me who feel calm and relatively optimistic. Facts and scores give reason for optimism. But the truth is, no one knows what's going to happen. We'll have to wait to find out how things are going to pan out. Along the way, everyone will express their opinions, voice their fears, disappointments, joys and hopes.

Speaking for myself ... my enjoyment of pairs skating is partly about great technique and skills, but certainly that's not all of it for me. And it's not all about results, medals, and placements. So my prognosis is happier. I know there are things I'm going to enjoy and be surprised about. Performance, passion, connection, the way pairs infuse their personality and character into their skates, that's all equally interesting, and always evolving, with past, current and future skaters.

 

[noskates]

I kind of have to agree that our lady pairs folk leave a lot to be desired when it comes to the individual jumps. I realize that working on individual skills is probably challenging when there are so many things to work on as a pair, but with the exception of Jessica they're ALL challenged. I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic at this point in time - just sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I've never been much of a fan of Ashley and Tim because their lack of height difference isn't pleasing to me. I think they look more awkward than graceful - but that's personal preference. Her bodysuits just tend to accentuate that. Brian and Jessica give me hope.

 

[moonvine]

I really hope you are all right and I'm crazy and overreacting.

I've yet to see any real growth with our current pairs (except Jessica and Brian). Ashley is too tall and that's not changing and can't seem to land things. Tarah can barely do a triple. Haven does a full rotation on ice with her double axel. These ladies' skating skills left the chat a long time ago or never showed up. I don't really get what everyone is holding on to so tightly with our current pairs but yeah, lets just keep everything the way it is and continue our mediocre path forward :disapp:

If you are crazy and overreacting, so am I. Alexa and Chris were very, very special - together. I wonder if all these pairs would benefit from doing some training with Raf (not necessarily jumping) Alexa was talking about how she and Chris went to his advanced stroking class with Mariah and etc and realized how very far behind they were. Not to include the jumps.

 

[Skater Boy]

Americans are often too quick to embrace a new thing and discard something good.

Ashley and Tim had a rough season this year. So has every U.S. champion pair since 2014. It's a lot of pressure to be the gold medalist being chased. No pair has repeated as US champions in consecutive years since 2014; that includes Alexa and Chris. Ashley and Tim have accomplished so much, and this is still only their 4th season together. They have a strong connection and a mutual vision for their skating. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine Tim breaking with Ashley unless she volunteered it, and I think she's too fierce and passionate about pairs skating to do so.

So many people, and Alexa herself, are thinking in terms of 2022. But she's got more time than that, if she really wants to fulfill her potential. Look at Aljona, look at Zoe Jones.

Well you forget. There is the issue she may want children and that is harder in your 30's. Then there is that six foot tall hurdle. She may want to consider her marriage. There is money too and future employment. With skating not worth as much in respect to shows she had better have some money saved or something. Aliona was great but Zoe is showing signs of age issues so maybe not the best example. What about education; skating is no longer the cash cow it once might have been.

 

[skylark]

Well you forget. There is the issue she may want children and that is harder in your 30's. Then there is that six foot tall hurdle. She may want to consider her marriage. There is money too and future employment. With skating not worth as much in respect to shows she had better have some money saved or something. Aliona was great but Zoe is showing signs of age issues so maybe not the best example. What about education; skating is no longer the cash cow it once might have been.

No, I haven't forgotten any of that. It's just that over the last week, my "thinking out loud" here has evolved. I was initially so relieved for Chris that I sort of embraced Alexa's quest for a new partner, and she said she's aiming for 2022 and implied that that will be it. But as we've all thought it through here and elsewhere, I realized the implications for everyone. If Alexa wants to try for 2022 Beijing then retire (have a baby, skate with Chris in shows, coach) then I think the best option is to get a partner who's young enough to benefit from the partnership, get some maturity and leaps forward in skills, and then have plenty of time to still pursue his pairs goals. I'm back to TJ Nyman. He's skated pairs for a few years now.

But I'm thinking Alexa has time, because it usually takes time. Even Aljona had to have four years with Bruno to achieve her results.