Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations

Oh my!!!! This is a highly concerning story. It amazes me how we get off topic and how any conversation can have so many slants, interpretation to the pointn race is beingg brought. I am reading, in general these posts, I am not sure anyone is really making excuses for anyone including Morgan. Just possible explanations or positons for what happened or could have happened. We have no idea who really did what and equally important what can be proven to the satisfaction of Safesport which has a different standard than criminal. My mind is running if itis true Morgan sent these pictures is wasn't he dating someone? Why would someone famous send naked picturesto someone he or she doesn't know - mind you celebrities don't seem to be m odest or shy now a days I guess. If true, this Vinny character seems to be a lot of the cause of the problem. I guess Safesport has to make an environment where people feel safe and comfortableto come forward and the same time balancing the rights of the accused.

macy said:

i think it's time to close the thread until we have further information.

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I totally concur! Awesomeness!

Emmitt Till was lynched because he was black. That is the reason why race matters in the example you used.

Skater Boy said:

Oh my!!!! This is a highly concerning story. It amazes me how we get off topic and how any conversation can have so many slants, interpretation to the pointn race is beingg brought. I am reading, in general these posts, I am not sure anyone is really making excuses for anyone including Morgan. Just possible explanations or positons for what happened or could have happened. We have no idea who really did what and equally important what can be proven to the satisfaction of Safesport which has a different standard than criminal. My mind is running if itis true Morgan sent these pictures is wasn't he dating someone? Why would someone famous send naked picturesto someone he or she doesn't know - mind you celebrities don't seem to be m odest or shy now a days I guess. If true, this Vinny character seems to be a lot of the cause of the problem. I guess Safesport has to make an environment where people feel safe and comfortableto come forward and the same time balancing the rights of the accused.

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Morgan sending the photos is the cause of his own problems. Someone else is not the cause of his problems.

ancientpeas said:

Emmitt Till was lynched because he was black. That is the reason why race matters in the example you used.

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This so saddens me when peoples cannot see past race or color. When and what will it take to make that day come? Is it never to be that some people simply cannot look past the color of person's skin and see the issues that lay beneath?

I give up. You win. The only relevance that Emmett Till holds with you is he was killed for being a 14 year black boy. I get it. It had absolutely nothing to do with being accused of a wrongdoing, and then killed instead of waiting for an investigation, charges filed, trial, verdict and sentenced. No for you, he was black so he was killed. Nuff said.

Like I said, a lack of advancement in human intelligence.

CherylDee said:

AP I appreciate your sentiments, but please don't make this about race or color. The point I am making and I will continue to make is to withhold judgments until all the facts are in, and doom a person's career because of your personal experiences and the like. THIS IS NOT A RACIAL ISSUE, SO PLEASE DON'T MAKE IT ONE!

This is a human race issue, and that is please stop the mob mentality and act accordingly to the sophistication that is expected of the FS community. You simply do not have all the facts, and NO ONE, not no one is in a position here to pass judgment on 1 sensationalized report. It's not fair to the skaters, and we've already had one suicide following these accusations! This needs to stop until the facts are in, period. But I understand the sentiments from personal experiences, but this is not your case and you are not the victim here.

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While I agree with you that we don’t yet have enough facts to judge, Christine Brennan’s article was in fact carefully written and did not take sides or judge what happened. The father of the young girl who is alleged to be the victim here is an attorney. Christine Brennan is a journalist with more than 20 years of experience who works for a major national newspaper. I’m pretty sure all of them know what’s at stake here. If the accusations are false, the accusers will face consequences and the accused will have remedies. USA Today could face multiple lawsuits. In the meantime, people will continue to read and discuss articles and form opinions as they always do. To be honest, I think you’re really reaching by comparing what’s happening here with what happened to a 14 year old African American boy in Mississippi in 1955. And I think you’re wrong to even imply that figure skating fans were responsible for John Coughlin’s suicide.

CherylDee said:

This so saddens me when peoples cannot see past race or color. When and what will it take to make that day come? Is it never to be that some people simply cannot look past the color of person's skin and see the issues that lay beneath?

I give up. You win. The only relevance that Emmett Till holds with you is he was killed for being a 14 year black boy. I get it. It had absolutely nothing to do with being accused of a wrongdoing, and then killed instead of waiting for an investigation, charges filed, trial, verdict and sentenced. No for you, he was black so he was killed. Nuff said.

Like I said, a lack of advancement in human intelligence.

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Or an increase in advancement of evidence. There is a photo sent from his verified account to a 13 year old girl according to the article. In the court of public opinion, people are entitled to express their opinions. The evidence supports an intelligent opinion that Cipres sent the photo.

CherylDee said:

As I sit here looking over these posts, my heart is heavy and all I can think is remember Emmett Till, a 14 year old boy accused by a 21 year old woman of looking at her, and he was kidnapped, mutilated, shot in the head and dumped in a river [lynched], all without so much of any due process of law....only for years later, the accuser to admit she lied about what happened.

And it's funny, I am currently working on a project about the advancements in Artificial Intelligence, but as I read these posts I'm only reminded of how little advancement there has been in human intelligence. The original violent mob with guns, pitchforks, and torches on the ready with the mere mention of an accusation, still exists. One poster is already prepared to see Morgan serving time in a Florida prison!

No, no evidence is needed. All that is require is the mention of the word, and the bloodletting begins. Look, I am just as shocked as everyone else with this news, but the behavior here is abhorrent, to say the least among a supposedly sophisticated, classical, and artistic-loving crowd. This is so very shameful. :hopelessness:

But don't let me spoil your fun, continue....but remember Emmett Till and see his open casket of the mutilation he incurred as the result of an unfounded accusation; along with the countless other victims of such vile sentiments which history can affirm.

I am not saying Morgan is innocent and he did nothing wrong, but what I am saying is let there be due process, and justice will be served to protect the innocent.

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It's really a new low when people resort to exploiting a horrific episode in African American history to defend an accused sexual harrasser (whose white, the irony). Disgusting.

Cipres IS getting his due process. It's called the courts.

I’m going to reserve judgment in as much as c. Brennen was one of the most avid reporters of the ‘94 scandal which some of us believe was blown out of proportion and which greatly helped her career. If this is proven to be true it’s despicable but let us pause before all of these careers are ruined and/or we have another suicide.

Tavi... said:

While I agree with you that we don’t yet have enough facts to judge, Christine Brennan’s article was in fact carefully written and did not take sides or judge what happened. The father of the young girl who is alleged to be the victim here is an attorney. Christine Brennan is a journalist with more than 20 years of experience who works for a major national newspaper. I’m pretty sure all of them know what’s at stake here. If the accusations are false, the accusers will face consequences and the accused will have remedies. USA Today could face multiple lawsuits. In the meantime, people will continue to read and discuss articles and form opinions as they always do. To be honest, I think you’re really reaching by comparing what’s happening here with what happened to a 14 year old African American boy in Mississippi in 1955. And I think you’re wrong to even imply that figure skating fans were responsible for John Coughlin’s suicide.

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jenaj said:

Or an increase in advancement of evidence. There is a photo sent from his verified account to a 13 year old girl according to the article. In the court of public opinion, people are entitled to express their opinions. The evidence supports an intelligent opinion that Cipres sent the photo.

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I guess because of my experience as a former Criminal Investigator with the Manhattan's District Attorney's Office, in NY, I have a higher standard of proof and credibility than the average person, because I know all too well the process of evidence and procedures, that I am not too quick to make judgment or jumped to half-baked conclusions. But that puts me at an advantage that I should give some consideration.

So be that as it may, I had hoped to bring a level of common-sense and rationality to this conversation, but as the saying goes, let sleeping dogs lie, and don't argue with fools. Enjoy your silly speculations and irrational innuendos regardless of the consequences or who it may hurt. When it's over, we'll all pretend these silly conversations never took place, and no one has to look the fool.

lilahozi said:

It's really a new low when people resort to exploiting a horrific episode in African American history to defend an accused sexual harrasser (whose white, the irony). Disgusting.

Cipres IS getting his due process. It's called the courts.

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You know what you can do with you idiotic opinion, right!?

I am afraid Vanessa James' career will anyway be destroyed, whatever the issue. What is the likeliness of her finding another partner and learn to skate together before she must retire? Ciprès, unless he was not the person who sent the pic, dit send that sort of crap to unknown persons (if he didn't know he was sending them to 13 yo girls) so I am less prone to compassion... though his after-skating career could be just as difficult.
And, yes, I think this thread may be suspended until we know more than this USA Today article.

lilahozi said:

It's really a new low when people resort to exploiting a horrific episode in African American history to defend an accused sexual harrasser (whose white, the irony). Disgusting.

Cipres IS getting his due process. It's called the courts.

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Agreed. Some people have no idea what they are talking about. It was a case from over 60 years ago that was not about harassment of women. We don’t even know if he whistled but the whistling was used as post hoc justification for racial violence and murder. Because in that time, a black man even looking the wrong way at a white woman was an excuse for violence. How dare a black boy not know his place and make advances toward a white woman and white people made an “example” of him to intimidate the black community. And there is debate about whether he even whistled at her, that this was just used as an excuse to “justify” racial violence that was happening without provocation.

If Till had been white it would have been perfectly acceptable to whistle at a white woman at that time. During this same era, if a white man raped a black woman in front of witnesses they would most likely never see a court room. The whole point of the case was that white men killed a boy, in front of multiple witnesses, and even admitted to their actions after the trial and still the murderers walked free. To even imply this was about Till not getting due process for sexual harassment is to fundamentally misunderstand the case and American history.This was about racial violence prevalent in America at the time. And FYI, any woman complaining of a white man whistling at her in 1955 would have been laughed out of court because sexual harassment wasn’t even considered a crime back then.

And while you bring up this case - the murderers walked free and later admitted to the murder. Because they were proud of what they had done. Our justice system is flawed and often those with less power - such as child victims or people facing discrimination - do not achieve justice in a court of law. However the media attention and journalism toward the case did ultimately make a huge difference in American history to shine a light on racial violence and our justice system. So it was journalism, not a court of law, that made a significant impact in a case with clear evidence of guilt despite perpetrators walking free.

CherylDee said:

whole post

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@CherylDee, please do not answer this if you do not want to, as I do not want to infringe on your privacy, but am I correctly reading from your posts that you are African-American? and thus feel connected to the story of Emmett till ? Thank you.

DizzyFrenchie said:

I am afraid Vanessa James' career will anyway be destroyed, whatever the issue. What is the likeliness of her finding another partner and learn to skate together before she must retire? Ciprès, unless he was not the person who sent the pic, dit send that sort of crap to unknown persons (if he didn't know he was sending them to 13 yo girls) so I am less prone to compassion... though his after-skating career could be just as difficult.
And, yes, I think this thread may be suspended until we know more than this USA Today article.

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This is the main reason I had hoped to influence people to stop and think and not jump to conclusion based on hearsay evidence, because even if Morgan is cleared, the court of public opinion will have already tried, convicted, and sentenced him as a pedophile, pervert, sexual abuser, etc...without ever seeing one piece of evidence, or getting the full story. All it takes is an accusation, and those involved is well of aware of this.

If they try to step on the ice again as competitors, there's no doubt they will be booed, hissed at, and treated with disdain. So yes, it's basically over for them, as clearly evident here. Thank you for posting that.

el henry said:

@CherylDee, please do not answer this if you do not want to, as I do not want to infringe on your privacy, but am I correctly reading from your posts that you are African-American? and thus feel connected to the story of Emmett till ? Thank you.

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Yes, I am a proud chocolate American of slave descent. But I feel no particular connection to Emmett Till other that just another tragic story in American History. But one that carries a lesson that we can all learn from, if those who object can just get by the race and color issue.

It's the first story that came to mind that I could draw parallel to. But of, course most people can only apply the word "exploitation" when mentioning anything about Black Americans, as if Black history is not a part of American history. Thus they don't allow the topic to come up or be spoken about. I just ignore. We can't keep our heads buried in the sand forever, pretending it never happened and refusing to even talk about it. How else do we learn that which we don't know?

Thank you for asking El, and please feel free to ask me more!

DizzyFrenchie said:

I am afraid Vanessa James' career will anyway be destroyed, whatever the issue. What is the likeliness of her finding another partner and learn to skate together before she must retire? Ciprès, unless he was not the person who sent the pic, dit send that sort of crap to unknown persons (if he didn't know he was sending them to 13 yo girls) so I am less prone to compassion... though his after-skating career could be just as difficult.
And, yes, I think this thread may be suspended until we know more than this USA Today article.

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:thumbsup:

Stalking this thread for awhile now.

I'm curious and trying to imagine just what in the world must be going on in that rink as soon as this was announced in that news article.
Has anyone experienced any similar situation?
I assume there's a flurry of meetings with rink staff to "say nothing" to the press who might start following you around for a story.
But what about parents/students and these coaches? Is there an immediate flurry of students/parents texting the coaches and immediately quitting on the spot? Or do they continue "business as usual" with these coaches until more proof/information comes out? How in the world does a skater/parents respond to this when there's so little information so far? I suppose the rink itself may have more information than we do in a news article.... just from "hearsay" and "rumor" around the rink. But I'm trying to figure out what I would do if this happened at my rink and I'm drawing up blank. It's the only rink for a million miles around, so it's not like I have "other choices" to go to.
Even if you do have other choices, it takes time to transfer elsewhere, which disrupts your training schedule. The rink is the place I go to get my mind off everything. It's paradise. What happens when paradise turns into hell and suddenly you can't skate to "get your mind off things" because all of those things on your mind are at the rink? It would be like walking thru a war-zone on egg-shells, the exact opposite of calm and tranquility.

drivingmissdaisy said:

It's especially disappointing if it's true that Silvia acted to discourage the minor from reporting the incident. She's a beautiful woman and there's no doubt she's faced harassment at some point in her life, so she should know exactly why this is a huge problem.

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I would argue the opposite. If she was exposed to this kind of thing herself and blew it off, she might be in more of a "boys will be boys" "it happens" mindset. However, no matter how one personally might react to something like that, she and her husband are coaching in the United States in the current environment and should certainly be aware that when you are faced with something like this you have to blow the whistle. Short term pain - blowing up their prize couple, long term gain - keeping their jobs, which I would be very surprised if they are able to do if this proves to be anywhere close to true.

Oreo said:

I think, too, that Zimmerman and Fontana were considering their financial loss if they lost Cipres and James as students. Having medal winners like them attracts other students, raises your profile in the coaching world, as well as your rates.

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I agree and this is sad. They are lucky if they come out of this with ANY profile in the coaching world. Had they reported they would have suffered a loss, but they could have rebuild with no stain on their name (except amongst sleaze balls). Besides the financial loss, I get the commitment people in elite sports have towards the athlete and I've seen it make people do some pretty weird things even at a much lower level. Sports can get a little twisted once success starts to happen. Unfortunately for these two, they went short term instead of living to coach another day.