2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Thank you duff for such an interesting and thoughtful post. Your comment that Adalina may have had a different and better life if she wants silver instead of gold is an intriguing thought. But she got the gold and then her campaign against her that was epic from a social media point of you. It changed her life. Probably made her fear everything Terrible.

Yes Yulia was the golden girl for the federation. But even with that I enjoyed these two Russian girls rivalry and they seem to like each other as rivals and in their life after careers. I still find it odd that some dirty pool was played against Adelina in the team event in Sochi and that she was left out of the short program and that never should’ve happened.

 

[SkateSkates]

Thank you duff for such an interesting and thoughtful post. Your comment that Adalina may have had a different and better life if she wants silver instead of gold is an intriguing thought. But she got the gold and then her campaign against her that was epic from a social media point of you. It changed her life. Probably made her fear everything Terrible.

Yes Yulia was the golden girl for the federation. But even with that I enjoyed these two Russian girls rivalry and they seem to like each other as rivals and in their life after careers. I still find it odd that some dirty pool was played against Adelina in the team event in Sochi and that she was left out of the short program and that never should’ve happened.

I can see why they left her out of the SP for the team event. The SP counts in the team event so much more than the LP since there are 10 teams instead of 5, so risking someone who is known for their inconsistency could’ve potentially put them in a hole that would’ve been hard to get out of. Adelina was very inconsistent that season and throughout her career, although she almost always was able to peak for Russian Nationals, which was a big advantage for her always making the team. Yulia beat her at Euros and GPF, so she earned that spot. Plus, they could only substitute across 2 disciplines - obviously they were gonna sub out V/T, probably the heaviest favorites for Gold, since the pairs event was so soon after the team event. I guess an argument could’ve been made to only have 1 dance team and sub out Yulia for Adelina, but Adelina was not known for her LP consistency at all, so that wouldn’t really make sense. I understand why that did what they did, and it ended up lighting a fire under her to prove the decision makers wrong and have the skates of her life in the individual event. It’s too bad the judging played out the way it did - she would’ve been a deserving bronze medalist if PCS and GOE hadn’t gotten so out of hand.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Thank you duff for such an interesting and thoughtful post. Your comment that Adalina may have had a different and better life if she wants silver instead of gold is an intriguing thought. But she got the gold and then her campaign against her that was epic from a social media point of you. It changed her life. Probably made her fear everything Terrible.

Yes Yulia was the golden girl for the federation. But even with that I enjoyed these two Russian girls rivalry and they seem to like each other as rivals and in their life after careers. I still find it odd that some dirty pool was played against Adelina in the team event in Sochi and that she was left out of the short program and that never should’ve happened.

What she went through is unacceptable. Poor girl, I can only imagine the sort of depression and dark place she might have been through. Rejection is one of the main components to mental disorders - we even test it with rats, by making them feel rejected we produce a depression effect and then study the effect of antidepressants. I wonder if she’s doing fine now. For much less, I’ve seen people getting seriously traumatized, imagine having the world against you. I would probably legally switch my name and move to a very remote place, where no one would have heard of me, to have a fresh start. I’m dramatic.

 

[Scott512]

I can see why they left her out of the SP for the team event. The SP counts in the team event so much more than the LP since there are 10 teams instead of 5, so risking someone who is known for their inconsistency could’ve potentially put them in a hole that would’ve been hard to get out of. Adelina was very inconsistent that season and throughout her career, although she almost always was able to peak for Russian Nationals, which was a big advantage for her always making the team. Yulia beat her at Euros and GPF, so she earned that spot. Plus, they could only substitute across 2 disciplines - obviously they were gonna sub out V/T, probably the heaviest favorites for Gold, since the pairs event was so soon after the team event. I guess an argument could’ve been made to only have 1 dance team and sub out Yulia for Adelina, but Adelina was not known for her LP consistency at all, so that wouldn’t really make sense. I understand why that did what they did, and it ended up lighting a fire under her to prove the decision makers wrong and have the skates of her life in the individual event. It’s too bad the judging played out the way it did - she would’ve been a deserving bronze medalist if PCS and GOE hadn’t gotten so out of hand.

Russia clearly had the best team going into the Timo Werner Adelina would not of hurt their chances at all. And as it turned out Julia having to do to skates caused her to be worn out for the medal round of the ladies discipline.

What she went through is unacceptable. Poor girl, I can only imagine the sort of depression and dark place she might have been through. Rejection is one of the main components to mental disorders - we even test it with rats, by making them feel rejected we produce a depression effect and then study the effect of antidepressants. I wonder if she’s doing fine now. For much less, I’ve seen people getting seriously traumatized, imagine having the world against you. I would probably legally switch my name and move to a very remote place, where no one would have heard of me, to have a fresh start. I’m dramatic.

I’m sure she went through a lot including depression but I hope Adelina is smiling now. She’s had neck surgery in the last six months so that’s another tough thing she has to get through. The skaters really pay the price physically. And mentally.

 

[Jontor]

Adelina's perfomance was clearly superior, she had outstanding skating skills and a quite difficult layout. And that is what paved the way to the victory

Let's take a look at some of the scores to see what really happened in the free.

Jumps:
Sotnikova 53,40
Kim 50,07
Kostner 47,85
Sotnikova had the most difficult layout here and it shows. People argue that she had a stepout in her 3 jump combo, and yes she had, and yes she payed dearly for it. She had negative GOE on that combination and lost almost 3 points. Still, she was way ahead of the others.

Spins:
Sotnikova 14,87
Kim 11,68
Kostner 11,99
Again, Sotnikova outshines the other two. Her one-handed Biellmann and her Spiderweb-spin are both amazing. Kim and Kostner are both rather bland spinners and were judged very generously in my opinion.

PCS:
Sotnikova 74,41
Kim 74,50
Kostner 73,77
They were scored very closely here. There is really nothing in it. And I guess it is here that people argue that both Kim and Kostner should be way ahead of Sotnikova. I disagree. You can't take away Sotnikova's amazing skating skills and transitions. Performance/Composition/Interpretation is a matter of taste, but I really do think that Sotnikova sold her program brilliantly.

Next in line on PCS was Lipnitskaya who scored 70,06 with a fall. Even if you lower Sotnikova's PCS to Lipnitskaya's level, Adelina still would have won. (Final score Sotnikova 224,59 Kim 219,11 Kostner 216,73). As always, technical difficulty is rewarded, that is how the scoring system works. People seem to forget that.

So my conclusion is that Adelina was a very well deserved Olympic Champion.

 

[nussnacker]

I didn’t want to raise a debate about Sochi.
I just wanted to show appreciation towards Adelina, just from a personal standpoint without talking about scores.
Unlike nowadays, back in the days being a great jumper AND a great spinner wasn’t all that common, rare skaters had both, but Adelina certainly was one of them.
Her transition into 2A in her short is quite unique and beautiful, the jump itself is huge, a +3 in my opinion. Unique positions in her spins deserve a praise too, and her illusion spin is one of the best ones I’ve seen.
Her speed and skating skills never really got appreciated.

So Adelina might not be a perfect skater, but she surely isn’t a bad one, she had a lot of qualities she never really got credit for.

 

[Arbitrary]

I think Carolina should have won. She has perfect technique as well and did not make any mistakes. Then Yuna and then Gracie. Adelina could be forth with her crazy pre-rotations, underrotations and at least two step ups.

I think Slutskaya should have won SLC. I'm good on thinking...

And definetely Hadring should have gold in 1994. Absolutely.

 

[micks]

Poor? Who made her fly to Japan in the midst of a pandemic, while all the other skaters sat and waited?

This is not true. Many skaters flew from one country to another one or did domestic flight.

 

[Shayuki]

Talking about Sochi 2014 again? Interesting topic. Let's see, when it comes to free skates:

In terms of jumping layout, Sotnikova's was much stronger than either Yuna's or Kostner's. She did 7 triples and 2 2As. Yuna did only 6 triples and Kostner didn't do a second 2A, also Kostner repeated only 3T and 3S, while Sotnikova did both 3Lz and 3F. Kostner did not even perform a single 3+3 combo, and had massively stalked entries into just about every jump. Probably should have called Sotnikova's +3T UR on the first combo, though.

In terms of skating skills, Yuna was well ahead of everyone else. IMO Kostner's skating skills have been very overrated, and watching Sochi 2014 free skates now, she doesn't IMO come even close to Yuna. Extremely dry crossovers and zero transitions. Step sequence also far weaker than Yuna's to me. Yuna's was on a completely different level, but Yuna did seem to cheat on at least one turn, which should cost a level(And it did). Now, when it comes to Sotnikova, I think her skating skills were quite good overall. Certainly more involved than Kostner, better transitions than Yuna's but she overall doesn't come even close to her. The one thing though, IMO her step sequence was a total mess there. I don't get how that can possibly be lvl 4 with massive GOE. She totally 3-turn cheated at least two steps quite clearly and that's at least a level reduction. Probably 2 levels in this case, to be honest.

When it comes to spins, Sotnikova was the best... very clearly. No contest whatsoever.

Transitions, Sotnikova the best quite easily. Kostner worst very very easily.

In terms of performing, I think Sotnikova's overall was very strong, actually. At least until the step sequence. Not my type of performing at all, to be sure, but I think it was quite good. Then I don't get what she started doing after the step sequence begun, I guess she just couldn't hold her joy due to skating her first clean-ish skate of her career. Yuna's performing I guess one could call mature, but I felt it was quite empty, definitely nothing like 2010 where I think she was absolutely incredible. Kostner's performing also was essentially nonexistent to me, apart from a couple of shrugs in between her empty skating.


So overall, I'd say Sotnikova deserved to be the first out of these three skaters, though her margin of victory should have been smaller. I think Kostner was overscored the most out of them, her PCS should have been nowhere near as high as it was.



However, the strongest free skate in Sochi 2014 was clearly by Mao Asada. It's a shame she totally bombed her short program, because with that free skate she'd have been a well-deserved winner if she just had been in contention after her short program. I also think she'd have been judged far more favorably if she actually was a victory candidate, for example her UR call isn't even close to being as clear as Sotnikova's UR was, and these IMO wouldn't have been called if she had had a chance for victory. Both Yuna and Kostner had similarly tight landings.



I think Sotnikova's situation was a little unfortunate, she probably got too much too soon. It was her only clean skate, after all. It'd too bad, too, since I think that she had quite some qualities that might have made her an interesting skater to have around. Perhaps things would have gone differently if she'd been born a day earlier, perhaps in that case she'd have been a more accepted Olympic champion as well. Although I have a feeling a lot of it is people just not understanding the difference between 6 triples vs 7 triples etc.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

I mean, Adelina’s planned layout was indeed stronger, but she had some mistakes in her jumps and her GOEs were too high. Mao had every underrotation marked, while Adelina had underrotation, two-feet landing, prerrotation and full blade assist not being marked. In terms of PCS, Yuna was still better than her, by at least 3-4 points. The thing is that Adelina having won gold made her life miserable, and the cyber-bullying she received made it look like she was a trashy skater, when we all know she wasn’t. In fact, Adelina was a great skater, full of amazing qualities, who just needed a little more polish here and there. For example, I think she was a little sloppy with her movements and wasn’t as elegant as Yuna, Yulia, Mao and Carolina. The last 4 knew how to finish their movements in a more refined way. I also think Yuna’s performance was outstanding emotionally. It brought tears to my eyes. It’s one of my favorite FS ever. Mao had the performance of the night, I also agree, it’s such a petty she got so scrutinized for the tiniest things by the judges - the lilttlest underrotations were marked, every single “mistake” was nit-picked. I just think we all have different opinions on Sochi, and maybe it’s not the best to bring it back to RL 2020-2021, as these girls aren’t even competing anymore. I’m afraid of where it can go.

 

[voolfee]

This is not true. Many skaters flew from one country to another one or did domestic flight.

Skaters flew only to their home, to their relatives. Who else flew to foreign country to train there?

 

[Pantsu]

Mao had every underrotation marked, while Adelina had underrotation, two-feet landing, prerrotation and full blade assist not being marked.

Why would you compare her to Mao and not the "queen". She had the same UR on her 3T in combo, she also had this landing https://ibb.co/5sCC2YM on her solo 3Lz, borderline downgrade
For "two-feet landing" Adelina received negative GOE from all the judges -1/-2
"Prerrotation and full blade assist" were not in the rules. You surely don't expect the judges to apply something that doesn't exist. ISU tried to introduce that part this season but failed for now

 

[Blades of Passion]

Let's take a look at some of the scores to see what really happened in the free.

Jumps:
Sotnikova 53,40
Kim 50,07
Kostner 47,85
Sotnikova had the most difficult layout here and it shows. People argue that she had a stepout in her 3 jump combo, and yes she had, and yes she payed dearly for it. She had negative GOE on that combination and lost almost 3 points. Still, she was way ahead of the others.

PCS:
Sotnikova 74,41
Kim 74,50
Kostner 73,77
They were scored very closely here. There is really nothing in it. And I guess it is here that people argue that both Kim and Kostner should be way ahead of Sotnikova. I disagree. You can't take away Sotnikova's amazing skating skills and transitions. Performance/Composition/Interpretation is a matter of taste, but I really do think that Sotnikova sold her program brilliantly.

Oh dear. Sotnikova's "amazing skating skills", really? It's funny how you left out the Step Sequences in your analysis, when Sotnikova had worse footwork and yet received undeserved Level 4 footwork calls and huge GOE in both the SP and LP, while at the same time Kim was wrongly called as only Level 3 in the LP. Also with the jumps, Sotnikova had the lutz edge issue and an underrotated 3Toe at the end of it, yet no calls on either one.

Yuna had the same UR on her 3T in combo and she also had this landing https://ibb.co/5sCC2YM on her solo 3Lz, borderline downgrade

Yuna's 3T was not UR at all...what? Her 3Lutz was nowhere close to downgrade either, it wasn't even more than 1/4 short if you look at her takeoff. You can't determine jump rotation by only looking at a landing point, and the landing point you tried to pick is not quite accurate either (or at least deceptive from that image quality and angle).

 

[Skatesocs]

I really was going to ignore this. Actually, I still will in this thread, but I'd love to participate in a "wrong olympics results" thread? There seem to be a ton, especially according to Blades of Passion.

 

[Amei]

I didn’t want to raise a debate about Sochi.

Would it be a Russian ladies thread if we didn't at some point resurrect arguments about Sochi?

 

[Skatesocs]

Would it be a Russian ladies thread if we didn't at some point resurrect arguments about Sochi?

 

[macy]

Adelina had underrotation, two-feet landing, prerrotation and full blade assist not being marked.

firstly,

secondly, they wouldn't have been marked because they are not part of the judging system.

 

[Pantsu]

Yuna's 3T was not UR at all...what? Her 3Lutz was nowhere close to downgrade either, it wasn't even more than 1/4 short if you look at her takeoff. You can't determine jump rotation by only looking at a landing point, and the landing point you tried to pick is not quite accurate either (or at least deceptive from that image quality and angle).

Since when do we have to look at the take-off to determine the < or<<. Jesus Christ, you people invent rules as you see fit for your agenda

 

[dunffvanstorn]

firstly,

secondly, they wouldn't have been marked because they are not part of the judging system.

I’m sorry, but poor takeoff should have -2 to -3 GOE according to the judging system in 2014 (+3/-3). Maybe you’re the one who’s not knowing the rules.


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[dunffvanstorn]

Since when do we have to look at the take-off to determine the < or<<. Jesus Christ, you people invent rules as you see fit for your agenda

To see where her starting point is and not count prerrotation as rotation?


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