noskates;1036212 His choreo is beautiful said:Shouldn't competition programs look good? That's the way to get new fans and keep old ones. Skaters flopping and contorting and splatting all over is not attractive, IMO , and won't attract fans.
noskates;1036212 His choreo is beautiful said:Shouldn't competition programs look good? That's the way to get new fans and keep old ones. Skaters flopping and contorting and splatting all over is not attractive, IMO , and won't attract fans.
I think Jeremy definitely peaked several years ago
Jeremy has a PCS cushion on all the other guys (except maybe Jason?), but the tech content, and I'm not just talking the quad, needs work.
This is also only his second competition of the season for Jeremy-which is part of the problem. He should have been out to other competitions for feedback, and to get mileage on the programs. The LP in general has been a weakness of his the last few years. Not sure why.
I think if you take Jeremy's free skate on its own and not think too much about the result of said skate, a few things stand out to me.
1.) Jeremy only has four jumping passes in the second half and only four triples (3A, 3F-1L-3S, 3Z, 2A). He popped one of them, so he only had 3 triples in the second half. Compare that to Hanyu, who has a 3A-3T, 3A-1L-3S, 3Z-2T, 3Lo, 3Z (7 triples). Even though he popped the second 3A, he still did the other six jumps.
The other US men's planned 2nd half
Jason Brown: 3Lo, 3A, 3F-3T, 3Z (and he could opt to do the 1L-3S combo, as he did in Russia), 2A (5 or 6 triples)
Max Aaron: 3A-2T, 3A, 3T-1L-3S, 3Z, 3Lo (6 triples)
Richard Dornbush: 3A-3T, 3Z-2T-2L, 3F-2T, 3L, 3S (6 triples)
Adam Rippon: 3F-3Lo, 3Z-2T, 3Z, 3S, 3T (6 triples)
Stephen Carriere: 3Z, 3Lo, 3S, 3F (4 triples)
Edited to add Nathan Chen: 3Z-2Lo-2Lo, 3F-3T, 3Lo, 3Z, 2A , 3S (6 triples)
2.) The spin levels are a problem. No level 4 spins. Two level 2 spins. Hanyu got at least one level 4 spin (other two were level 3) Even if you're not the best spinner in the world, you can manage to to make level 4 happen.
3.) The fact that Jeremy didn't understand his score until he read the protocols is also a bit telling. I see coaches counting rotations and checking features in real-time and usually they have a pretty good idea of the level when they're done. They might be a debate between a level (i.e. level 3 v. level 4) but they can definitely tell if they zero-out on a non-jump element or they lost a few levels.
His SP skate is actually better constructed with a 3A in the second half. But again, he gives away points with spin levels.
Jeremy has a PCS cushion on all the other guys (except maybe Jason?), but the tech content, and I'm not just talking the quad, needs work.
So blame Sandra Bezic and his coaches rather than Jeremy. And saying that Jason is the exception for a PCS cushion is laughable. Normally, Jeremy does have level 4 spins.(and no I'm not talking about NHK LP this season).
Those surprised at Jeremy having level 2 or 3 spins here shouldn't be.
Not being a reliably good spinner is as big or a bigger flaw than lacking a reliable quad, IMO, but one surely cannot blame Jeremy for deliberately not getting spin levels here in NHK because Jeremy has never been a reliably strong spinner. When he is struggling with a program, his spins and even his step sequences suffer as well as his jumps.
Here he had two level 2 spins and one level 3 spin
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf
He also had 2 level 3 spins in the SP.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SP_Scores.pdf
Step sequences in both the short and long were level 3.
Looking back at Skate America, where one might expect a more lenient panel.
in the SP he had two level 3 spins, but did manage level 4 in the step
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SP_Scores.pdf
In the LP he managed two level 4 spins, one level 3 spin, and a level 4 step.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf
SP Skate America 2012 SP
One level 2, two level 3 spins, level 2 step
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SP_Scores.pdf
LP Skate America 2012- one level 2, one level 3, one level 4 spin
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf
Well, what doesn't attract you has attracted many other fans as recent as this past weekend at NHK. There have been many that have told him this past weekend that his skating at NHK made them fans.Generally I like to support older skaters and I think people have the right to retire when they want, but I think Jeremy definitely peaked several years ago and there is nothing about his skating that would attract me now as a new fan. Putting the lack of tech content aside, the dreary music, his costumes that look like he picked them out of the laundry hamper, and the scrubby facial hair are all major turnoffs. When he looks like he just rolled out of bed a few minutes before the competition, it only adds to the impression that he does not have the mentality of a winner.
He was smart and thought on his feet. If the quads weren't going, then why try them in the program. It worked in the SP didn't it?!Perhaps I should have worded it differently. By "less than honest" I meant Jeremy not going for all his jumps. His choreo is beautiful, there is no doubt about it. But like was said in the commentary, his LP looked like a show piece rather than a competition piece. I can personally blame Jeremy for not besting Hanyu. I didn't mean to imply that Jason is blaming him. But as usual, people read something, put their own spin on it and are then "off to the races." And yes, Jason could have skated better at Rostelecom. But skaters are human (remember?) and Jason had just been dealt a personal difficult blow by the death of his manager. He's a very sensitive young man and it definitely affected his performance. The bottom line for me is, no matter WHO was impacted by Jeremy's skate, I'm still over him. I've watched that young man for years and crossed my fingers and hoped and prayed he'd finally put it all together. He manages to do that at Nationals and then falls short internationally. And please don't anyone start quoting his placements internationally over the past 5-7 years. I don't care anymore. He's one of the most talented men out there and he continues to skate with his head instead of his feet. There are few men, very few, with the grace and delivery that Jeremy has and his interpretation of his music. But he is not a competitor. And if you want to call my opinion absurd.....whatever!!!!
If he stays in til Nationals, I hope he re-gains a quad or two, and brings the spin and step levels up.
On a positive note, his PCS is up this year and he looks much calmer and more secure and in control while skating.
I don't think he'll make the World Team again....he'll be held down.
IDK where you are seeing that the LP has been his "weakness for the last few years." He skated his exogenesis program last season and even though it wasn't as good as the version he skated in 11-12 (Damn tech requirements butchered the choreog). It was still fantastic. The last time I remember him having a bad time with his LP was back when he was having boot troubles.This is also only his second competition of the season for Jeremy-which is part of the problem. He should have been out to other competitions for feedback, and to get mileage on the programs. The LP in general has been a weakness of his the last few years. Not sure why.
Part of this I'll agree with. The latter though...I'm not blaming Jeremy for anything, geez. I'm just observing that he lacks a lot of technical content in the second half relative to his competitors.
And again, I'm not saying that Jason SHOULD be the exception for a PCS cushion, I'm saying that he might be based on how they are ACTUALLY scoring internationally.
Jeremy has been hit and miss on levels on spins. This is not the first time he has missed levels on spins. Doris pointed this out earlier in the thread (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Skate-11-29&p=1034522&viewfull=1#post1034522)
Those surprised at Jeremy having level 2 or 3 spins here shouldn't be.
Not being a reliably good spinner is as big or a bigger flaw than lacking a reliable quad, IMO, but one surely cannot blame Jeremy for deliberately not getting spin levels here in NHK because Jeremy has never been a reliably strong spinner. When he is struggling with a program, his spins and even his step sequences suffer as well as his jumps.
I don't mind a bit if Jeremy put on himself those gaudy costumes that Yuzuru often wears. I don't mind the Pooh bear as well. What's the problem? If Brian Orser has the courage to carry Pooh bear around, then all the younger men should have it. What matters is what Jeremy put on ice when it's matters international. And he rarely does.Well, what doesn't attract you has attracted many other fans a recent as this past weekend at NHK. There have been many that have told him this past weekend that his skating at NHK made them fans.
As far as the facial hair and the costumes, what's it matter?! As long as he likes it? Also, I'll take his facial hair and current costumes over the gaudy crap that Hanyu and others wear. Also, at least he isn't carrying a freakin' Pooh bear around wherever he goes..
Part of this I'll agree with. The latter though...
Well, what doesn't attract you has attracted many other fans as recent as this past weekend at NHK. There have been many that have told him this past weekend that his skating at NHK made them fans.
As far as the facial hair and the costumes, what's it matter?! As long as he likes it? Also, I'll take his facial hair and current costumes over the gaudy crap that Hanyu and others wear. Also, at least he isn't carrying a freakin' Pooh bear around wherever he goes.
Why say Jeremy's styling/personal choices need not be brought up but then mention Yuzuru's?? That's hypocritical.
I'm not the only one in this thread that made the comparison with Hanyu and others. I was giving my opinion that I'd rather see him in what he's wearing than something out of Miss Piggy's closet.
It would be better to discuss the flaws, strengths, and fortunes of American men in the State of the U.S. Men thread here
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...e-of-the-U-S-Men-s-Figure-Skating-for-2014-15
rather than in the NHK Men's LP thread.