2015 World Pairs Free Skate March 26

[eli60056]

V/T will NOT be back. S/K WILL upgrade the content. And I suspect there will be two new RUS teams with BIG technical content next year, not sure if it's T/M.

Is this your own prediction or is it actually based on any statement by them? Thanks.

 

[wallylutz]

Sui and Han will soon have two quads and improving artistry not even D and R can compete with that

I will believe it when I see it. It wouldn't be a bad idea by starting with the first one in competition - Quad Twist doesn't count as a Quad. And then they will have to do SBS 3LZ, which it is highly doubtful either of them can even do. Chinese Pair skaters, unlike their North American peers, are bred as traditional Pairs skaters - meaning they are strong at Pairs elements but weak at Singles elements. Chinese skaters rarely ever do anything more difficult than a Triple Salchow and the gap between doing that and a Triple Lutz is immense. This means, unless they can master SBS 3Lz as well, which we know, they won't, they are going to compete in the SP stage with a major disadvantage since you can't do Quad throw in the SP - not that they have even done one yet. So if the Worlds and 4CC is any indication, that gap can be anywhere from 6-7 points up to 10+ points - going into the LP - a tall order to catch up.

What Sui/Han needs the most is to develop their attention to details, aka. improving their presentation and delivery. In many respects, they still look like a Junior team with big tricks. That much is evident in the British Eurosport commentary which I concur. While upgrading their arsenals is a noble goal, it is questionable however whether that should be their focus as this could become a problem of "focusing on the tree but missing the forrest".

Again, it all comes back to a question of consistency and handling pressure, which is easier said than done. D/R have really proven they manage pressure well, as their performances are very consistent - no mistakes in the SP, followed by a mostly free LP with no major error to speak of. They have been doing that for several competitions in a row while under pressure to show they can handle it.

Pairs skating will likely starting to emphasize on more difficult elements but the change will likely not happen very rapidly because it will require a rewrite aka. reprogramming the way pairs skaters work. For North American skaters who are also accustomed to singles skating, that will be a little easier but for the Chinese and the Russians, I don't think so. As great as Trankov was, he will never be able to do a Triple Lutz. So he can bad mouth his competitors all he wants, but he can never match their technical content.

 

[MsLiinaLii]

S/K already know that which is why they took worlds off, to make those changes. I wonder if T/M will follow suit, surely a quad twist is possible. But with her height I wouldn't want to try a quad throw.

They said in an interview that they will learn quad twist, but not quad throw cause it is too dangerous. They have already decided on that.

 

[robinhood]

I will believe it when I see it. It wouldn't be a bad idea by starting with the first one in competition - Quad Twist doesn't count as a Quad. And then they will have to do SBS 3LZ, which it is highly doubtful either of them can even do. Chinese Pair skaters, unlike their North American peers, are bred as traditional Pairs skaters - meaning they are strong at Pairs elements but weak at Singles elements. Chinese skaters rarely ever do anything more difficult than a Triple Salchow and the gap between doing that and a Triple Lutz is immense. This means, unless they can master SBS 3Lz as well, which we know, they won't, they are going to compete in the SP stage with a major disadvantage since you can't do Quad throw in the SP - not that they have even done one yet. So if the Worlds and 4CC is any indication, that gap can be anywhere from 6-7 points up to 10+ points - going into the LP - a tall order to catch up.

What Sui/Han needs the most is to develop their attention to details, aka. improving their presentation and delivery. In many respects, they still look like a Junior team with big tricks. That much is evident in the British Eurosport commentary which I concur. While upgrading their arsenals is a noble goal, it is questionable however whether that should be their focus as this could become a problem of "focusing on the tree but missing the forrest".

Again, it all comes back to a question of consistency and handling pressure, which is easier said than done. D/R have really proven they manage pressure well, as their performances are very consistent - no mistakes in the SP, followed by a mostly free LP with no major error to speak of. They have been doing that for several competitions in a row while under pressure to show they can handle it.

Pairs skating will likely starting to emphasize on more difficult elements but the change will likely not happen very rapidly because it will require a rewrite aka. reprogramming the way pairs skaters work. For North American skaters who are also accustomed to singles skating, that will be a little easier but for the Chinese and the Russians, I don't think so. As great as Trankov was, he will never be able to do a Triple Lutz. So he can bad mouth his competitors all he wants, but he can never match their technical content.

Maybe they will change the rules and allow to do quad throws and twists in the sp....I don't understand why they can't, actually...

 

[4everchan]

I will believe it when I see it. It wouldn't be a bad idea by starting with the first one in competition - Quad Twist doesn't count as a Quad. And then they will have to do SBS 3LZ, which it is highly doubtful either of them can even do. Chinese Pair skaters, unlike their North American peers, are bred as traditional Pairs skaters - meaning they are strong at Pairs elements but weak at Singles elements. Chinese skaters rarely ever do anything more difficult than a Triple Salchow and the gap between doing that and a Triple Lutz is immense. This means, unless they can master SBS 3Lz as well, which we know, they won't, they are going to compete in the SP stage with a major disadvantage since you can't do Quad throw in the SP - not that they have even done one yet. So if the Worlds and 4CC is any indication, that gap can be anywhere from 6-7 points up to 10+ points - going into the LP - a tall order to catch up.

What Sui/Han needs the most is to develop their attention to details, aka. improving their presentation and delivery. In many respects, they still look like a Junior team with big tricks. That much is evident in the British Eurosport commentary which I concur. While upgrading their arsenals is a noble goal, it is questionable however whether that should be their focus as this could become a problem of "focusing on the tree but missing the forrest".

Again, it all comes back to a question of consistency and handling pressure, which is easier said than done. D/R have really proven they manage pressure well, as their performances are very consistent - no mistakes in the SP, followed by a mostly free LP with no major error to speak of. They have been doing that for several competitions in a row while under pressure to show they can handle it.

Pairs skating will likely starting to emphasize on more difficult elements but the change will likely not happen very rapidly because it will require a rewrite aka. reprogramming the way pairs skaters work. For North American skaters who are also accustomed to singles skating, that will be a little easier but for the Chinese and the Russians, I don't think so. As great as Trankov was, he will never be able to do a Triple Lutz. So he can bad mouth his competitors all he wants, but he can never match their technical content.

 

[wallylutz]

S/K already know that which is why they took worlds off, to make those changes. I wonder if T/M will follow suit, surely a quad twist is possible. But with her height I wouldn't want to try a quad throw.

For S/K, they don't even have a consistent Triple Toe while their 2nd SBS is merely a pair of Double Axels. They too are a case of classic pair skaters who are weak in singles elements. It seems unrealistic to expect they will be doing to Triple Lutzes in a few months. Unless they have been trained as Singles, which we know, that's not how Russian Pairs skaters are brought up, at their age, it's going to be extremely difficult to learn a Triple Lutz now. Contrasting to the fact that pretty much all the top Canadian Pairs skaters, especially the women, are all strong singles skaters, Julianne Séguin, Jessica Dubé, Meghan Duhamel and etc., you can really see their strengths and weaknesses vs. the Russian women. The Russian women may have the advantage of classic pairs training, the lines, smoothness, more balletic, but they can't do the more difficult Triple jumps - they are not trained for that. I think it's dangerous for them to try to change their long-standing winning approach based on a knee-jerk reaction from losing a few competitions.

 

[wallylutz]

V/T will NOT be back. S/K WILL upgrade the content. And I suspect there will be two new RUS teams with BIG technical content next year, not sure if it's T/M.

Trankov apparently is on record in front of national TV in Russia saying he will be back as recent as a couple of days ago. He doesn't seem like the type who doesn't make good of what he says, I think he is too proud of a person to do that. Plus, if he was ready to retire, then there was no need for him to have two new programs made like they did this year. After all, that costs money and time. Now, his injury may worsen and he later decides it's too much trouble, entirely possible, but as of today, not only they have not retired, he clearly stated his intention of coming back in no uncertain terms.

 

[Sandpiper]

I will believe it when I see it. It wouldn't be a bad idea by starting with the first one in competition - Quad Twist doesn't count as a Quad. And then they will have to do SBS 3LZ, which it is highly doubtful either of them can even do. Chinese Pair skaters, unlike their North American peers, are bred as traditional Pairs skaters - meaning they are strong at Pairs elements but weak at Singles elements. Chinese skaters rarely ever do anything more difficult than a Triple Salchow and the gap between doing that and a Triple Lutz is immense. This means, unless they can master SBS 3Lz as well, which we know, they won't, they are going to compete in the SP stage with a major disadvantage since you can't do Quad throw in the SP - not that they have even done one yet. So if the Worlds and 4CC is any indication, that gap can be anywhere from 6-7 points up to 10+ points - going into the LP - a tall order to catch up.

Why is a quad twist not a quad? Also, if you know anything about S/H, you'll know that they've performed quad throws for many seasons in the past.

S/H now have a silver medal at Worlds, which D/R didn't even have last year. Just for consistency's sake, I hope you dismissed D/R just as much prior to this season.

 

[Skater Boy]

Not winning medal one year is not a big deal. The Russian fed had enough confidence in their skaters and they had the chance to medal, if K&S skated clean. They have the luxury to let young teams have the experience. I'm a S&K fan but I was very happy to see A&R, a new team, and T&M skate like that at their first Worlds Champ. Their 3, 4 and 5 team get 5th, 6th and 10th place and secure 3 spots. I say that's pretty great. No other country can afford that (maybe just China to a certain extent), and there are other teams in working progress so who knows what will come out.

Or was it Russia 4, 5 and 6 we saw considering the third world team from Russia last year is out due to Antipova's illness.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Why is a quad twist not a quad? Also, if you know anything about S/H, you'll know that they've performed quad throws for many seasons in the past.

S/H now have a silver medal at Worlds, which D/R didn't even have last year. Just for consistency's sake, I hope you dismissed D/R just as much prior to this season.

A lot of people dismissed D/R and S/H last season. Many said D/R couldn't do better than bronze... and I'm sure few would have though S/H would have podiumed this year (and yes, D/R very likely would have won even if S/K had competed, and S/K would have been pressed to even beat S/H).

 

[skatemouse]

Maybe they will change the rules and allow to do quad throws and twists in the sp....I don't understand why they can't, actually...

It is actually a danger for Twist if they do not. The timing is so different if you can actually do the quad and the triple twist it is insane how good you are.
It just is incredibly dangerous if they body would pop or revert to a triple or quad when the other is not happening. It is mandatory for safety. It is beyond dumb and dangerous for this rule to even exist at SENIORS regardless so needs to change asap.

 

[UnChosen]

A way to get around the lack of SBS 3Lz and the inability to do quad twist/throw in the SP is to do the throw 3A in the SP. 3ATh is 2.0 points more than 3FTh/3LzTh, the same as the difference between SBS 3T and 3Lz.

Don't know how feasible that would be but it cannot be any worse than imitating D/R or relying on PCS to make up the difference, especially considering how PCS is used as a tech extension score nowadays.

Personally I find it silly how the judges are obviously encouraging technical skates but quad twists/throws are still illegal in the SP.

 

[whatif]

A lot of people dismissed D/R and S/H last season. Many said D/R couldn't do better than bronze... and I'm sure few would have though S/H would have podiumed this year (and yes, D/R very likely would have won even if S/K had competed, and S/K would have been pressed to even beat S/H).

I don't remember people dismissing D/R last season. They have always been mentioned as threat with that technical content. It's just nobody expected such a sudden draught in the Russian team with S/K meltdown and V/T retiring.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't remember people dismissing D/R last season. They have always been mentioned as threat with that technical content. It's just nobody expected such a sudden draught in the Russian team with S/K meltdown and V/T retiring.

I recall more than one person saying D/R will never win Worlds, citing that their artistry is lacking and mocking Meagan's build and all that tripe.

 

[4everchan]

yup... me too... i wasn't on this forum... but i read comments all over the web about this... people can be mean. D/R have worked so hard to push the technical content up and that's fine..some may prefer teams that only do toes and throw triple salchows and loops and that's fine but I like to see new technical achievements.... almost remind me of when people didn't like Elvis or Midori Ito... come on!!!! these guys may not have been the most gracious but they were AMAZING! and then, when a great skater with brilliant transitions comes in but misses a jump, others complain saying he is overscored (like Chan)... so??? nobody ever wins ! People are just haters

I recall more than one person saying D/R will never win Worlds, citing that their artistry is lacking and mocking Meagan's build and all that tripe.

 

[Sugarpova]

People are just haters

people just have different tastes

 

[4everchan]

there's a difference with having different tastes and trolling. In any case, history is giving D/R reason in more than one way... 1) they won. 2) other teams are saying they need to improve their technical content....S/K have made quite a statement in that sense skipping the season to prepare for the long term... it keeps the sport exciting to have different styles and it would be nice if people were respectful of others instead of trolling the skaters they don't like for whatever reason

people just have different tastes

 

[Sugarpova]

it keeps the sport exciting to have different styles

:yes:

I really made peace with the results personally
I'll always can go to utube & watch the pairs I like even though they may not get medals

speaking of
I need to go rewatch T/M

 

[4everchan]

good i will watch chan forever except the sotchi trainwreck

:yes:

I really made peace with the results personally
I'll always can go to utube & watch the pairs I like even though they may not get medals

speaking of
I need to go rewatch T/M

 

[slider11]

How much more can that little body (Yuko) take? She is 90 pounds of stretched ligaments and worn joints. Alex seems to not be in the best physical shape -he seems to be straining especially at the end. I really loved this year's program but I wonder how much longer they can compete.

So does that mean Kavaguti and Smirnov and V and T are both gone. Somehow I just wanted to see K and S win a world title or at least medal. Very sad for them; I know their pain is China's gain but still. I am not all that gloomy about D and R's win here. Besides there is more to be concerned about - what in the world is going on with ice dance? Yikes the scoring really was wonky.