2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Scott512 · Jul 14, 2019

Lunalovesskating said:
You clearly haven't been uptodate

https://youtu.be/4EsHxi4hgqY
https://youtu.be/MILjmJ_oOT8

Ilya it's doing something right with baby girl Veronika because she is amazing. Veronika actually reminds me a little bit of Alina's little sister Sabina.

It is hard to believe that a ten-year-old girl like Veronika skate like she does. But she does. It's like she was created by the figure-skating God's.

Jeanie19 · Jul 14, 2019

He did the choreography of Sofia's welcome to Burlesque. I really like that program.

Scott512 · Jul 14, 2019

Fluture said:
That was the general opinion in this forum, yes, especially around the time Evgenia was winning everything. People hated the miming he incorporated in the programs. I personally always liked his choreography, even if I acknowledge that he can be too proud and sometimes overdoes it with voice overs, like when he insisted on putting them on Zhenya‘s 2016-17 FS even though the story would have been perfectly understandable even without them. But he made Evgenia‘s W.E. and Yulia‘s Schindler‘s List, which I find to be masterpieces. So, I wouldn‘t say he‘s a bad choreographer but again, that‘s probably subjective to a degree too.

That's right Ilya Averbukh created those two masterpieces that live on. I really don't understand why so many people don't like him. When Zhenya left Eteri a lot of people rejoiced thinking Zhenya would never work with Ilya again as her choreographer. Well...lol...he's back!

And I'm absolutely fine with it. Her short program this season should be outstanding.

flanker · Jul 14, 2019

Scott512 said:
When Zhenya left Eteri a lot of people rejoiced thinking Zhenya would never work with Ilya again as her choreographer. Well...lol...he's back!

That's the paradox I like

As for Averbukh's choreos, I very like W.E. and SP from 2016-17 season (with Yimura's River Flows in You). I also don't share the aversion towards Extremely Loud... program, even when it is not my favorite one. And some of his choreos in Ice Age Kids are truly good.

But this is not the answer to the question whether he is the right one for the current Tutberidze girls. One or two, maybe, it could be good, but not like five or six.

Fluture · Jul 14, 2019

I like this as a trailer for the Russian ladies next season.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz5KC6woPHA/?igshid=1oybpzb0i7bbf

Amei · Jul 14, 2019

flanker said:
That's the paradox I like

As for Averbukh's choreos, I very like W.E. and SP from 2016-17 season (with Yimura's River Flows in You). I also don't share the aversion towards Extremely Loud... program, even when it is not my favorite one. And some of his choreos in Ice Age Kids are truly good.

But this is not the answer to the question whether he is the right one for the current Tutberidze girls. One or two, maybe, it could be good, but not like five or six.

I think that's choreography in general, some programs will be great, some good, and some not-so good. I'd like to see some different choreographers in there besides Danill - there are too many skaters for him to do, and they have several amazing skaters that have great musicality, different choreographers are going to help them and others grow as skaters. In addition to Averbukh both Lambiel, and Zueva would be some great options.

Fluture · Jul 14, 2019

Scott512 said:
That's right Ilya Averbukh created those two masterpieces that live on. I really don't understand why so many people don't like him.

When Zhenya left Eteri a lot of people rejoiced thinking Zhenya would never work with Ilya again as her choreographer. Well...lol...he's back! And I'm absolutely fine with it. Her short program this season should be outstanding.

Well, just saying that I don‘t particularly like his character either, he always seemed to have rather a big ego to me in interviews. But I do appreciate his choreographic work. :biggrin:

I don’t see it as a paradox and I didn‘t rejoice either. It‘s not so unusual for skaters to collaborate again with their old choreographers even after they‘ve changed coaches. Averbukh isn‘t exclusively tied to Eteri‘s group, on the contrary, in the Olympic season he worked only with Evgenia. Of course, there are those who didn‘t like the miming and thus heavily dislike his choreo and in a way, I can understand it. It‘s a style you either like or dislike and given that Zhenya had programs like this for three years of her senior career, they probably were glad she would be working with someone else now, too. And I have to say I‘m happy about it as well. Not because I didn‘t like Averbukh‘s choreography but because I think it‘s important to experience new styles and work with new people. Just like Zhenya does now and she seems quite happy. This doesn‘t mean that she can’t go back to Averbukh once in a while, of course not. And I‘m glad she did and looking forward to what they‘ve come up with.

el henry · Jul 14, 2019

Scott512 said:
That's right Ilya Averbukh created those two masterpieces that live on. I really don't understand why so many people don't like him. When Zhenya left Eteri a lot of people rejoiced thinking Zhenya would never work with Ilya again as her choreographer. Well...lol...he's back! And I'm absolutely fine with it. Her short program this season should be outstanding.

I don’t think any long term Zhenya fans “rejoiced” :scratch3: from everything I’ve read from her loyal fans who stayed with her through thick and thin, they liked Ilya’s choreo then and they like it now. No change in that opinion at all. Good for them:agree:

I freely admit I am not a long term fan and I didn’t like the “miming” programs (sorry long term Zhenya fans, but we can’t agree on everything

.) So it’s not as though new Zhenya fans like me have changed their minds and it’s not like long time Zhenya fans have changed their minds.

That said, I am all for the choreographer who works best with a skater, whoever that may be. The program I am most looking forward to is the ShaeLynn choreo for Memoirs of a Geisha. Even just from the little clip, that has a potential to slay :clap:

and of course most skaters would be more than happy to work with Shae Lynn:yes:

Scott512 · Jul 14, 2019

flanker said:
That's the paradox I like

As for Averbukh's choreos, I very like W.E. and SP from 2016-17 season (with Yimura's River Flows in You). I also don't share the aversion towards Extremely Loud... program, even when it is not my favorite one. And some of his choreos in Ice Age Kids are truly good.

But this is not the answer to the question whether he is the right one for the current Tutberidze girls. One or two, maybe, it could be good, but not like five or six.

How many skaters does Eterihave that need choreography? Danil can't possibly provide choreography for all of them so that's why Ilya and others should be used even outside of a Sambo-70 relationship like the one Ilya has with them. .

Edwin · Jul 14, 2019

Gleikhengauz is the 'in house' artist at Khrustalniy, so he is more available and more affordable to the resident skaters, esp. the younger ones still without big sponsorships.

Averbukh or even a foreign choreographer cost the skater substantial money, and if they are wise, they calculate a certain 'return of investment' beforehand. I.e. lets presume a 10 K choreo should at least bring a 15 K reward in prize money, or whatever the ratio they find acceptable. Only the big international stars like Medvyedeva and Zagitova have that kind of money to spend I think.

Fluture · Jul 14, 2019

Edwin said:
Gleikhengauz is the 'in house' artist at Khrustalniy, so he is more available and more affordable to the resident skaters, esp. the younger ones still without big sponsorships.

Averbukh or even a foreign choreographer cost the skater substantial money, and if they are wise, they calculate a certain 'return of investment' beforehand. I.e. lets presume a 10 K choreo should at least bring a 15 K reward in prize money, or whatever the ratio they find acceptable. Only the big international stars like Medvyedeva and Zagitova have that kind of money to spend I think.

But didn‘t Zhenya get choreo from Zhulin even in her second junior season? And her SP and FS in the 2015-16 season were done by Zhulin and Averbukh respectively and she wasn‘t already a big international star back then.

ruga · Jul 14, 2019

I think skaters (at least those included in the national team) have most of their expenses covered, so there should be no financial struggles for them, but it's more convenient to get a program done on the same rink than to fly to another side of the world IMO.

Edwin · Jul 14, 2019

ruga said:
I think skaters (at least those included in the national team) have most of their expenses covered, so there should be no financial struggles for them, but it's more convenient to get a program done on the same rink than to fly to another side of the world IMO.

I do think FFKKR has a cap on money spend on this skater or that. They don't want to set examples or favour one skater above the other. Private or sponsorship money is probably OK, but given the hourly rates of a renowned 'Western' choreographer, 10K will only get you so far ...

True, especially if the child is still a minor and a parent/chaperone staying full time abroad adds to the cost.

nussnacker · Jul 14, 2019

Edwin said:
I do think FFKKR has a cap on money spend on this skater or that. They don't want to set examples or favour one skater above the other. Private or sponsorship money is probably OK, but given the hourly rates of a renowned 'Western' choreographer, 10K will only get you so far ...

True, especially if the child is still a minor and a parent/chaperone staying full time abroad adds to the cost.

True, they do have a cap on money for skaters.
Even costumes, skates, boots - it's covered, but only to a certain price point and certain amount.
So Rusfed will cover 3 dresses and 2 pairs of boots (or so) financially until a certain price point (if higher, you basically cover the difference yourself)

If something happened and you need another pair of boots - that's on you.

Same for choreographers, they are covered only until a certain price point, and if a kid wants 10k choreo, then the price difference will have to be paid by parents.

There're also different types of fundings, so for example we've already seen members of team Russia (and substitutes) on junior and senior level. This is the highest level of funding.
There are also regional federations (like Moscow federation and Saint-Petersburg federation) that help less successful athletes and pay for their expenses, but they get less money.

That being said, I think Eteri prefers to work with Daniil, because she wants to take part in choreographing and thinking of ideas, brainstorming together. And I think she prefers him, because he spends a lot of time on the rink together with skaters, it helps him to know them way better than any outsider choreographers, know what they like, what will fit and what will work

Like look at Elizabet, the two programs she had this season were so much better than anything she ever did before as a senior. Who ever thought Carmen would be a great idea for her (in her 17-18 season)? =/ Sorry Ge and Orser, but a huge mistake on their part, seemed like they don't know her at all.

Not every single program of Eteri/Daniil is a once-in-a-lifetime masterpiece (but this applies to all choreographers, including David Wilson, Lori Nichol, Shae-Lynn etc).

I do think the programs and ideas for the most part are interesting and fresh (like Kamila's Girl on a ball program is pretty unique and fits her very well, Don Quixote was amazing, Alyona's Stella's theme and Angel are beautiful). And at the very least, if they're not unique, they fit the athletes and don't look awkward (which we've seen happen too many times).

It's a learning process, they can make mistakes, they can have less unique programs for some and more unique ones for others. But the same thing applies for all choreographers in the world. I am yet to see a choreographer who produced masterpieces one after another without having a misstep.

Lunalovesskating · Jul 14, 2019

nussnacker said:
True, they do have a cap on money for skaters.
Even costumes, skates, boots - it's covered, but only to a certain price point and certain amount.
So Rusfed will cover 3 dresses and 2 pairs of boots (or so) financially until a certain price point (if higher, you basically cover the difference yourself)

If something happened and you need another pair of boots - that's on you.

Same for choreographers, they are covered only until a certain price point, and if a kid wants 10k choreo, then the price difference will have to be paid by parents.

There're also different types of fundings, so for example we've already seen members of team Russia (and substitutes) on junior and senior level. This is the highest level of funding.
There are also regional federations (like Moscow federation and Saint-Petersburg federation) that help less successful athletes and pay for their expenses, but they get less money.

That being said, I think Eteri prefers to work with Daniil, because she wants to take part in choreographing and thinking of ideas, brainstorming together. And I think she prefers him, because he spends a lot of time on the rink together with skaters, it helps him to know them way better than any outsider choreographers, know what they like, what will fit and what will work

Like look at Elizabet, the two programs she had this season were so much better than anything she ever did before as a senior. Who ever thought Carmen would be a great idea for her (in her 17-18 season)? =/ Sorry Ge and Orser, but a huge mistake on their part, seemed like they don't know her at all.

Not every single program of Eteri/Daniil is a once-in-a-lifetime masterpiece (but this applies to all choreographers, including David Wilson, Lori Nichol, Shae-Lynn etc).

I do think the programs and ideas for the most part are interesting and fresh (like Kamila's Girl on a ball program is pretty unique and fits her very well, Don Quixote was amazing, Alyona's Stella's theme and Angel are beautiful). And at the very least, if they're not unique, they fit the athletes and don't look awkward (which we've seen happen too many times).

It's a learning process, they can make mistakes, they can have less unique programs for some and more unique ones for others. But the same thing applies for all choreographers in the world. I am yet to see a choreographer who produced masterpieces one after another without having a misstep.

I loved Elizabet's Carmen. I loved most programs team TCC gave her and thought they fit her very well.

ruga · Jul 14, 2019

I think that having Daniil present at the rink most of the time is convenient not only because of traveling, but also for making some small changes in programs if something doesn't work out. Besides, if a choreographer is constantly working with athletes, he/she will get to know them better and create programs that fit them.

nussnacker · Jul 14, 2019

Lunalovesskating said:
I loved Elizabet's Carmen. I loved most programs team TCC gave her and thought they fit her very well.

Oh well... :slink:

Good guy Brian can do no wrong :biggrin:

esteticlove · Jul 14, 2019

ruga said:
I think that having Daniil present at the rink most of the time is convenient not only because of traveling, but also for making some small changes in programs if something doesn't work out. Besides, if a choreographer is constantly working with athletes, he/she will get to know them better and create programs that fit them.

That's why I was thinking about hiring someone new to the team, and not just paying some famous super-expensive choreographer to do a couple of programs. Of course, they know best what they need in order to do their work

Artemisa · Jul 14, 2019

I think ... Eteri uses Daniil because he know's how to do a program that benefits the skater ... maybe they don't have the best music cut ... but every eteri's skater owns the program ...

Look at Zhenya ... her SP last season didn't suit her ... but when she was with Eteri ... she own the programs even with voices and mimics

flanker · Jul 14, 2019

ruga said:
I think that having Daniil present at the rink most of the time is convenient not only because of traveling, but also for making some small changes in programs if something doesn't work out. Besides, if a choreographer is constantly working with athletes, he/she will get to know them better and create programs that fit them.

esteticlove said:
That's why I was thinking about hiring someone new to the team, and not just paying some famous super-expensive choreographer to do a couple of programs. Of course, they know best what they need in order to do their work

And me, that's what I've been talking about earlier. Another choreographer could be a good thing, but it should be someone who knows girls and is in permanent contact with them and with the team (like nussnacker mentioned). Which will not apply with most of the externists and definitely not with foreigners.

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Scott512

Jeanie19

Scott512

flanker

Fluture

Amei

Fluture

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Scott512

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!

Fluture

ruga

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!

nussnacker

one and only

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power 🐻

ruga

nussnacker

one and only

esteticlove

Artemisa

flanker

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