2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

el henry said:

Kiira has absolutely addressed Americans and others, although not in skating.

But it doesn’t fit in with the agenda of “oh let’s attack Kiira because she is so anti-Russian and she is so prejudiced and she is this and that”. And in order to promote that agenda, mocking Kiira. Oh well.

That does nothing to disprove her statements :disapp:

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You are right she does address Americans and others, but she seems to fixate on Eteri's students and that Russians are worse to their athletes than the others, below from the article, I bolded the important section. Add in her little interview with TSL where she starts talking about the skaters that have left Eteri that "maybe its dangerous for them to start talking about their experiences".

From the article

“Obviously, the athlete has responsibility but we never really question if there’s something wrong with the coaching. Has there been a lot of over-training? I hear from doctors about 12-year-olds in America, Finland and Sweden – and I’m sure in Russia it starts even earlier – coming to clinics with stress fractures and things which shouldn’t happen at that age. It points to the fact the training has been too much.

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She may make some good points but perhaps she should only talk about her experiences in the sport or the experiences that she has heard from other athletes, and what needs to be done in her opinion to improve it. Because singling out a group (she admits to never even speaking to Eteri before) and making inflammatory comments against an entire country makes her look like a tabloid journalist or a shock jock type speaker.

Amei said:

She may make some good points but perhaps she should only talk about her experiences in the sport or the experiences that she has heard from other athletes, and what needs to be done in her opinion to improve it. Because singling out a group (she admits to never even speaking to Eteri before) and making inflammatory comments against an entire country makes her look like a tabloid journalist or a shock jock type speaker.

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That's what I don't understand about her article. She stresses the Eteri girls, but hasn't spoken to them or Eteri, and just makes suppositions about what's going on there. She has no clue.

LiamForeman said:

That's what I don't understand about her article. She stresses the Eteri girls, but hasn't spoken to them or Eteri, and just makes suppositions about what's going on there. She has no clue.

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Now I know this has many complications in the process but you know what would be interesting?


A publicly livestreamed conversation between Kiira Korpi and Eteri Tutberidze

Again with the new replacing the old in Russia. This is simply not true. Those with quads and 3As will obviously be winning against those without in the cases of clean skates with good PCS components. Not just in Russia, but everywhere.

Those being "replaced" ie. Alina, Evgenia, Yulia, etc. have not lost the ability to do quads and 3As because they're older now. The reality is they were never able to; Alina and Evgenia are still doing all the triples they've done when they were younger. If the 3A competed against them before they were "replaced" so around 15/16, the 3A would still be winning because of their technical layout. The same way that Rika is now ahead of Satoko, the previous Japanese star. Satoko didn't have 3As when she was Rika's age.

Where does this "replacing older skaters with younger ones" even come from? The current new seniors are doing something previous skaters have never been able to do. That doesn't mean the older skaters are deliberately being replaced. Replacing would be if the coached decides to drop a skater after a certain age, refuse to teach them more difficult elements if they are ready, or prevent them from competing. That's not what we have here. Some skaters just have a greater ability; a coach isn't supposed to hold them back so they don't move ahead of others. This was seen with Sasha vs. Alena in juniors compared to now now. Sasha was ahead and Alena wasn't ready for new elements yet, and now she is and moved ahead. It's not that they're replacing each other, it's the difference of ability which is always changing. There are also hundreds of other 15/16 year old Russians that aren't doing better than older girls and only 3 that are. Why can't we just accept that some upcoming skaters have a greater ability than some older skaters instead of pushing the replacement narrative? Medals are won based on merit, not age. I don't know how this has morphed into a discussion about a replacement cycle based on age. The only cycle here is that skaters with greater ability will keeping overtaking each other. On the technical side, that means quads and 3As overtaking triples and doubles (in addition to other technical components like layouts, spins and skating skills which is why Liza with her 3As sometimes has lower TES than others without).

I also think it's unrealistic to expect a skater to be #1 for many, many years. Especially in the Russian ladies as the talent pool is so large. It is expected that eventually someone will be able to win over the leader as thousands are working towards the same goal. It wouldn't make much sense to only have 1 skater with a secret formula to winning, while everyone else who is working just as much to never get there. In a competitive environment, everyone looks at the current #1 and aims to be better. And with so many trying, there is bound to be someone who will become better. Alina was once the technical leader and everyone knew this when they were training. Now, Sasha, Alena, and Anna are ahead. I'm sure there are hundreds working to be better than them as well, and one day, someone will be. We already know of some who are working on both quads and 3As which Sasha, Alena, and Anna haven't done successfully yet. And they are not even Russian and some are older than the the Russians, so clearly it's not about nationality or age. If Alysa Liu were to one day perfect all quads and her 3As and beat the current Russian leaders, are we going to say "Eteri replaced them with a younger Alysa"? I'm sure that will be the argument if Kamila is the one doing it instead.

Kamila is so interesting to me because I don't think of her as a technical skater even though she has quads and very good tech.

Her skating is so beautiful the quads are secondary even though that quad toe is very lovely if I were to focus on it.

GP spots 2020

Since I find GP spots interesting and there was a discussion some pages earlier on who will be in the SB list when the 17/18 season is removed and 18/19 season is weighted at 70% which happenes before GP spots are calculated I did that calculation (for the top 50 or so) and came up with the following for russian ladies

3 Sherbakova
4 Trusova
6 Kostornaia (is hurt by missing JW last season)
8 Zagitova
11 Samodurova
12 Tuktamysheva
13 Medvedeva
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25 konstantinova
39 Sakhanovich
46 Sinitsyna

This means Konstantinova is not guaranteed a spot for next year and considering her poor results this season I would be surprised if she got one. Samodurova is still high in this list though and I think likely to get at least one.

I really hope Zagitova comes back in the following season. Yes, there are parts of her skating that I wish would improve, but I don’t want her to go away yet.

Random thought: every year there is a brand new Russian senior (or more than 1) who makes a big splash on the senior GP. This upcoming season I hope it’s Sinitsina and Guliakova.

MOSCOW, Mar 28 - RIA News. The Ministry of Sports of the Russian Federation decided to suspend the operation of training sports bases from March 29, 2020 until further notice.
"In order to prevent the spread of coronavirus infection COVID-19, in accordance with the decisions of the President of Russia and the Government of the Russian Federation, the Ministry of Sports of the Russian Federation decided to suspend the operation of training sports facilities from March 29, 2020 until further notice. All members of sports teams must leave the territory of the bases. At the time of stopping the work of training centers, staff wages will be saved, " said the statement of the Minister of the Russian Federation Oleg Matytsin.

It is noted that the training center "Novogorsk" is planned to be transferred to a special mode of operation, which involves the isolation of athletes, coaches, specialists and maintenance personnel in the complex. All people at the base will be tested for coronavirus and will be under the constant supervision of doctors.

“ I ask all managers, athletes, coaches, specialists to be sympathetic to all decisions made by the Ministry of Sports and other government bodies. Be extremely attentive to your health and the health of those around you during this difficult period. Follow the recommendations, approach your actions responsibly. We do everything possible within the competence of the ministry in order to minimise the risks associated with the temporary cessation of the training process. I’m sure that only together we can cope with the situation and return the country's sporting life to its usual course, " Matytsin said in a statement.
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From: https://rsport.ria.ru/20200328/1569293504.html

Now, who will be locked into isolated training regime? Soccer players, gymnasts, skaters?

Vilord said:

Since I find GP spots interesting and there was a discussion some pages earlier on who will be in the SB list when the 17/18 season is removed and 18/19 season is weighted at 70% which happenes before GP spots are calculated I did that calculation (for the top 50 or so) and came up with the following for russian ladies

3 Sherbakova
4 Trusova
6 Kostornaia (is hurt by missing JW last season)
8 Zagitova
11 Samodurova
12 Tuktamysheva
13 Medvedeva
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25 konstantinova
39 Sakhanovich
46 Sinitsyna

This means Konstantinova is not guaranteed a spot for next year and considering her poor results this season I would be surprised if she got one. Samodurova is still high in this list though and I think likely to get at least one.

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For me it's good if Samodurova still gets another shot with 2 spots next season.

She never truly bombed last season, it just was a transitional period for her and the body, it lacked some of the lightness and charm of the year before, but you can see she is still willing to fight, i think she can sort this out.

I'd say she needs more interesting programs, i'd choose a Flamenco music for her, and obviously go to the god of Flamenco for the choreo, Antonio Najarro.

Even Konstantinova can still fix it, but i'd say through the Cup of Russia events and some Challenger, there are other skaters who did better last season and deserve their chance. The whole free always looked unfinished last season, and the short was beautiful at first but they changed it so many times, i don't know exactly what happened there.

I feel like Kseniia should skate to "Les Feuilles Mortes" for her SP next season. Her SP this season shows she's capable of interpreting mature pieces of music, and honestly I feel like it would be cool to see her skating to a jazzy piece (Yulia's SP to "Les Feuilles Mortes" was absolutely stunning).

TripleAxelQueens3 said:

I feel like Kseniia should skate to "Les Feuilles Mortes" for her SP next season. Her SP this season shows she's capable of interpreting mature pieces of music, and honestly I feel like it would be cool to see her skating to a jazzy piece (Yulia's SP to "Les Feuilles Mortes" was absolutely stunning).

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We haven't heard or seen anything with Sinitsyna for several months now.

Hope she is allright, but I think the skaters and their trainers will have some idea/premonition about where they stand relative to others. If the rinks stay closed for very long, all skaters are out of shape, despite their home PE, which makes starting the new season difficult.

Vilord said:

Since I find GP spots interesting and there was a discussion some pages earlier on who will be in the SB list when the 17/18 season is removed and 18/19 season is weighted at 70% which happenes before GP spots are calculated I did that calculation (for the top 50 or so) and came up with the following for russian ladies

3 Sherbakova
4 Trusova
6 Kostornaia (is hurt by missing JW last season)
8 Zagitova
11 Samodurova
12 Tuktamysheva
13 Medvedeva
-----
25 konstantinova
39 Sakhanovich
46 Sinitsyna

This means Konstantinova is not guaranteed a spot for next year and considering her poor results this season I would be surprised if she got one. Samodurova is still high in this list though and I think likely to get at least one.

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Thanks for doing the calculation. I agree, pleasant a skater Stasya is and she is moving to a different coach so she clearly is willing to work hard but I just don't see them giving it to her. She bombed just about every competition she entered this season. Samodurova will probably get one, like Sotskova did this year and Guliakova will take Sakhanovich's spot. Now I think Sinitsyna will get assginments based on her 215 from JGP Egna?

Here is my redistribution of the spots from this season:
Alexandra Trusova - Alexandra Trusova
Alena Kostornaia - Alena Kostornaia
Anna Shcherbakova - Anna Shcherbakova
Alina Zagitova - Alina Zagitova*
Evgenia Medvedeva - Evgenia Medvedeva
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
STanislava Konstantinova - Ksenia Sinitsyna
Maria Sotskova - Sofia Samodurova
Sofia Samodurova - Viktoria Vasilieva
Serafima Sakhanovich - Anastasia Guliakova

*In the likely scenario that Alina does not participate in the GP series next season, her spots would go unlisted .The girls listed above, excluding Guliakova, are the only ones in the top 24 spots this season so I would assume they go to someone like Tarakanova (though I don't see it), Gubanova, or idk who else?

Edwin said:

We haven't heard or seen anything with Sinitsyna for several months now.

Hope she is allright, but I think the skaters and their trainers will have some idea/premonition about where they stand relative to others. If the rinks stay closed for very long, all skaters are out of shape, despite their home PE, which makes starting the new season difficult.

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I think the Panova camp isn't very active on social media lately, there's a lot of speculation that she will go to Eteri but personally I don't think so. SHe was haveing some growth struggles at jr nationals and personally I think she should've been sent to JWC instead of Maya but welp, that was that. SHe is probably working on triple axel and preparing for her first senior season. Hopefully all is well i this time of crisis, it doesn't seem like Russia is being hit as hard as some other countries so far

eterislouisvuitton said:

Thanks for doing the calculation. I agree, pleasant a skater Stasya is and she is moving to a different coach so she clearly is willing to work hard but I just don't see them giving it to her. She bombed just about every competition she entered this season. Samodurova will probably get one, like Sotskova did this year and Guliakova will take Sakhanovich's spot. Now I think Sinitsyna will get assginments based on her 215 from JGP Egna?

Here is my redistribution of the spots from this season:
Alexandra Trusova - Alexandra Trusova
Alena Kostornaia - Alena Kostornaia
Anna Shcherbakova - Anna Shcherbakova
Alina Zagitova - Alina Zagitova*
Evgenia Medvedeva - Evgenia Medvedeva
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
STanislava Konstantinova - Ksenia Sinitsyna
Maria Sotskova - Sofia Samodurova
Sofia Samodurova - Viktoria Vasilieva
Serafima Sakhanovich - Anastasia Guliakova

*In the likely scenario that Alina does not participate in the GP series next season, her spots would go unlisted .The girls listed above, excluding Guliakova, are the only ones in the top 24 spots this season so I would assume they go to someone like Tarakanova (though I don't see it), Gubanova, or idk who else?

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Guliakova really doesn't have much of a shot at getting spots though, I'm confused why everyone says so when she's not on either of the top 24 lists, and isn't even on the SB list at all. Being the reserve on the national team doesn't really mean much. Last year neither Sakhanovich and Sotskova weren't on the national team at all, but both were given spots over Gubanova who was on the reserve team and was top 24 on the SB list. The only way that it would even be possible for Guliakova to get a spot would be the host spot, but I don't see why RusFed would give that to her. They probably would give Sofia and Viktoria two spots each. If Alina doesn't return, I think the spots would go to either Tarakanova (25 on the SB list and on this years junior team although idk if she will be next year) or Konstantinova (somewhere below but near the top 24 on WS list and has had pull with RusFed in the past). Or one to each of them. Gubanova also doesn't really have a shot (sadly) because she doesn't have an international score for the SB list (why they didn't send her to a Challenger is still a mystery to me) and if she is on the WS list it is very low.

Is the coronavirus bad in Russia? Are they still playing hockey and basketball unlike other countries who have stopped?

colormyworld240 said:

Where does this "replacing older skaters with younger ones" even come from? The current new seniors are doing something previous skaters have never been able to do.

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I think that you have answered your own question. The older skaters like Medvedeva, Zagitova and Miyahara that you mention were replaced by the threeA's and Rika Kihira precisely because "the new seniors are doing things that previous skaters have not been able to do."

This does not seem like a big mystery to me. Sixteen-year-old Carol Heiss replaced 20-year-old Tenley Albright after the 1956 Olympics because Heiss could do a double Axel.

Happy Skates said:

Guliakova really doesn't have much of a shot at getting spots though, I'm confused why everyone says so when she's not on either of the top 24 lists, and isn't even on the SB list at all. Being the reserve on the national team doesn't really mean much. Last year neither Sakhanovich and Sotskova weren't on the national team at all, but both were given spots over Gubanova who was on the reserve team and was top 24 on the SB list. The only way that it would even be possible for Guliakova to get a spot would be the host spot, but I don't see why RusFed would give that to her. They probably would give Sofia and Viktoria two spots each. If Alina doesn't return, I think the spots would go to either Tarakanova (25 on the SB list and on this years junior team although idk if she will be next year) or Konstantinova (somewhere below but near the top 24 on WS list and has had pull with RusFed in the past). Or one to each of them. Gubanova also doesn't really have a shot (sadly) because she doesn't have an international score for the SB list (why they didn't send her to a Challenger is still a mystery to me) and if she is on the WS list it is very low.

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I think why people (including me) are talking about Guliakova as a candidate for a GP spot is that it is not as "crowded" up there as it was last year. If people's calculations are correct and Konstantinova are outside the Top 24 in WS list, then there is only 9 skaters left. And then we have the uncertainty of Zagitova, if she pulls out, it opens up for skaters outside the Top 24 in both SB and WS list. And I am pretty sure Guliakova is a hot candidate in that case, but she can only get one assignment, the host pick, as she hasn't any international results that counts this year.

Some interesting comments by Artur. I think the coaching situation not only in Russia with ET but in the world reflects that at certain times there will be a hot coach or school and then it too will fade out just like fashion or tv stars. Dance is a great example. I don't know all their names but there were several Russian Diva coaches - I think the 1980 olumic dance champ female, the Dubova and so on eventually here was Shipland and Zueva, the just Zueva, Krylova/Carmelango and now Dubreil and Lauzon. As for Evgenia we should not speculate anything about her dropping out with boot problems or whether she could skate on with a damaged boot. Admittedly coaches have long careers look at Frank Carroll, Alex McGowan, Petra Burka, Moskvina et al.

These Young ladies are so amazing but it will be sad to say or see if there shelf life is short. I think the world cancellation favors Rika whose body seems more likely to succeed in following years.

I would hate to think skaters think switching countries is the answer. Other than Savchenko has it really been that successful?

Skater Boy said:

These Young ladies are so amazing but it will be sad to say or see if there shelf life is short. I think the world cancellation favors Rika whose body seems more likely to succeed in following years.

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If you want to boast up Rika Kihira by draging down the 3As, you should go to Japanese ladies thread or her fanfest, you can assume her success based on your "body" theory as much as you want there, even beyond the truth that she has never accomplished single success yet in the battles with the 3As.

Trusova evacuated from Sharm-Al-Sheikh (Egypt) and put in quarantine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teZtF_xrzFo ?
https://www.facebook.com/336660189772268/photos/a.431394050298881/2471905936247672/

Not so smart move from her parents, leaving for the abroad, ignoring warnings ...

Now the whole family needs to self isolate.