2014-2015 GPF Mens Short Program 12/12

[satine]

How did Yuzuru not get -3's across the board for the fall on the combo?

Judges frequently will give -2s instead of the mandatory -3 if there are other positive features for the jumping pass :confused2:

 

[beki]

I hate to see the judges sour people on Hanyu the way they did with Patrick Chan. It's like they have to anoint one favorite and annoy everyone with it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yuzuru got SIX -3 for his 3z3T while Tatsuki got TWO -3 for his combo.

Yes. And Hanyu should have gotten NINE -3s for his 3Z3T(fall), while Tatsuki should get NO -3's for his combo. There's absolutely no justifying Hanyu's -2's with the leans on both of those jumps... if he had an absolutely perfect 3Z+3T and then fell off his blade, sure, a -2 would be generous but marginally justifiable... but the quality of both jumps in the combo were subpar to begin with.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I'm really pleased that on the score sheets I see NO < or << for anyone for the men's SP!

 

[gioccia]

I may have a lot of negative replies, but it still feels wrong when someone lands a 4-3,3,3a or 4-3,4!,3a and goes far behind someone who has a 4,3a,3-3 and a FALL!!! I think the scoring system is wrong, PCS should be twice lower in comparison with TES. Don't get me wrong... I do like Hanyu, he's my most dearest skater, but...it's sports, it's wrong. Or can you reassure me? Yulia getting punished more severly for an edge call than a fall! Elena, I think, is the most talented skater of the current ladies, she may not have boobs but she has the best artistry and the most difficult transitions, how come boobs are equal PCS boost? Someone looks like a woman, but does she skate well enough. I never get it. Take gymnasts, for instance, it doesn't mean how mature, how old, how long you've been in the field.... Look at US champions coming and going, the only thing that matters is that at this presice moment you've given it all.
It's getting more and more ridiculous when messy programs with falls and 3-2 in women or 3-3 in men are worthy medals versus younger but stronger athletes getting underscored. You're supposed to get more mature, be able to land cleaner jumps, having more transitions in and out of the elements, performing more difficult things that take take time to practice, having more artistry, being able to cope better with the pressure, becoming more solid... but in this spoty it's giving up on TES. You just don't need them any more, you can fall, your PCS will make it up for you...
Take men's OLY's as an example... Could you imagine Hanyu or Chan winning back in 1998-2006 with that technical content???

 

[satine]

I'm really pleased that on the score sheets I see NO < or << for anyone for the men's SP!

That is something to be happy about :yes:

 

[Macassar88]

Judges frequently will give -2s instead of the mandatory -3 if there are other positive features for the jumping pass :confused2:

but there weren't other positive features
Even the triple lutz on its own was -1 with the lean

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Bottom line... 94 points for a program with a fall is absolutely ridiculous. No skater from Hanyu to Chan to Takahashi to anyone should be allowed to fall and get 94 points.

I mean, it's the highest SP score we've seen this season... and there have been several clean short programs.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

but there weren't other positive features
Even the triple lutz on its own was -1 with the lean

This.

 

[Sandpiper]

Somebody above mentioned that the skating order hurt him. Apparently, skating right after Hanyu makes everyone look in 6.25 range.

But the judges aren't goldfish. Surely they still remember Hanyu's performance (and Voronov's performance) by the time Kovtun skates?

 

[HanDomi]

Bottom line... 94 points for a program with a fall is absolutely ridiculous. No skater from Hanyu to Chan to Takahashi to anyone should be allowed to fall and get 94 points.

I mean, it's the highest SP score we've seen this season... and there have been several clean short programs.

But you are coming with point that all skaters present the same quality, so then I can agree. But Hanyu clean SP quality is at 100 points, and here he got 94, not 100. By your point of view you are saying that Kovtun and Voronov for example are presenting the same quality so they should be ahead of Hanyu, isn't ?

 

[Alba]

But the judges aren't goldfish. Surely they still remember Hanyu's performance (and Voronov's performance) by the time Kovtun skates?

:thumbsup: and how could you not remember.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I hate to see the judges sour people on Hanyu the way they did with Patrick Chan. It's like they have to anoint one favorite and annoy everyone with it.

Truer words. And it's unfortunate because it makes people rue the skater instead of the judges. Hanyu skated a brilliant program other than the fall and he should certainly be in the lead, but not by 7 points.

And I'm STILL pissed that Voronov had the only clean skate and yet he's in 4th, 10 points off Hanyu. And while I feel bad for Fernandez, Mura should be ahead of him IMO.

 

[whatif]

we should not compare scores across different comps. Hanyu's score should reflect the competition on the night and which does not exactly by about 5-6 points, IMO.

 

[sunnystars]

Coffee break!
here's PChiddy's SP in TEB 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCkICx4L-yI

In all seriousness though, I think Yuzuru is scored fairly. I do think his score should be a bit lower due to the fall but overall, his presentation and whatnot were excellent.

 

[satine]

but there weren't other positive features
Even the triple lutz on its own was -1 with the lean

This.

They frequently do it, didn't say I agreed with it.

 

[whatif]

But the judges aren't goldfish. Surely they still remember Hanyu's performance (and Voronov's performance) by the time Kovtun skates?

That's like a century in skating terms.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

we should not compare scores across different comps. Hanyu's score should reflect the competition on the night and which does not exactly by about 5-6 points, IMO.

True, every skater's scores should reflect the performances on the night, and not what they're capable of.

 

[kimganos]

I can easily explain you why.


1) Hanyu had 4 levels on everything
2) His PCS was lower than Machida at SA
3) He made fall on rotated 3T at the end of 3Lz combo in 2nd half. It's not that harsh mistake as fall on 3A or 4T
4. ) If he would land this combo he would have been very close to break 100 again ( his top PCS from last season is at 47, here he got 43, so with clean skate he for sure would receive higher )
5. ) Skating quality, and overall performance was still superb and he didn't let fall affect this

Good observation!

 

[rollerblade]

Well I think the BESp guys got it. They were saying something like there's no way Hanyu will land the 3T, so the right/smart thing to do is to go for the full rotation. Minimize the points loss for the fall. It's better than eeking out an badly landed 2T or abandoning the combo. His layout was also very smart, putting both his 3A (monster GOE) and the combo after the half.

I have no idea how 6x(-3) and 3x(-2) yields a -1.9 GOE, clearly I suck at math.