2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

ReasonOFF said:

some of those who watched telesport channel with lipnitskaia commentary and her commentator fellow, said that yulia and he praised to gubanova, konstantinova, tsurskaya and zagitova. but about kostornaya said she was childish with juniorish skating, and after gubanova her skating were not good, and they said that she has good technical skills but not a word about her presentation. really??! about gubanova i agree otherwise she was a bit heavy on the ice. but childish and technical program from kostornaya and good programs by zagitova tsurskaya and konstatnionova? what?! i always knew she has no idea about what presantation is in figure skating. i've heard tutberidze and averbuch almost forced her to skate SL because from the beginning she hated this music and about a half-year they were playing this music during the practice. really, skater of one program with stoneface make such statements. very funny

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Kostornaia is musical, moves beautifully and with real feeling, and is technically reliable. Organic. IMO Lipnitskaia was a “paint-by-numbers” skater. Someone told her when and how to move her arms, what moments to emphasize in the music, and threw in irrelevant flexibility tricks. It all seemed plastered on, superficial, not reflecting a self except maybe with the gloomy dramatic music. Lipnitskaia was one of my least favorite world class skaters to watch in the last quad, because her movements seemed to have no connection with a person. That’s not art.

Kornaia’s specialness comes from within. This makes her mesmerizing. That’s art.

If that’s what Lipnitskaia said about Kosternaia, I hear extreme envy in her comments.

Just to keep this objective, a translation of everything Yulia and Denis said during Alena's FS:

Before FS
Y: Alena Kostornaia, Moscow
D: Second place at JGPF

After FS
D: Alena Kostornaia, jumping, flying over the ice, but, after Anastasiia Gubanova, I think you will agree Yulia, it is visible she is still very young, the jumps are better than of some seniors.
Y: Its obvious that she is still a child, but she doesnt jump as a child at all. Very strong collection of elements, everything in second half. But after Nastya, it is visible that she is still a junior. But she is still 14.
Y: The program, same as all in Eteri Tutberidze group, is very complex, has many steps. It is visible that the choreo is still not entirely smooth. This happens a lot among juniors, but she still tries doing her best, to skate, to not just jump.
Y: 3Lz, her jumps got very good height.
Y: Very good tech.
Y: In 3-3, the first jump is very well done, she did it specially for the 3T, and the second jump is higher than the first, this looks very cool. Also 3T was a rippon.
Y: 3 jumps combo, good exit, she got some + for that.
Y: Second 3-3, same here, the first jump is lower, and the second is up to the sky. Correct combination tech.
Y: Her SP, she also skated clean. Alena is from Moscow, before Eteri she trained with Marina Cherkasova and Elena Kun,.
Y: Wow, 142, almost 143.
D: Alena Kostornaia is in first place, with 216. She is happy, of course.
Y: Alena is happy.

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Now, to be objective, the "junior" was basically in comparison to Gubanova.

In my opinion, while Kostornaia is indeed outstanding for a junior, she is not at all the best artist in the world, and she looks childish at times (actually, she gives me some Tursynbayeva wibes in that regard, looking like a good little kid that learned all the hard moves and now performs them perfectly), and Gubanova is indeed better. So i dont see why all the fuss about saying it out loud.

ReasonOFF said:

I heard tutberidze and averbuch almost forced her to skate SL because from the beginning she hated this music and about a half-year they were playing this music during the practice. really, skater of one program with stoneface make such statements. very funny

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Actually, that’s not true. In many interviews from Lipnitskaya and from Tutberidze they always said that Lipnitskaya came with the idea of SL and both Tutberidze and Averbuch didn’t want her to skate to it. I am not sure what you heard and where, but Tutberidze and Averbuch had no reason to lie in those interviews.

That dialogue confirms what I said. Those remarks are born out of envy.

And how old was Lipnitskaia the year she racked up medals? Cough. Still a child.

i wish people could enjoy skaters without trying to belittle others

I don't agree with what Yulia said about little Kosto, but I don't see a problem with it either. She added nice comments and made it clear that Kosto is only 14. Nothing disrespectful there.

And in general, I think Yulia is doing a great job as a commentator

moriel said:

Now, to be objective, the "junior" was basically in comparison to Gubanova.

In my opinion, while Kostornaia is indeed outstanding for a junior, she is not at all the best artist in the world, and she looks childish at times (actually, she gives me some Tursynbayeva wibes in that regard, looking like a good little kid that learned all the hard moves and now performs them perfectly), and Gubanova is indeed better. So i dont see why all the fuss about saying it out loud.

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I agree with you ... I share similar view as you & apparently Lipnitskaya but I can accept that people may see it otherwise too. Some people here who are fixed on praising to no end of Kostornaya can't quite suck it up that there are people who are less inclined to lavish praises. Everyone may have different preferences. Instead of congratulating her on Bronze medal in her first senior nationals they just grumble ... that she lost to Sotskova etc.

Now people say that they lost respect for Lipnitskaya because she said something that they didn't like or could not agree with ... lol. Overreaction of epic proportions. You can disagree with but this kind of behaviour is baffling.

To be fair, I don’t feel Kostornaya either. That’s not saying that she isn’t a great skater on technical side, but I haven’t found the emotional connection in her skating yet. Lipnitskaya has always said things as she sees it, so if she doesn’t feel skater’s emotions, why should she pretend? Everyone has different preferences, it would be a boring world if we all liked the same. Lipnitskaya is paid to be a commentator, she is saying her opinions, but no one claims that her opinions are the only truth and the absolute truth. No need to make up how bad Lipnitskaya was as a skater, or trying to make lots of faults on her. One just need to accept that she likes different things than you do.

Gala stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCPmdGXhAk

https://ok.ru/live/442828332792

Drama much?

I love Kostornoya's skating and I think she is the best thing coming up from Russia/world skating recently. However ,I agree with Yulia on many points and when reading her actual dialogue, it was not a bashing toward Kostornoya like how some poster try to suggest at all.

hanca said:

To be fair, I don’t feel Kostornaya either. That’s not saying that she isn’t a great skater on technical side, but I haven’t found the emotional connection in her skating yet. Lipnitskaya has always said things as she sees it, so if she doesn’t feel skater’s emotions, why should she pretend? Everyone has different preferences, it would be a boring world if we all liked the same. Lipnitskaya is paid to be a commentator, she is saying her opinions, but no one claims that her opinions are the only truth and the absolute truth. No need to make up how bad Lipnitskaya was as a skater, or trying to make lots of faults on her. One just need to accept that she likes different things than you do.

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Lol...I love Kostornaya but my exact comment to watching her right after Nastya was the exact same thing as a Yulia said.

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...ls-Ladies-FS&p=1897833&viewfull=1#post1897833

The difference in presence on the ice is noticeable to me. I had already said that Alyona had only one real weakness which is a lack of character in her skating. She has amazing musicality and unlike many others is able to execute very difficult movements in rhythm to the music but her ability to bring it to life and give it passion just aren’t the same as Gubanova IMO.. Little things like acceleration and powerful strokes to increase speed and the ability to use the same power to decelerate while using the exact same powerful turns and edges to show an individual interpretation. It’s no insult to Kostornaya mind you. Both skaters are among my top few favorites to watch and have a strong connection to the music. It’s just that Gubanova has a power and passion to her interpretation that I think most seniors do not posses. I’m not at all surprised Yulia feels this way because she’s like a soul sister with me and I almost always find myself in sync with her. I don’t however think she is just making it up or playing favorites...there is reasoning behind her thinking and it’s more of a credit to Gubanova than a discredit to Kostornaya who still has some of the most sound skating abilities.

Well, that is true. Kostornayas performance is more subtle and "mysterious" and she doesnt really open up in the same way. But I still think it is a valid style of interpretation. It in my opinion is much more difficult to perform convincingly, also.

She certainly does have a musical connection for me to find, but it might feel like the choreo isnt tailor made for her if that makes sense. With more pinpointed choreo I think these concerns wouldnt exist.

Shayuki said:

Well, that is true. Kostornayas performance is more subtle and "mysterious" and she doesnt really open up in the same way. But I still think it is a valid style of interpretation. It in my opinion is much more difficult to perform convincingly, also.

She certainly does have a musical connection for me to find, but it might feel like the choreo isnt tailor made for her if that makes sense. With more pinpointed choreo I think these concerns wouldnt exist.

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I don’t think her choreography has any intention of developing and portraying a character or passion. Right now her skills are left to speak for themselves as being in time with the music and she is doing really well with it!! Is it the skater or the choreographer? Who knows...Tarakanova operates within the same system and she has a very passionate and strong character come thru in each of her programs and while her SS are quite strong they are not as strong or well utilized as Alyona IMO. It will be interesting to see if they try to develop Alyona or not considering the scores she is getting.

Too me Gubanova takes the passion and fire of Tarakanova and channels it into Alyona like Skating Skills. She doesn’t have the TES and backloaded programs but I do think a valid argument can be made for Gubanova having an edge on PCS for some fans and judges. I think it’s possible to recognize these things while still respecting and enjoying all three of the girls. I’m really starting to enjoy Tarakanova the most though...like Yulia she seems to outperform her ability thru shear heart and fire.

Interesting angle about Yulia’s comments. I never thought Yulia was the strongest at matching the music and it was not her strength...she found very unique ways to feel it though and express her programs. There are a few reasons I can see Yulia making comments about Gubanova though. For one she relates to skaters who like herself who aren’t the feds favorites. You can see it in her comments about Wakaba and JSF. Those who followed her prior to Sochi know the fed always favored Adelina at home and Yulia had to work extra hard for her early chances...she was not expected to go to Sochi. For two...sometimes we find ourselves attracted to others who posses qualities we wish we had a better hold of. Again look at her praise of Wakaba and now Gubanova. Skaters who accel in musicality and skating skills.

Don’t get me wrong though...Yulia had her strengths too and used them to her advantage and she did have a sense of musicality but it was quite unique and lost on some. That’s why those of us who loved her did so with so much passion. The skaters who can reach us can do so in many different ways. I see nothing wrong in that.

moriel said:

Now, to be objective, the "junior" was basically in comparison to Gubanova.

In my opinion, while Kostornaia is indeed outstanding for a junior, she is not at all the best artist in the world, and she looks childish at times (actually, she gives me some Tursynbayeva wibes in that regard, looking like a good little kid that learned all the hard moves and now performs them perfectly), and Gubanova is indeed better. So i dont see why all the fuss about saying it out loud.

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Am I the only one that disagrees with Yulia's sentiments? To me, Alena is MUCH more mature and senior-ready than Gubanova...

I read and re-read the translation of what Yulia said and most of it seems like Captain Obvious stuff (like all the other translations I've seen of her commentary, basically). People are upset because she said "it is visible she's still a junior"? Really? What is wrong with that, for a girl in her first international junior season?

Neither Alena nor Nastya are my cup of tea, but I do think Gubanova is clearly more expressive and musical. She's also been competing on the big stage longer. I used to find her completely expressionless...now she has learned to project. Alena will surely get there in time, but not everyone has to be on the hype train just yet. I'd rather watch Tarakanova or Trusova for now.

Spirals for Miles said:

Am I the only one that disagrees with Yulia's sentiments? To me, Alena is MUCH more mature and senior-ready than Gubanova...

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I completely disagree!! Gubanova utilizes her equally impressive Skating Skills to a much wider range of skating and interpretation. Her programs develop and swell through different states of emotion. I like both girls unlike you but to me Gubanova is the essence of polished and nuanced skating. She is much more senior ready at this point...Alyona would do just fine as a senior but if she skates after the more well rounded skaters with a bigger presence it will be more and more noticeable.

Yulia didn’t even say that she wasn’t senior ready. Her comments are very level headed and free of emotion. She knows Eteti’s system as well as anyone and saying she has a typical Eteri program based on difficult steps and transitions is not a revelation. Does she bring the music to life or does she become the music...well..that’s debatable but Yulia was not unfair or unkind. It’s possible to be a fan and still notice areas that need improvements.

Spirals for Miles said:

Am I the only one that disagrees with Yulia's sentiments? To me, Alena is MUCH more mature and senior-ready than Gubanova...

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I think the answer to your question is the posts above your post. You just chose not to listen.
No, I am sure you are not the only one, but the question is very personal. What tastes better, apples or oranges? A half of the people you ask will answer apples, the other half will say oranges. Is it possible that 50% of people are wrong? No, there just isn’t any universal truth. It is down to personal preferences.

Sam-Skwantch said:

I completely disagree!! Gubanova utilizes her equally impressive Skating Skills to a much wider range of skating and interpretation. Her programs develop and swell through different states of emotion. I like both girls unlike you but to me Gubanova is the essence of polished and nuanced skating. She is much more senior ready at this point...Alyona would do just fine as a senior but if she skates after the more well rounded skaters with a bigger presence it will be more and more noticeable.

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Skating skills? I have been a big Gubanova fan since like 2013 or 2014 but I just dont see how hers could in any world be considered equal to Kostornaia's. Only Medvedeva has better SS out of the skaters who have competed this season internationally in my opinion.

Kostornaya doesnt really have an issue with presence despite what many seem to suggest even though her interpretation is less obvious. She has demonstrated the ability to catch people's attention.

This presence cant really be explained logically so if you dont see it... Nothing I can do. The general mannerisms, perhaps? But you want to look at her at all times.

whatever