2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 79 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
As a native russian speaker, I understood that message differently. It's not that she is opposed to her skaters expressing their opinion and participating in makings of the program. What she meant by that, is that sometimes, after obtaining some titles, some skaters can become cocky and demand some special treatment, and she disagrees with that.

As for Elizabet's comments, in her interview she says that skaters in her group are more than encouraged to participate in creation of their programs. She also said, that Eteri is brutally honest about everything, and she always speaks her mind about all details in the program, even down to make up. Albeit, doesn't mean skaters aren't allowed to do their own thing, they just trust their coach and her opinion.





I think majority of comments were that it's not Evgenia's style, but Eteri style, since a lot of Eteri skaters tend to use those expressive face expressions (what people like to call "miming") and overthetop movements like Evgenia banging the imaginary wall in one of the EX and Alina's breaking glass thing in POTO.
With Averbukh's choreo, a lot were criticizing his "pointless" movements, like "running" in the beginning of Yulia's Shindler program and Evgenia's 9/11 program.

And major point was that with this coaching change we will see more of a subtle and mature skating, something probably more muted/sophisticated and less "in your face", that a lot of people found distasteful and liked to criticize. I found a lot of them saying "oh there's so much natural performer talent, it's just they make the skater express his talent, because of bad programs and choreography"
And I think similar sentiments were said about Zhenya's programs. That she has a lot of artistic potential, but is given those "hot mess" Aver's choreos.

So I just pointed out, that "changes" that were hyped up by many, including her new coaching team, seemed not to be happening in the end, if she goes back to her old style of programs.

I don't think she had to "leave" Averbukh at all, it's not about her choice, it's probably about fans hyping it up and making it look like with the coaching change a lot of new packaging will come, when now it looks like "old packaging" is coming back and we're not going to see any changes possibly.
I would say, it's not a "one step at a time", more like a step back in my opinion.

She could've gone to Shaelynn or Buttle (or maybe ever Richaud lol), she would've gotten something different to both Wilson and Averbukh, would've been honestly a lot more beneficial to her development.
I still see a more mature skater in zhenya now than 2017 for example. You could see it in both her programms last year. She was more mature.. And I for one also loved the miming. I never hated it never. And being more mature doesnt mean to not do a programm with your old choreographer.
 

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
As a native russian speaker, I understood that message differently. It's not that she is opposed to her skaters expressing their opinion and participating in makings of the program. What she meant by that, is that sometimes, after obtaining some titles, some skaters can become cocky and demand some special treatment, and she disagrees with that.

As for Elizabet's comments, in her interview she says that skaters in her group are more than encouraged to participate in creation of their programs. She also said, that Eteri is brutally honest about everything, and she always speaks her mind about all details in the program, even down to make up. Albeit, doesn't mean skaters aren't allowed to do their own thing, they just trust their coach and her opinion.





I think majority of comments were that it's not Evgenia's style, but Eteri style, since a lot of Eteri skaters tend to use those expressive face expressions (what people like to call "miming") and overthetop movements like Evgenia banging the imaginary wall in one of the EX and Alina's breaking glass thing in POTO.
With Averbukh's choreo, a lot were criticizing his "pointless" movements, like "running" in the beginning of Yulia's Shindler program and Evgenia's 9/11 program.

And major point was that with this coaching change we will see more of a subtle and mature skating, something probably more muted/sophisticated and less "in your face", that a lot of people found distasteful and liked to criticize. I found a lot of them saying "oh there's so much natural performer talent, it's just they make the skater express his talent, because of bad programs and choreography"
And I think similar sentiments were said about Zhenya's programs. That she has a lot of artistic potential, but is given those "hot mess" Aver's choreos.

So I just pointed out, that "changes" that were hyped up by many, including her new coaching team, seemed not to be happening in the end, if she goes back to her old style of programs.

I don't think she had to "leave" Averbukh at all, it's not about her choice, it's probably about fans hyping it up and making it look like with the coaching change a lot of new packaging will come, when now it looks like "old packaging" is coming back and we're not going to see any changes possibly.
I would say, it's not a "one step at a time", more like a step back in my opinion.

She could've gone to Shaelynn or Buttle (or maybe ever Richaud lol), she would've gotten something different to both Wilson and Averbukh, would've been honestly a lot more beneficial to her development.
And as she has yet to say who will choreograph her free programm it could still be Shaelynn or Buttle who will do it who knows
 

leilaraj

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Regarding Sofia, is anyone else a little confused how her PCS were stagnating? Yes, we had the Mishin and choreography discussion, but I honestly don‘t get it.. her FS was sooo entertaining and she was almost clean the whole season AND won Euros.. I thought after that win she would have a PCS boost..Even though I‘m happy for everyone else, I think she deserved to place higher at worlds.
 

leilaraj

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Also, is anyone else that obsessed about Shae Lynn Bourne and her work like I am? I would love to see Alina, Alena and Sasha working with her (I know, not gonna happen) but Liza or Sofia could right?
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Sofia Samodurova, she has some videos on her instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxrUs6GiSGu/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxHbz6OHn4v/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt-hnAMAgRF/

I also saw video of her her singing at some ice exibition, but can't find it now.
Sofia really is a dual-threat. The third video of her singing is my favorite of hours. It should have 180 million views not that mediocre song I heard the other day that everyone went crazy about the last couple days. ;)

As for her skating will Sofia add a triple axel the way Liza did? That is the question.
 

melgirl25

Medalist
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
I still see a more mature skater in zhenya now than 2017 for example. You could see it in both her programms last year. She was more mature.. And I for one also loved the miming. I never hated it never. And being more mature doesnt mean to not do a programm with your old choreographer.

I agree. Also let's wait to see her new short program. It may not be classic Averbukh with miming and sound effects. Although I realize that those things maybe have been influenced by Eteri too. I honestly don't know.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I am one of those who never liked Averbukh’s miming programs (sorry long time Zhenya fans:) ) and thought that Zhenya had more to give than those programs. Again, never blame the skater, issue is with the choreo.

I am willing to give this a try because Brian and Tracy are never hesitant to tell a skater what they need to improve, AFAIK, and if they feel any moves don’t work, they will discuss with Zhenya. In addition, they support and encourage a skater’s choices once they have seen them (they did the same with other new skaters — to them— that they have worked with). Finally, I can’t imagine where the moves I don’t like would fit into a Muse program, although anything is possible. :biggrin:

I’m glad that Zhenya feels even more comfortable and supported in her training environment that she can reach out to choreographers that she likes.

I have a question due to my unfamiliarity with the Russian system. In the US, there is a summer camp where all sorts of officials give feedback on programs, not just your own coach. It is not a “test skate” in that a skater may not have their entire program, it is not in front of an audience, and the skater may be asked questions and get direct feedback. Does the Russian Fed have a program like that?
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
I still see a more mature skater in zhenya now than 2017 for example. You could see it in both her programms last year. She was more mature.. And I for one also loved the miming. I never hated it never. And being more mature doesnt mean to not do a programm with your old choreographer.

In 2017, she was 17 going on 18. In 2019, she is 19 going on 20. It would be sad to not mature at least a little.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Sofia really is a dual-threat. The third video of her singing is my favorite of hours. It should have 180 million views not that mediocre song I heard the other day that everyone went crazy about the last couple days. ;)

As for her skating will Sofia add a triple axel the way Liza did? That is the question.

Well, imagine some other skater skating to Sofia's song, that would be really amazing :)
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Regarding Sofia, is anyone else a little confused how her PCS were stagnating? Yes, we had the Mishin and choreography discussion, but I honestly don‘t get it.. her FS was sooo entertaining and she was almost clean the whole season AND won Euros.. I thought after that win she would have a PCS boost..Even though I‘m happy for everyone else, I think she deserved to place higher at worlds.

As for me, in my subjective opinion she was better at Euros. During Worlds she was less expressive, her jumps were lower, so I was not surprised by her lower score. I presume she was more nervous this time, it wasn't lack of skills, she was clean after all and definitely good. I've enjoyed her skating more than some skaters who were scored higher in total (Bradie Tennell for example).
 

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
In 2017, she was 17 going on 18. In 2019, she is 19 going on 20. It would be sad to not mature at least a little.
But I also do d she looks more mature and skated more mature. I only said that you could see she matured. I see also a difference between her early 2018 and late 2018 ,
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I do not think Zhenya’s maturity in skating last year is due only to increasing age, many skaters increase in years and do not mature;)

She had the maturity to make a huge life decision, stick with it, and see it through. She ended with a World podium finish that few would have predicted only two months earlier. I actually really liked the OCS program, but she was more comfortable with Tosca and good for her and her team for figuring that out.

I wou.d like to know who is the choreographer for Memoirs of a Geisha, however:)
 

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
I do not think Zhenya’s maturity in skating last year is due only to increasing age, many skaters increase in years and do not mature;)

She had the maturity to make a huge life decision, stick with it, and see it through. She ended with a World podium finish that few would have predicted only two months earlier. I actually really liked the OCS program, but she was more comfortable with Tosca and good for her and her team for figuring that out.

I wou.d like to know who is the choreographer for Memoirs of a Geisha, however:)
Thank you for also seeing what I see. Yes that is also what I mean with more mature. She also seems to be a lot more outgoing than before. Didn't other skater mention in interviews that she is a lot more open and spending time with other skater than before? I think I read that somewhere too
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
But I also do d she looks more mature and skated more mature. I only said that you could see she matured. I see also a difference between her early 2018 and late 2018 ,

As for the skating, comparing jumps SBS from olympics and worlds say the difference is only in entries, which are more simple now.
As for the mature look, nothing surprisind that 19 y. o. already adult woman express herself in more adult way than she did as an 17 y. o. teenager. She was also different at 2016 worlds and 2017 worlds. Also growing up and looking mature is completely natural.
I've seen very similar argument with Anastasia Tarakanova, how mature she looks under Plushenko (before the "burn Pushenko" movement started :) ), to which I've said the same, girl of 13 and of 14 is natural difference. That is not a merit of a coach.
 

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
As for the skating, comparing jumps SBS from olympics and worlds say the difference is only in entries, which are more simple now.
As for the mature look, nothing surprisind that 19 y. o. already adult woman express herself in more adult way than she did as an 17 y. o. teenager. She was also different at 2016 worlds and 2017 worlds. Also growing up and looking mature is completely natural.
I've seen very similar argument with Anastasia Tarakanova, how mature she looks under Plushenko (before the "burn Pushenko" movement started :) ), to which I've said the same, girl of 13 and of 14 is natural difference. That is not a merit of a coach.
Ok i get that you don't really like her. Again in my opinion her skating is more mature than in early 2018. It is my opinion and I do not need to always defend it. And look at the comment above all around she is more mature nit only from outside but also inside and yes it is normal but damm it why do you always try to find something wrong with what I am saying? What exacted your problem when I said she got more mature?
 

NoviceFan

Triple Something-Triple Looping
Medalist
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Ok i get that you don't really like her. Again in my opinion her skating is more mature than in early 2018. It is my opinion and I do not need to always defend it. And look at the comment above all around she is more mature nit only from outside but also inside and yes it is normal but damm it why do you always try to find something wrong with what I am saying? What exacted your problem when I said she got more mature?

It's not you. It's Evgenia's fault for leaving Eteri. If she had stayed, some would not feel so embolden to contradict anything that is even remotely positive about Evgenia ;)
 

fabienne1996

Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Country
Germany
It's not you. It's Evgenia's fault for leaving Eteri. If she had stayed, some would not feel so embolden to contradict anything that is even remotely positive about Evgenia ;)
And that's exactly why most Evgenia fans never post in here because some people can't get enough of trying to nitpick st everything we say about her. Well at least we tried. Because yes her changing coaches let her mature faster too. It is natural that you mature when you move your entire life around and take a step over the so called cliff into nothing , but still why can't Iwe just say that she matured in the past year , a lot. And let it stand there because it is simply the truth
[emoji2]
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
And I’m going to come out and say it: I think the coaching change helped Zhenya, I think she is more mature personally and in her skating *not just* because she is older, but because of the coaching change. And not just a coaching change, but a life change. Russia should be very proud of her for her maturity in making this decision and for the improvements in her skating.

(And let me be clear, making a change means it was right for Zhenya. It doesn’t mean it would be right for anyone else, it’s not talking about anyone except Zhenya and what was right for her).

Others may disagree and that’s fine. But the fact that she aged one year does not change my opinion as to why her skating seemed more mature. And it’s not the aging one year :biggrin:
 
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