Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations

[Skater Boy]

It seems I'm in the minority here, but assuming the victim is truthful, this is what I think is the most likely scenario:

1) Dispenza is the sicko and abuser. He was grooming the victim and bribing her with pizza when he asked her to request the obscene photo.

2) Cipres got a DM from someone requesting a d*** pic. He probably had no idea who the person sending the request was. Scrolling on his phone, he looked at the sender's photo and saw what appeared to be an attractive woman. Bear in mind that 13-yr-olds can appear quite mature with makeup and instagram filters and can easily look much older than their real age. He probably didn't think anything of it and sent the photo. Was that stupid? Yes, very. Was it child abuse? Inadvertently, yes. Was it a crime and a sign of pedophilia? In my opinion, no. It was a sign of recklessness.

3) Somehow JZ and SF found out about the photo and were horrified. Cipres explained the mistake as above. JZ and SF implored the victim's family not to press charges considering it was all a terrible mistake. The wording in Brennan's article is ambiguous and it is unclear whom she is quoting here: she was a “pretty girl and men have their needs.” I highly doubt that JZ or SF actually wrote or said that. It sounds like someone paraphrasing and Brennan quoting that person.

Interesting analysis. I have to admit GS (Goldenskate lol) had some rules about initials, acronyms and your post kind of was annoying. Too many initials/short forms and assues everyone knows what you are talking about - we are all guilty. Still interesting. If you gave initials JZ and especially SF very few would get Silvia Fontana.

 

[Skater Boy]

While I agree with you that we don’t yet have enough facts to judge, Christine Brennan’s article was in fact carefully written and did not take sides or judge what happened. The father of the young girl who is alleged to be the victim here is an attorney. Christine Brennan is a journalist with more than 20 years of experience who works for a major national newspaper. I’m pretty sure all of them know what’s at stake here. If the accusations are false, the accusers will face consequences and the accused will have remedies. USA Today could face multiple lawsuits. In the meantime, people will continue to read and discuss articles and form opinions as they always do. To be honest, I think you’re really reaching by comparing what’s happening here with what happened to a 14 year old African American boy in Mississippi in 1955. And I think you’re wrong to even imply that figure skating fans were responsible for John Coughlin’s suicide.

Oh my the victim's dad was an attorney and he didn't bring it forward or waited so long...I won't be going to his firm. I know I shouldn't judge. This GS strand is kind of frustrating because people can take your post and spin it in so many ways. At least no one is suggesting some conspiracy theory involving some national leader. I can't help but feel regardless may the victim(s) get help and may those who did something wrong get some help.

 

[Skater Boy]

It's really a new low when people resort to exploiting a horrific episode in African American history to defend an accused sexual harrasser (whose white, the irony). Disgusting.

Cipres IS getting his due process. It's called the courts.

Well actually we haven't even got close to that yet. I think it is still at the Safesport stage. Not sure anything criminal is really happening or charges been laid. At "best" it is in the investigative stage criminally.

 

[Skater Boy]

I guess because of my experience as a former Criminal Investigator with the Manhattan's District Attorney's Office, in NY, I have a higher standard of proof and credibility than the average person, because I know all too well the process of evidence and procedures, that I am not too quick to make judgment or jumped to half-baked conclusions. But that puts me at an advantage that I should give some consideration.

So be that as it may, I had hoped to bring a level of common-sense and rationality to this conversation, but as the saying goes, let sleeping dogs lie, and don't argue with fools. Enjoy your silly speculations and irrational innuendos regardless of the consequences or who it may hurt. When it's over, we'll all pretend these silly conversations never took place, and no one has to look the fool.

I am not defending anyone inlcuding Cipres or This Vinny person (whose claim to fame is probably this scandal). But I agree people don't seem to comprehend this is the publlic court which has no juriprudence,, no legal value but is more like tv Q ratings based upon public sentiment which does not have to be rational or based upon fact, logic it can be any reason versus the criminal or judicial standards which at beyond a reasonable doubt are much higher than civil - balance of probability. And sometimes,it is not what happened but what can be proven. I am notsaying that this couuld be a defence but if others had access to Morgan's phone for example orwhoknowswhat accountthe pics were sent too - was it clear it was a minor? Was there any reason to question it? Simply saying that the photo came from an Instagram acct registered to Cipres is not good enough to convict at least in Canada and the US and many other "western" nations. on a slightly off topic I wonder how training is going for the victim and for Morgan and Vanessa? The victim left so who knows if she is training.

 

[Skater Boy]

Emmet Till has nothing to do with this case. He was persecuted by white people because a white woman accused him, in a time when back people were killed just because of being black (hell, they still are killed just for this reason and it's almost 2020)

Cipres sent an inappropriate picture to a child. There's evidence, there's no speculation. The fact that there are people defending him is absolutely DISGUSTING. And I hope the people defending him never, EVER, have young girls in their care by any circumstance. The fact that many of these people are fans of young girls and women in figure skating or any sport, really makes me nauseous.

I don't want to anger you get confrontatonal but my understanding there may be some evidence but it is not conclusive or has not been proven to be any violation - yet- with Safesport or Criminal law. This is NOT defending Morgan or anyone. The evidence has not been scrutinized by any level of court or assessor.

 

[thesoundofice]

When I was 13 I already had the body of a woman and sometimes received unwanted attentions. If a man had sent me pics of his penis, I would have thought he was just a stupid J and would've gone on with my life. But everyone reacts differently. What annoys me the most is the whole sick adult behaviour that's behind the fact. How could someone intimidate a young girl by telling her that " men have their needs" as if being pretty was a fault! It' s really disturbing an
especially when there are other women involved.This girl should have been protected.

 

[karne]

I am not defending anyone inlcuding Cipres

Yes you are. Your posts over the last couple of pages have been a disgusting, disgraceful plethora of excuses for him.

I am notsaying that this couuld be a defence

Yes, you are.

but if others had access to Morgan's phone for example orwhoknowswhat accountthe pics were sent too - was it clear it was a minor? Was there any reason to question it? Simply saying that the photo came from an Instagram acct registered to Cipres is not good enough to convict at least in Canada and the US and many other "western" nations.

Instagram is very clear who you are sending the pictures to. It would have been very obvious he was sending them to a 13 year old girl. To have a "verified" account takes a lot and Cipres' account is verified. To my understanding the image also contained a very distinctive tattoo. Who else are you suggesting sent the pictures?

on a slightly off topic I wonder how training is going for the victim and for Morgan and Vanessa? The victim left so who knows if she is training.

This is absolutely disgusting. The girl is in therapy for the trauma she went through. She's not skating. And why would she, after her experience?

As for Cipres and James, well, this should be the end of that partnership.

 

[karne]

Well, Cipres is in France, where neither SafeSport nor the Florida judiciary have any jurisdiction. Chances he will return to that rink to recommence training?

What most interest me now, is how the French federation will proceed and how the domestic public opinion will be shaped. For now, everybody remains silent, until a first conclusion of SafeSport is made public and either a clearance or a formal prosecution follows, this time in a legal court?

What is the best cause of action in this case? Ride out the storm in your safe home harbour, or man up and try to actively clear your name and reputation of any wrong doing? The truth here is probably very diffuse, and there will be no clear winners, only losers, I am afraid.
.

Men who send dick pics to minor CHILDREN are hardly bastions of courage. Cipres will most likely stay in France like the coward he is, knowing he cannot be extradited. Didier will probably set him up with a nice cushy job and they'll plan his competition schedule (assuming he still has a partner) around countries he cannot go.

 

[aname]

What’s interesting to me is that apparently the coaches in question didn’t know about the investigation until the USA Today article. I read on Twitter that this is because Safe Sport contact the victim and witnesses first before informing the accused.

I certainly understand the logic in doing that, with so many colleagues involved they don’t want people to start creating “alternative narratives”. However what I don’t understand is why the coaches and Cipre weren’t temporarily suspended from the rink if they could be a danger or why this was put in press if it’s at such an early stage that it’s conceivable the investigation could be dropped.

The French press have reported the French Fed are helping Morgen to “clear this up” and he’s hired a lawyer. (Link: http://www.rfi.fr/sport/20191210-pat...es-une-mineure)

Cipres is a foreign skater and not a USFS member and therefore SafeSport can't sanction him directly. I don't know if there's a French version of SafeSport that could do something. His own Fed is helping him "to clear this up", which I suspect means "let's protect our European Champion so that our #1 pair can keep competing and winning more medals".

Also, SafeSport doesn't automatically suspend people if they are being investigated. The process was explained several times in the Coughlin threads and IIRC they conduct a preliminary investigation first. That can take several months. After that, they can proceed to give a temporary suspension if they think the situation calls for that, e.g. there are currently minors at the risk of being abused by the person/people under investigation.

The SafeSport covered individuals in this case are the coaches who failed as mandatory reporters (to put it nicely), but that in itself probably won't trigger an interim suspension. Who knows what will happen with that Vinny guy, though... His role in all of this raises a lot of questions, but it could take a long time before we get any answers.

 

[CherylDee]

I don't want to anger you get confrontatonal but my understanding there may be some evidence but it is not conclusive or has not been proven to be any violation - yet- with Safesport or Criminal law. This is NOT defending Morgan or anyone. The evidence has not been scrutinized by any level of court or assessor.

Finally, another voice of reason. Thank you for presenting a rational and level-headed viewpoint in this completely irrational, overly-emotional, hysterical, discussion.

 

[CherylDee]

Oh my the victim's dad was an attorney and he didn't bring it forward or waited so long...I won't be going to his firm. I know I shouldn't judge. This GS strand is kind of frustrating because people can take your post and spin it in so many ways. At least no one is suggesting some conspiracy theory involving some national leader. I can't help but feel regardless may the victim(s) get help and may those who did something wrong get some help.

That's one of the first thing I noticed is the timing of this. I don't believe in accidents or coincidences and this coming on the heel of the fantastic success of Zimmerman and company should be seriously taken into consideration. One thing I can say for certain is lawsuits and counter lawsuits are forthcoming, so buckle up and brace for impact...this mess is gonna take some time to untangle.

 

[CherylDee]

Cipres is a foreign skater and not a USFS member and therefore SafeSport can't sanction him directly. I don't know if there's a French version of SafeSport that could do something. His own Fed is helping him "to clear this up", which I suspect means "let's protect our European Champion so that our #1 pair can keep competing and winning more medals".

Also, SafeSport doesn't automatically suspend people if they are being investigated. The process was explained several times in the Coughlin threads and IIRC they conduct a preliminary investigation first. That can take several months. After that, they can proceed to give a temporary suspension if they think the situation calls for that, e.g. there are currently minors at the risk of being abused by the person/people under investigation.

The SafeSport covered individuals in this case are the coaches who failed as mandatory reporters (to put it nicely), but that in itself probably won't trigger an interim suspension. Who knows what will happen with that Vinny guy, though... His role in all of this raises a lot of questions, but it could take a long time before we get any answers.

Very nice explanation and details, but I doubt it will satisfy the bloodlust.

 

[CherylDee]

In the first place, there is no evidence that criminal charges have been filed, so the standard of proof applicable in criminal cases is irrelevant. The standard of proof for a SafeSport violation is a preponderance of the evidence - the same standard of proof that applies in civil cases. See Section XI.C of the SafeSport Code:

https://uscenterforsafesport.org/wp.../2019-SafeSport-Code-04.15.19-Hyperlinked.pdf

In the second place, lashing out at other posters and calling them fools does not make your argument more convincing.

Since my last post was too confrontational, I'll just say this: please tell me what precedence must first be satisfied before any type of charges or actions can be filed, criminal or otherwise? If you can answer that, then I think we can all be on the same page and you will get the full gist of my posts.

And in response to the 2nd, another idiom comes to mind: "if the shoe fits, wear it". That's all I'll say.

 

[aname]

USA Today has published a Backstory piece that gives a clearer timeline of the reporting process: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/12/13/sexual-abuse-olympic-figure-skater-coaches-being-investigated-journalism/4396876002/

I hope that everybody continuing to opine & contribute to this thread would actually read the piece, but because that is unlikely to happen, I'll give a summary:

1) The story started with a tip Brennan got Aug. 10, soon after she published the Ashley Wagner story.

2) Brennan then developed a relationship with the parents, who ultimately trusted her with two videos they took of a direct Instagram message that appeared to come from Cipres' verified account.

3) Brennan got a copy of the complaint sent to SafeSport and confirmed SS is indeed investigating.

4) She got an email the girl's tutor sent to her therapist and parents.
Published excerpts from the tutor's email:
- “Please ask her to share with you the many statements that have been made to her over the past few weeks (mostly by John) in an attempt to manipulate or scare her into keeping quiet”
- “She has been told that telling will place a target on her back with French fans, that she is the type of girl who does this (collect pics), that she has been asking for it by her clothing choices, that her dad is an attorney and imagine what he will do if he finds out, that she will destroy his career and that of his partner, and much more.”

5) Brennan confirmed the email with the therapist. Therapist's comment: “I did what I was bound to do ethically. I contacted the parents. I contacted the authorities. I wanted to make sure the child was safe."

6) Brennan went to get a comment from Cipres & the coaches.
- Cipres was asked on Monday and answered: “I cannot talk with you about anything about that. I mean, I have nothing to say about this allegation. I have nothing, nothing, nothing to say about anything about that so I’m sorry, I cannot talk to you.”
- Brennan asked the 3 coaches for a comment beforehand but received a joint statement shortly after the story was published. The story was then updated to include the coaches' statement.

 

[Skater Boy]

Yes you are. Your posts over the last couple of pages have been a disgusting, disgraceful plethora of excuses for him.



Yes, you are.



Instagram is very clear who you are sending the pictures to. It would have been very obvious he was sending them to a 13 year old girl. To have a "verified" account takes a lot and Cipres' account is verified. To my understanding the image also contained a very distinctive tattoo. Who else are you suggesting sent the pictures?



This is absolutely disgusting. The girl is in therapy for the trauma she went through. She's not skating. And why would she, after her experience?

As for Cipres and James, well, this should be the end of that partnership.

Everyone is entitled to their opinons and interpretation of communicatons. But please know I do not condone the distribution of naked pictures- porn, corrupting a moral or grooming or soliciting sexual behaviour, communications that are illegal, demeaning orharmful especially to young people. In fact I am agaist of any unwanted sexual advances because it is the law and morally repugnant. Again,I am not giving Morgan or anyone defences or defending them. I am just saying we have to be fair - it looks bad but these are all allegations. I was merely point out in discussions some things that would have to be proven or establsihed. Whatever I say you are going to take "negatively". I have no idea how instagram works but I do know there can be false accounts and I do know if y ou have a ccess to soeone's personal deviceand or access codes you can send something on their account. Do I think that happened. NO but at law it might not make the standard. At law or at the Safesport level they have their evidentiary burdens and thresholds.

If Morgan and for that matter those party to the crime did something wrong they should face the appropriate penalties. I am just saying Morgan and company and for that anyone deserves to be considered innocent until proen guilty - Moreover, I agree sometimes there is a difference from what happened whether someone did it versus what can be proven. It is frustrating forsure;I totally agree. As a victim of a major crime who lost his name, career and had to move and start a new life I of all people know how frustrating the legal system can be. But the people who did unspeakable things to me still are presumed innocent. It breaks my heart and I feel it is unfair but we still have to maintain a sense of humanity, dignity and fairness to all. It's what sets us apart from beasts. I hear your frustration/pain and obviously you have it set in your mind that I and others are defending Morgan and co. That is not the case.

 

[ancientpeas]

Everyone is entitled to their opinons and interpretation of communicatons. But please know I do not condone the distribution of naked pictures- porn, corrupting a moral or grooming or soliciting sexual behaviour, communications that are illegal, demeaning orharmful especially to young people. In fact I am agaist of any unwanted sexual advances because it is the law and morally repugnant. Again,I am not giving Morgan or anyone defences or defending them. I am just saying we have to be fair - it looks bad but these are all allegations. I was merely point out in discussions some things that would have to be proven or establsihed. Whatever I say you are going to take "negatively". I have no idea how instagram works but I do know there can be false accounts and I do know if y ou have a ccess to soeone's personal deviceand or access codes you can send something on their account. Do I think that happened. NO but at law it might not make the standard. At law or at the Safesport level they have their evidentiary burdens and thresholds.

If Morgan and for that matter those party to the crime did something wrong they should face the appropriate penalties. I am just saying Morgan and company and for that anyone deserves to be considered innocent until proen guilty - Moreover, I agree sometimes there is a difference from what happened whether someone did it versus what can be proven. It is frustrating forsure;I totally agree. As a victim of a major crime who lost his name, career and had to move and start a new life I of all people know how frustrating the legal system can be. But the people who did unspeakable things to me still are presumed innocent. It breaks my heart and I feel it is unfair but we still have to maintain a sense of humanity, dignity and fairness to all. It's what sets us apart from beasts. I hear your frustration/pain and obviously you have it set in your mind that I and others are defending Morgan and co. That is not the case.

Regardless of this thread Skater Boy can I just say I am sorry for what happened to you and that it lead to such painful repercussions for you? I agree with you that Morgan and the coaches have the right to be innocent until proven guilty if this comes to court. Public opinion is different though. People will form their conclusions on the evidence that is before them but none of our opinions will send him to jail or convict him. Only a court can do that. It is natural for people to form opinions even if all the evidence has not be made available yet.

Where I differ is in the fact that once the allegation is made about a person in cases of childhood sexual abuse (luring for example) it is necessary for adults to act quickly to protect the child. People complained about Nassar and nothing was done and he continued to abuse young gymnasts for years. Sexual predators (and I'm not saying Morgan is one but if he is sending pornography to a 13 year old one has to wonder at his judgement in the very least) do not stop. They continue to look for victims and most of them are very good at it. Once the allegation was made to the coaches they had a responsibility to have it investigated if only to protect other young women.

Again my reason for posting was to say that for whatever happened to you I hope you find peace with what happened and that you are comforted by the fact that people hear what you have said and believe you and wish you well.

 

[Skater Boy]

Regardless of this thread Skater Boy can I just say I am sorry for what happened to you and that it lead to such painful repercussions for you? I agree with you that Morgan and the coaches have the right to be innocent until proven guilty if this comes to court. Public opinion is different though. People will form their conclusions on the evidence that is before them but none of our opinions will send him to jail or convict him. Only a court can do that. It is natural for people to form opinions even if all the evidence has not be made available yet.

Where I differ is in the fact that once the allegation is made about a person in cases of childhood sexual abuse (luring for example) it is necessary for adults to act quickly to protect the child. People complained about Nassar and nothing was done and he continued to abuse young gymnasts for years. Sexual predators (and I'm not saying Morgan is one but if he is sending pornography to a 13 year old one has to wonder at his judgement in the very least) do not stop. They continue to look for victims and most of them are very good at it. Once the allegation was made to the coaches they had a responsibility to have it investigated if only to protect other young women.

Again my reason for posting was to say that for whatever happened to you I hope you find peace with what happened and that you are comforted by the fact that people hear what you have said and believe you and wish you well.

Thank you Ancient. I can say that this girl or girls regardless of what can be proven in whatever venue needs to be respect, believed and supported. If it is true there were comments about her being a pretty girl and dressing a certain way and thus "asking for it" - then our society has gone back to the cave people days. I really hope regardless of what happens to all these people apparently involved that she is encouraged and supported emotionally, physically. I am SO SORRY anyone has to go through this. Sometimes the perpetrators even though they did it do get "away". I am talking in general here. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. A young person especially can't "ask for it. When I heard what was said to her it brought back memories. Horrible memories and I thought oh please someone let this girl know she is loved, believed and it isn't her fault. I don't want her to end up like me. No one told me it wasn't my fault and that I didn't deserve to be assaulted because in their mind I dressed like a " a prostitute like I was asking for it. I was praying in the chapel. I was so ashamed. No one believed me when I tried to explain why I was such a mess. THey said it was my imagination. The court of law or Safesport or whatever might not give the ruling we expect but what this girl is going through is real. I asked about her training because I hope she going on with her life and healing. I never sang again in the same way and I literally lost what would have been my career and gave up my name. So I do have compassion for her. I hope the right people will surround her with love and support. It will be tough. I hope she doesn't end up like me; she doesn't deserve it. If she wants to skate I hope she can skate.

 

[ancientpeas]

your post.

I am very sorry for your loss. There are no platitudes I can offer except to say that here at Golden Skate there are many who have also been survivors. I know that they understand your pain. Those of us who have been through it and come out the other side know that there is a full and incredible life full of joy and I hope you find it. Living well, loving well is the best revenge on those who hurt us not so much because it hurts them but because it frees us from the past.

 

[beachmouse]

Men who send dick pics to minor CHILDREN are hardly bastions of courage. Cipres will most likely stay in France like the coward he is, knowing he cannot be extradited. Didier will probably set him up with a nice cushy job and they'll plan his competition schedule (assuming he still has a partner) around countries he cannot go.

The threshold for criminal extradition is often pretty high and one picture that does not appear to meet very specific criteria isn't going to do it. IMO, he's more likely to be told 'you need to arrange to have you apartment goods packed up and shipped back to France because you're no longer welcome in America'

 

[SmallAminal]

I feel very sorry for this girl. Whether these *specific* allegations turn out to be true (to be determined), I highly suspect she has been the victim of some sort of abuse.

There is a phenomenon with abuse victims where sometimes they make "false" allegations (either suggested by their real abuser or as a subconscious cry for help while they are still under the control of an abuser) that are actually a reference to something else that is *very real* going on with another person. So I think its *possible* that this specific allegation did not actually happen the way it is presented; however I really do think she is a victim of some kind of abuse. Also, if it turns out this is the case, its important not to blame her - again she's a child and she may be manipulated or groomed by someone and its not her fault. That's how abusers operate. Either way, it is so sad and I hope that she gets the support and help she needs - she was failed on many levels.

There was a case of a girl being groomed and abused by her super-creepy teacher and she ended up "falsely" (I don't like that word here, but not sure what else to use) accuse her dad of abuse. It turned out to be her subconscious way of letting the world know something was going on while her brain was still confused (due to grooming and manipulation) about her teacher. It was not her fault - this happened because someone bad was manipulating her and she was being groomed, but just to point out that this type of thing can happen.