2015 World Team Trophy Ladies SP Apr 16
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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Gracie in the LP will be worrisome but at Nationals and Worlds she has shown under pressure she can pull together an acceptable performance, we'll have to see
Ashley's Lutz got ratified but I would have given it a ! still, I'm sure she'll be working on it all summer though
Ashley's Lutz got ratified but I would have given it a ! still, I'm sure she'll be working on it all summer though
Happy to see Gracie leading and too bad she couldn't have put this out there at Worlds.
I watched her SP (thanks to Sabinfire) and was so happy to see her land her 3-3 and skate clean. She was THISCLOSE to the boards again but thankfully did not touch them. Frank seemed very happy and gave her a hug which was nice to see.
I watched her SP (thanks to Sabinfire) and was so happy to see her land her 3-3 and skate clean. She was THISCLOSE to the boards again but thankfully did not touch them. Frank seemed very happy and gave her a hug which was nice to see.
I don't like the phrase "the landing was cheated". It sounds as if it happend on purpose. Nobody would say that the skater fell on purpose. For me this is different compared to a wrong jump takeoff, this can be called "cheated".
Elizaveta and Mishin should thank Mao for doing the 3A all those years so that the ISU finally decided that the ladies can do either a 2A or a 3A in the short.
Found a link to Ashley's short program:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2muo4g_アシュリー-ワグナー-ashley-wagner-2015-world-team-trophy-sp_sport
I think she really captured the emotion of the music in this performance. Too bad about the flip!
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2muo4g_アシュリー-ワグナー-ashley-wagner-2015-world-team-trophy-sp_sport
I think she really captured the emotion of the music in this performance. Too bad about the flip!
+1 :thumbsup:
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
I need videos. 
for Gold, Lena, Ashley, Kana, and Gabby!
for Gold, Lena, Ashley, Kana, and Gabby!
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
I need videos.
https://www.youtube.com/user/sabinfire/videos (sabinfire's videos) Here you go. Ashley's wasn't uploaded due to music copyright
I must say I enjoyed more Liza's Sp with the 3A fall than the World's SP with the clean 3A. She was concentrated there and seemed slow and exhausted on the spins and stepsequence. Evereything looked very good here and quite unexpected given the fall which looked painful. I agree with her score and her placement. All the other elements looked so easy and clean and don't forget about the perfect 3-3 in the second part of the program. Who else dares to do that?
I loved Gracie, she finally did it. Her program looks so much better when clean and all elements seem to glue together. I hope she can keep it together fro the LP, even though I would like Liza to finish first.
Very beautiful 3lz-3t from Ashley but I can't understan what is happening with the 3F? She underroted it also at Worlds. If only she skated clean she were close to Gracie and Liza fighting for the first place.
For those who don't understand Elena's TES, look at her 3-3, it looks worse every time I see it. Very forward on the lutz, no flow, and muscled triple toe. I like Elena, it is impossible not to like her but there are many of her jumps that I don't like, and her posture but I can't blame her for that becauze I think it is her body type that gives her that posture and it's very hard to change it, and I don't like her music choices for this year. I really don't. I hope for better ones the next year.
I loved Gracie, she finally did it. Her program looks so much better when clean and all elements seem to glue together. I hope she can keep it together fro the LP, even though I would like Liza to finish first.
Very beautiful 3lz-3t from Ashley but I can't understan what is happening with the 3F? She underroted it also at Worlds. If only she skated clean she were close to Gracie and Liza fighting for the first place.
For those who don't understand Elena's TES, look at her 3-3, it looks worse every time I see it. Very forward on the lutz, no flow, and muscled triple toe. I like Elena, it is impossible not to like her but there are many of her jumps that I don't like, and her posture but I can't blame her for that becauze I think it is her body type that gives her that posture and it's very hard to change it, and I don't like her music choices for this year. I really don't. I hope for better ones the next year.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
This ^
The same rules apply to everyone. Some skaters play the game to their advantage. Some skaters don't (or can't), to their disadvantage - leaving their disgruntled fans to bemoan the "unfairness" of it all, on internet forums...
I have to agree with this. Wonder why there's disgruntlement over that despite falling on the 3A, Liza still was near level with GG. Let's face it. Tuks went for a freaking triple axel. It is not just the 3.5 turns but also the dangerous forward edge. The speed and strength needed for a 3.5 vs 2.5 is vastly higher for the 3A. She rotated it fully, didn't cheat, just the flow was bad and she got -3 GOEs and a 1 pt deduction. If other ladies attempt a 3A, they get the same privilege and risks as well, so how can this be considered unfair? If anything, they just need to find ways to stack up against the 3A. Otherwise, the women's event has already stayed technically stagnant for a long time. 3Lz 3T was a staple for Yamaguchi and Ito and other than a rare few 3lz3R, which lady has exceeded that technical challenge on jumps? For years, only Asada carried the 3A flag and now at least someone else like Tuks is pushing it. Kudos to Mishin for knowing how to make the best out of the rules. We hy fault them for playing to the advantage?
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- Mar 12, 2007
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I really enjoyed Gracie's performance! Not just going clean, but I felt she really performed the choreo. She hit pretty much all the music highlights and her moves were crisp and extended but flowing. I thought this was an organic, natural performance that didn't feel like just going through rehearsed motions at all. WTG Gracie and everyone for a great comp thus far!
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- Nov 12, 2009
Not only that, her score is a new US record ladies SP score
Gracie's skate and score were great here, but I hope she realizes after this that she does not have a chance to outscore a clean Liza SP with a 3a with her current layout. Didn't she say at Worlds, oh I wasn't nervous skating after Liza because I know I can get an even higher score than that without a 3a? Gracie was fabulous here, but she pretty much maxed out her points, 77+ is not happening for her without a 3a, not internationally anyway. I'm starting to think maybe she was confused at Worlds or something? Noone gets a 77+ score without a 3a, I'm not counting Yuna because her 78 was back when there was a spiral sequence. With the current SP format, even Yuna's highest was only a 74.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Got a chance to watch Gracie's performance. That opening combo still came perilously close to the boards (like it has almost all season) but she managed it! Although next season the ice layout of her jumps may really need changing. Her 3lutz-3toe covers so much distance and it's impressive, but the boards are an issue. I think the performance quality has improved a lot too (probably contributed to by skating clean and confident.) Go Gracie!
Kudos to Liza for rotating the 3A even though she fell, but her choreography/interpretation is lacking. It's not fantastic choreography to begin with, but I can get into it when she brings the Liza sass, which she lacked in this performance. She looks tired. Which is totally forgivable considering it's the end of the season and she's been competing nonstop, but she didn't deserve higher PCS than Gracie this time, IMO.
Kudos to Liza for rotating the 3A even though she fell, but her choreography/interpretation is lacking. It's not fantastic choreography to begin with, but I can get into it when she brings the Liza sass, which she lacked in this performance. She looks tired. Which is totally forgivable considering it's the end of the season and she's been competing nonstop, but she didn't deserve higher PCS than Gracie this time, IMO.
I agree re Liza. She really sold that program and made everyone forget about the fall. And her 3-3, though "only" a 3T-3T, is a beauty.
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- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Interesting ladies SP:
Gracie: It was really nice to see her deliver. I think that's only the second clean SP she's had this season; I was starting to think the program was cursed. I'm still really worried she jumps within 0.2 millimeters of the boards but she made it work today. It just goes to show that she doesn't need a 3A or 4S to compete at the top. Just imagine those kind of jumps with some interesting/refreshing choreography... Today was great but we all know the real test for Gracie is the FS. She's going to be skating last and will undoubtedly have to be clean. Less than 2.50 points separates 1st from 3rd which means she'll have to deliver under pressure. This is a less intense competition that is significantly less important in the grand scheme of things so hopefully she'll just cut loose and skate.
Elizaveta: The fall on the 3A didn't really cost her. She still earned more on that fall than everyone else did on a clean 2A. It's the risk versus reward for that jump; as long as she rotates it, fall or not, it's worth it. I thought it was great how she rebounded and finished cleanly. I've never been in complete agreement with her PCS but she's the world champion so, what can you do? I fully expect her to storm back in the FS with a strong program.
Elena: I agree with her score. At first I expected she'd get 69+ but looking at the protocols, she lost 0.60 on the step sequence (level 3 instead of 4) which would have had her in the 69 range. I thought she looked very good, much better than at worlds when she was sick. In Shanghai that spark was a little dim; here, she was back to herself. I expect her to have a strong performance in the FS...
Ashley: Great to see her hit that clean 3Lz-3T but SO frustrating to see her step out/UR that 3F. I really would have loved to see what this program could score with all of the content. I hope she can give her Moulin Rouge program a proper send off...
Kanako: I thought she should have been higher in PCS. Great 3T-3T and I just love that program overall. It didn't sing the way it did in Shanghai but I thought she was lovely...
Satoko: Looks like a little of the pressure got to her. It's a good learning experience for her. That pressure of being a world medalist can overwhelm you (just ask Alena Leonova) but I think Satoko will bounce back stronger in the FS. I also want to see her give her Miss Saigon FS a proper send off.
Strong competition so far. I really want to believe Gracie is going to rise to the challenge but I still feel like we're going to see Liza and Elena in those top 2 spots when all is said and done. The two of them are right on Gracie's heels and are known for skating cleanly in the FS whereas Gracie isn't known for holding up under pressure. We'll have to see what happens...
Gracie: It was really nice to see her deliver. I think that's only the second clean SP she's had this season; I was starting to think the program was cursed. I'm still really worried she jumps within 0.2 millimeters of the boards but she made it work today. It just goes to show that she doesn't need a 3A or 4S to compete at the top. Just imagine those kind of jumps with some interesting/refreshing choreography... Today was great but we all know the real test for Gracie is the FS. She's going to be skating last and will undoubtedly have to be clean. Less than 2.50 points separates 1st from 3rd which means she'll have to deliver under pressure. This is a less intense competition that is significantly less important in the grand scheme of things so hopefully she'll just cut loose and skate.
Elizaveta: The fall on the 3A didn't really cost her. She still earned more on that fall than everyone else did on a clean 2A. It's the risk versus reward for that jump; as long as she rotates it, fall or not, it's worth it. I thought it was great how she rebounded and finished cleanly. I've never been in complete agreement with her PCS but she's the world champion so, what can you do? I fully expect her to storm back in the FS with a strong program.
Elena: I agree with her score. At first I expected she'd get 69+ but looking at the protocols, she lost 0.60 on the step sequence (level 3 instead of 4) which would have had her in the 69 range. I thought she looked very good, much better than at worlds when she was sick. In Shanghai that spark was a little dim; here, she was back to herself. I expect her to have a strong performance in the FS...
Ashley: Great to see her hit that clean 3Lz-3T but SO frustrating to see her step out/UR that 3F. I really would have loved to see what this program could score with all of the content. I hope she can give her Moulin Rouge program a proper send off...
Kanako: I thought she should have been higher in PCS. Great 3T-3T and I just love that program overall. It didn't sing the way it did in Shanghai but I thought she was lovely...
Satoko: Looks like a little of the pressure got to her. It's a good learning experience for her. That pressure of being a world medalist can overwhelm you (just ask Alena Leonova) but I think Satoko will bounce back stronger in the FS. I also want to see her give her Miss Saigon FS a proper send off.
Strong competition so far. I really want to believe Gracie is going to rise to the challenge but I still feel like we're going to see Liza and Elena in those top 2 spots when all is said and done. The two of them are right on Gracie's heels and are known for skating cleanly in the FS whereas Gracie isn't known for holding up under pressure. We'll have to see what happens...
Carolina got 77.24 without a 3A. And she didn't even max out her Layback spin. Only level 3. Her TES was 39.78, PCS was 37.46.
Gracie will need to beat Carolina's PCS by more than a point, which is impossible. As it stands, no one dead or alive can beat that PCS.
Did Gracie really say this? The Russian article didn't cite any sources. Maybe it was just a joke/journalists looking for hits. I'm sure Gracie knows she can't (and frankly, shouldn't) score 77 without 3A.
Elena has mainly been getting Level 3 all year, including at Europeans where she scored above 70. It seems like the difference was in GOE--her PCS are actually higher here. I guess the best explanation is that at Europeans her jumps--though the same/worse than WTT--still looked okay compared to early group European skaters. But here, her jumps don't really look that great? :think: (not just next to Liza and Gracie, but also compared to Zijun, Gabby, even Kanako and Ashley when they don't headcase on their 3Fs)
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
Hopefully Ashley will retire this sp. I find it frustrating! She doesn't take advantage of the music.
I find it to be an awkward program that does not suit her skating style. Not crazy about her costume either. I like her lp though, I think she will be much stronger in the long.
Gracie was clean and spot on, good for her. Gracie and Ashley are really neck and neck, it is exciting to watch them compete against each other.
I find it to be an awkward program that does not suit her skating style. Not crazy about her costume either. I like her lp though, I think she will be much stronger in the long.
Gracie was clean and spot on, good for her. Gracie and Ashley are really neck and neck, it is exciting to watch them compete against each other.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Well I love Liza and Gracie, always have since the beginning, even during their slumps, but if I am to be honest...assuming they did both EXACTLY the same program, same choreography, same music today using same elements at their optimal level, I may have to give it to Gracie slightly.
I think I figured out why Gracie skate so close to the board. I wonder if it might be a deliberate choice from Frank Carroll to to emphasis her greater speed and coverage, and stronger athleticism in all aspects of her elements relative to Liza. Poor ice coverage used to be a criticism used against Liza and is something she have improved on but it is an area that can do with some work especially compare to the likes of Pogo, or Gracie. The camera close up really doesn't emphasis this, but I remember seeing Liza twice live before, and it is one thing I remember being surprised by. I didn't realize how small she is because of the way she had always carry herself as if she is 6ft tall come across better on zoomed in camera, and you don't get that impact at live scale, especially her delicate facial features which add so much more impact on camera.
Skating big, jump big and fast really makes a massive difference and this is a maturer Gracie with much improved presentation than liza over last few years, so I really don't see why her PCS especially in choreography and performance should lose out on Liza's SP, nor her skating skills for that matter. I just can't admire Liza's program construct. It follows my most detested COP cookie formula of: Jump one end, Jump another, meandering section of nothingness, slow *ss spins to kill time, more time wasting poseography /Kiss to the judge for extra points / having a bit of breather looking cute, finally half way point then go for the 3/3s bonuses; finally big long spins, heighten the drama to finish it up and go for the big wow factor. The elements in between feel segmented, staged, rather than integrated or relevant to the music at all. Little ice coverage in between and masking conservative skating for consistency with all that jazz. It is designed shamelessly do the minimal for maximized points, but how many can truly say they will rewatch any of her programs after this year?
I did take another look at that 3A after so many 'explanations' (much appreciated by the way), but sorry to say I still can't agree with the high reward. A technical program should mean one should able to do everything they set out to do, if you can not, you lose big. It is suppose to be:
BIG risk = BIG reward
But this is like
NO risk = Big reward.
The number doesn't make sense no matter what COP says. She messed out 1 of her 3 jumping elements. Falls on 3A made no difference, it is as if she got an automatic spare 4th jumping element and that is worth a 2nd 3lutz. So she get 2 x 3 lutz with a 3A + fall (as long as she rotates.) Bear in mind a 3A< is still worth approx the same as a fully rotated 3lutz in BV. (5.95 vs 6.0), so again, it shows having a 3A, there's literally no risk as long as you can get half one out and land on your butt. It is like legalised zayaking rule.
A jump should be rewarded from the moment of creative entry (if any), take off, air positions, trajectory, landing positions, flow out onto the next transitions. How can you reward something that missed half of of it and still rewarded the 2nd highest jumping element score. This is figure skating, not figure rotating or figure jumping. A bunch of girls going for broke and don't care about landing at all, and we are suppose to go 'Hurray! Did she rotate? did she rotate? She rotated!! OMG! she rotated!!!' butt on the floor, still awesome!! -3 is worth nothing, fall is nothing. It is either a failed 3A is over valued or perfectly rotated 3lutz is under valued, or some how GOE risk/reward is messed up.
I think I figured out why Gracie skate so close to the board. I wonder if it might be a deliberate choice from Frank Carroll to to emphasis her greater speed and coverage, and stronger athleticism in all aspects of her elements relative to Liza. Poor ice coverage used to be a criticism used against Liza and is something she have improved on but it is an area that can do with some work especially compare to the likes of Pogo, or Gracie. The camera close up really doesn't emphasis this, but I remember seeing Liza twice live before, and it is one thing I remember being surprised by. I didn't realize how small she is because of the way she had always carry herself as if she is 6ft tall come across better on zoomed in camera, and you don't get that impact at live scale, especially her delicate facial features which add so much more impact on camera.
Skating big, jump big and fast really makes a massive difference and this is a maturer Gracie with much improved presentation than liza over last few years, so I really don't see why her PCS especially in choreography and performance should lose out on Liza's SP, nor her skating skills for that matter. I just can't admire Liza's program construct. It follows my most detested COP cookie formula of: Jump one end, Jump another, meandering section of nothingness, slow *ss spins to kill time, more time wasting poseography /Kiss to the judge for extra points / having a bit of breather looking cute, finally half way point then go for the 3/3s bonuses; finally big long spins, heighten the drama to finish it up and go for the big wow factor. The elements in between feel segmented, staged, rather than integrated or relevant to the music at all. Little ice coverage in between and masking conservative skating for consistency with all that jazz. It is designed shamelessly do the minimal for maximized points, but how many can truly say they will rewatch any of her programs after this year?
I did take another look at that 3A after so many 'explanations' (much appreciated by the way), but sorry to say I still can't agree with the high reward. A technical program should mean one should able to do everything they set out to do, if you can not, you lose big. It is suppose to be:
BIG risk = BIG reward
But this is like
NO risk = Big reward.
The number doesn't make sense no matter what COP says. She messed out 1 of her 3 jumping elements. Falls on 3A made no difference, it is as if she got an automatic spare 4th jumping element and that is worth a 2nd 3lutz. So she get 2 x 3 lutz with a 3A + fall (as long as she rotates.) Bear in mind a 3A< is still worth approx the same as a fully rotated 3lutz in BV. (5.95 vs 6.0), so again, it shows having a 3A, there's literally no risk as long as you can get half one out and land on your butt. It is like legalised zayaking rule.
A jump should be rewarded from the moment of creative entry (if any), take off, air positions, trajectory, landing positions, flow out onto the next transitions. How can you reward something that missed half of of it and still rewarded the 2nd highest jumping element score. This is figure skating, not figure rotating or figure jumping. A bunch of girls going for broke and don't care about landing at all, and we are suppose to go 'Hurray! Did she rotate? did she rotate? She rotated!! OMG! she rotated!!!' butt on the floor, still awesome!! -3 is worth nothing, fall is nothing. It is either a failed 3A is over valued or perfectly rotated 3lutz is under valued, or some how GOE risk/reward is messed up.
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The only thing is - 3A is a risk and shall be rewarded.
OMG she rotated, and put an omg on this - if it was that easy, everybody would be jumping it as all the top ladies jump other triples. Also it is a bit more demanding - since the jump is harder, doing exactly the same other elements is harder too, since she`s more tired than a skater that jumped a 2A.
She was rewarded for something that only 5-6 women ever did.
This is a sports competition, not an ice show, and i think its fair if the olympic motto applies: "Faster, Higher, Stronger.", not "Do a pretty dance"
=)
OMG she rotated, and put an omg on this - if it was that easy, everybody would be jumping it as all the top ladies jump other triples. Also it is a bit more demanding - since the jump is harder, doing exactly the same other elements is harder too, since she`s more tired than a skater that jumped a 2A.
She was rewarded for something that only 5-6 women ever did.
This is a sports competition, not an ice show, and i think its fair if the olympic motto applies: "Faster, Higher, Stronger.", not "Do a pretty dance"
=)
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