2015-16 Grand Prix Final Mens SP

[solani]

Quad axel

The question still is if that's even possible. I read an article about physics and figure skating a couple of years ago that article said that the quad axel was the limit, so everything must be perfect for it to work. No one has ever landed a quad axel, so I doubt wether it's humanly possible to have a stable one in competition. Maybe the quad lutz is the limit. Hanyu has already great combinations, but maybe there is room for improvement there. Would a 3A-1L-4S or a 3A-4T be possible? Wouldn't that look great?

 

[t.mann]

Yuzu is peaking now and I am happy to witness that. But again, comparing his situation with the others' after their peak sounds unfair to me.

Agree.
Chan at peak was The One who opened the Quad‘s age among male skaters again.
Kim at peak was the only lady who had always tried two 3-3s in her all competitions.
(Also one cannot say that at 11Worlds, Kim with one 3-3 success lost to Ando with two 3-2s because of resting on safe layouts as OC.)

That said, I think Hanyu has more competitive spirits and ambition to make history in skating ability or career than Chan & Kim. Like Plushenko.
While I think Chan might have retired early like Kulik if he had become 10OC, I can imagine easily Hanyu might be dreaming 3 times OC privately & cautiously.

 

[Sugarpova]

lol TAT cracked me up yesterday with her 'Chan just came back from vacation...1 year vacation' :rofl2:

That said, I think Hanyu has more competitive spirits and ambition to make history in skating ability or career than Chan & Kim. Like Plushenko.

considering Plu is his hero I pretty much agree
He's already making history & will continue to do so

 

[da96103]

Is Miss/Mdm Elaine Zayak still alive? If she gets an itch every time her name is mentioned, she would be covered with scabs now.

 

[da96103]

I can imagine easily Hanyu might be dreaming 3 times OC privately & cautiously.

I think Hanyu is killing two birds with one Orser stone, whether Orser realizes it or not. Learning skating and learning how to teach skating.

Twenty two years from now, in a futuristic looking Kiss and Cry.

Japanese skater: Senpai Hanyu, I won.
Yuzu: Well, that's not enough, at your age, I was already doing this and that. Now practice at 6am tomorrow.
Japanese skater: But I just won the Olympic Gold. (sniff)

 

[blue_idealist]

I know Challenge probably had grandly inflated scores, but interestingly, Nicolas Nadeau and Kevin Reynolds scored higher in the SP than Chan managed to yesterday. While Chan will likely still win Nationals, he might find himself behind at least Nam Nguyen after the short if he keeps doing such poor shorts.

 

[iskate]

Late to the party here but OMG YUZURU. What a machine!

If I'd been in his shoes (or, well, in his skates, I guess), after those amazing skates at NHK I would have completely caved under the pressure to repeat them. But not Yuzu, he went out there and did it even better. :shocked: And he only got a level 3 on his step sequence, so there is still room for improvement!

If he can have another phenomenal skate and break his own world record a third time in a row at his next comp...well, I will completely worship him. Actually, even if he can skate another amazing FS tomorrow, I will be amazed at his amazingness.

 

[lavender]

I don't have a problem with the 10s. Everything was performed flawlessly. I can't think of another skater who has performed a program without earning a single +1 score from any judge in GOE. I enjoy watching a flawless Patrick a bit more because to me he has a better line and carriage, but Yuzu's combination of artistry and technical content was magnificent to see.

I agree and this is coming from a Hanyu, Javi and Chan fan.

It's awesome being a fan of all 3.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Is Miss/Mdm Elaine Zayak still alive? If she gets an itch every time her name is mentioned, she would be covered with scabs now.

Alive and coaching in New Jersey the last I heard.

 

[Esopian]

another world record by Yuzuru like its nothing we knew he had what it takes to be a top men but he wasnt able to do clean programs, but now it seems like his body has finally caught up with the crazy ideas and goals he has on that beautiful mind of his and he is on top of his game (or maybe not even 100% yet!) to quote Chris from BESP "i thought i had seen the best, i thought i had seen all i was gonna see this season in the NHK Trophy" and yet we still think about "can he top that? is there still room?" then he does once again, it is amazing
and not just how he performs on the ice, they way he held back after seeing his score, telling audience to calm down bc Javier was next, what a kind soul and one of the reasons i love him

about Patrick, it wasnt a bad skate actually but i wonder if skaters actually look other skater's protocols, cause its really a shame when your main rival makes a mistake and you do the same mistake a month later, you dont have to study rule book with you when you have an example right in front of you,
there is no shame in studying your rivals, look at Yuzuru, he is like a spunge, collecting best of skaters

Love your comment! :thumbsup: Especially when you use the analogy of Yuzuru collecting and studying the strengths of his competitors as a sponge of sorts. It's never a bad thing to look at what other's are doing really well and not be afraid to learn from them.

So from studying Patrick, Yuzuru was motivated to improve his skating skills back in the day. And now when Boyang, the jumping bean, emerged --Yuzu raised the technical bar higher to challenge him. Who'll be next?

 

[matmuh]

Love your comment! :thumbsup: Especially when you use the analogy of Yuzuru collecting and studying the strengths of his competitors as a sponge of sorts. It's never a bad thing to look at what other's are doing really well and not be afraid to learn from them.

So from studying Patrick, Yuzuru was motivated to improve his skating skills back in the day. And now when Boyang, the jumping bean, emerged --Yuzu raised the technical bar higher to challenge him. Who'll be next?

whats even more awesome is that it doesnt matter what age his competitors are ( doesnt even need to be his competitor really, he said he learned 3A from Mao) , from youngest to oldest, he is shameless when it comes to learning from others

 

[Bumdid]

Deleted

 

[cruzceleste]

Question, could Patrick have done a 3toe3toe combination?

 

[da96103]

Question, could Patrick have done a 3toe3toe combination?

He could if it was possible, but the pop of the first jump kills off the momentum for a second jump to be tagged on. He landed straight down from so high at the end of the third revolution with not enough horizontal momentum.

 

[cruzceleste]

He could if it was possible, but the pop of the first jump kills off the momentum for a second jump to be tagged on. He landed straight down from so high at the end of the third revolution with not enough horizontal momentum.

Thank you.
So, he can repeat the same jump in combination, but since it was 3TOE, 3LUTZ3TOE, the second is not accounted. Ok, now I get it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Wait, isn't that what Patrick tried to do? He was supposed to have a 4T-3T and did only a 3T, but since he also did a 3Lz-3T, the second toe invalidated the whole combo? Or do you mean he should've added the toe to the axel - wouldn't that also have invalidated that combo?

If my understanding of the rules is correct, the only option after his single 3T would've been if he did the combination with a 2T so as not to repeat the jump. I feel like someone actually did this sometime this season, but I don't remember who.

My point was the idea of not doing a triple-TRIPLE toe after you've tripled your opening quad toe should be second nature (just like, say, in Ladies or in Men's in the past, if you mess up your opening combo, the norm is to put a combo later on, even if it's just a 3-2). Mathman makes a good point of you don't want to do a runthrough thinking that you will have to do a backup plan but you also have to play smart. Hanyu goes for broke... if he fails on his 4T, then he gets deducted for not doing a combo, doesn't get points for the triple, and he gets -GOE for the error - which is a huuuuge risk (but obviously pays off if he hits the 4T+3T).

I remember Gold once dis a 3S+1T because she had already done two 2Ts in her freeskate, and other skaters have done the same with the new rule in the FS that you can't have more than 2 of the same double jump.

Oda has had problems with Zayaking (turning a quad to a 3T, and then invalidating later combos with -3T).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Question, could Patrick have done a 3toe3toe combination?

He could have done that if he had enough speed after the 4T turned 3T, but he didn't. In fact, it wasn't even going to be a pretty 2T had he tried it. So he should have saved the 2T for his lutz and then at least gotten +GOE on the 2T (whereas with a botched quad, the GOE applied to the combination would have been lower), and it would have been in the 2nd half, so slightly more points.

 

[cruzceleste]

He could have done that if he had enough speed after the 4T turned 3T, but he didn't. In fact, it wasn't even going to be a pretty 2T had he tried it. So he should have saved the 2T for his lutz and then at least gotten +GOE on the 2T (whereas with a botched quad, the GOE applied to the combination would have been lower), and it would have been in the 2nd half, so slightly more points.

Got it. Thank you.

 

[da96103]

This is what coaches should tell their skaters (esp if the skater does not like to read the rule book)

Your planned jumps are
4T + 3T
3A
3Lz

If you pop 4T into 3T, you can do the combo on the lutz
3T
3A
3Lz + 2T / 3Lz + 3Lo / 3Lz + 2Lo but not 3Lz + 3T (Patrick's GPF mistake)

If you pop 4T into 2T, you can do the combo on the lutz
2T
3A
3Lz + 3T / 3Lz + 3Lo / 3Lz + 2Lo but not 3Lz + 2T (Hanyu's SC mistake)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

For the SP, it's quite simple, really: remember what first (non-axel) jump you ended up executing. Make every effort to not repeat that jump. You have 3 jumping passes, and often the 3rd pass is in the second half, so it's not like you have to play mental math or don't have time to think on your feet.

Part of me thinks that this error is simply because Chan usually never misses the *attempt* of a 4T as his opening pass. Even if the quad is flawed, he will still do 4 rotations and thus never has to worry about Zayaking (he only has to worry about missing the quad and then remembering to do a combo with the lutz after). But tripling or doubling the opening quad is extremely rare for him (at least compared to him in the past), so Zayaking is a new issue.