2016 NHK Trophy Ladies FS

[Sam-Skwantch]

#FearTheMedvedeva

 

[whatif]

Disagree.

These are the top 5 programs i've enjoyed more of the past two years from the russians:
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWhmvfcJzfg

Nobody ever has a right to complain about memorability of Russian choreography when you have Manfred, one of the best skating routines ever. One for the history books. It is shame it never got to shine to World Gold glory.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I

It is great you are committed to make this analysis and now that the event is over, I would be more than willing to help explaining a few issues. However, please keep in mind a few things:
1. The quality of the replay images is by far not the same on our review screen as the image shown on tv or on the video display in the arena. The image resolution is lower, therefore in reviewing jumps our screen doesn't show a continuous motion as on the tv in slow-motion, rather it shows 'frames'. This is something I have addressed in the past and will continue to address. Plus of course the replay screen is almost as large as the size of a tablet or small laptop.
2. The camera angle is influencing the calls; as tech panel we get the image from right beside judge #9. Jumps performed at the short axis (Lutzes, Flips etc.) which are shown from behind that short axis on tv in the replays, can look quite different, so what from one viewpoint can look underrotated by a small margin can look within the 1/4 mark from another viewpoint, and vice versa.
3. Decisions are taken in majority of the 2 TS and the TC; which means something that is decided by one panel 2-1 can be decided by another panel 1-2 or even 0-3 or 3-0. The key issue here it to be consistent in the calling process throughout the event.
4. Decisions have to be taken quickly, as there is live tv involved. Especially when there are 7-8 elements to review in a program (which happens regularly), a typical jump review will show the landing in slow-motion just once by the data operator and maybe twice to cast a decision by the TC if the two TS disagree.
5. Even if we would have exactly the same viewpoint, and exactly the same quality of image, we might still disagree in some cases. This is a judged sport.

So far all of the calls are spot on. I've only edited Karen and Wakaba and I'm just showing the calls made. I do feel though that the TP's are clamping down so it's kind of fascinating to me to see the calls they are making. I agree too that there is nothing definitive from my videos but I think they help to find the little things often missed. For example....during the live event Karen's 3f looks good from the TV angle at regular speed but from the head on slow motion replay her edge is a very egregious outside edge. Far more than any I've seen from say Zhenia for example. I use the highest number of frames per second possible to increase my accuracy and if it's close in determining when the blade hits the ice on UR's I always give the benefit of where I pause the video to the skater. Honestly I look for flying snow because it's a good indicator that the skaters weight is in contact with the ice.

I'm not trying to second guess or Monday morning quarterback but I do believe my videos offer some value into understanding the nature of jumping errors. At least I hope so.


This project may take me a few days to complete :shocked:

 

[yuki]

She is so tiny, you can barely notice her skating live.

Junior level of ice coverage (and it's not bashing, sorry, she is charming, love her smile but that's a fact)

I've seen this claim before and it doesn't match at all with my experience of seeing her skate live (at GPF 2015). Her ice coverage is fine and she has very good (and effortless) speed, especially considering how tiny she is. The same is true for Shoma, btw.
FWIW, the Barcelona audience loved her, especially the SP (which they were clapping along to). Also, the size of her jumps stands out less live because she rotates extremely fast.

 

[Biellmann]

#FearTheMedvedeva

Fear?

Seriously, i don't get this obsession with Medvedeva, she is nothing special :confused2:

 

[largeman]

It is great you are committed to make this analysis and now that the event is over, I would be more than willing to help explaining a few issues.

Hello Mr. Tech Controller Fantastic to have you spending time here and interacting with us...

I think your calls in this competition were great. My only quibble is that you might have been too generous about Wakaba Higuchi's flip edge to only give it a ! in both programs. I'm a huge fan of Wakaba and i definitely want great scores for her. But I think other tech callers would probably have given her an e.

 

[Hevari]

Fear?

Seriously, i don't get this obsession with Medvedeva, she is nothing special :confused2:

Agree - heavily overrated and overscored

 

[randomfan]

Fear?

Seriously, i don't get this obsession with Medvedeva, she is nothing special :confused2:

#FearTheMedvedeva was a thing some people made around the time of Worlds this year. Because of how Evgenia was unbeatable due to her insanely high scores and consistency, people made good trailers on it before the event started. That started the trend.

 

[atsumiri]

Agree - heavily overrated and overscored

again and again............
Evgeina hate is so boring.
It's not even amusing anymore. :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

 

[Hevari]

again and again............
Evgeina hate is so boring.
It's not even amusing anymore. :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

Why hate? Or I needed to suggest "...but still a good skater" for not being called a hater?

Do you understant that "good skater" and "overrated/overscored" are not mutually exclusive things?

 

[koatcue]

And what's wrong with her ice coverage and presence? For me both are OK. She is tiny, she has no long feet and arms but still is good.

Отправлено с моего Lenovo A2010-a через Tapatalk

Nothing is wrong with her look, but what IS wrong is that holliwar people try to make out of this or that, depending on their preferance. YOu say, for starters, how Ru girls, Pogo aside, are nothing special and japanese are better skaters/competitors/whatever. I'm speaking not according to your posts here, but from Russian sport portals where I could sometimes read your posts. IT's okay to like some skater, but trying to lessen some other skater's value is just no-no.

 

[koatcue]

Why hate? Or I needed to suggest "...but still a good skater" for not being called a hater?

Do you understant that "good skater" and "overrated/overscored" are not mutually exclusive things?

Once again. Quite big words from you. Overrated means that other skaters are underrated, and that is just not true.

 

[Hevari]

Once again. Quite big words from you. Overrated means that other skaters are underrated, and that is just not true.

You are wrong. Someone is overrated does not mean that someone other is underrated. That "someone other" can recieve normal scores according to his/her skating. Overrated/overscored, normal and underrated/underscored/lowballed are three different relations between skating and scores.

 

[ancientpeas]

Once again. Quite big words from you. Overrated means that other skaters are underrated, and that is just not true.

With all due respect that's not exactly logically correct. One person can be overrated and everyone else can be rated correctly and the overrated person still benefits from being overrated while the others do not. And visa versa.

I hope you see my point there. I do agree that most people who think one skater is overrated also, often, think another skater is underrated but it's not necessarily so.

All ducks are birds, not all birds are ducks.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Fear?

Click --> HERE<-- Click

 

[Sweet Dream]

Finally a seemingly flawless skate can no longer cover up the flaws of her jumps! This is the right way where the FS judging is moving. You can be an artist on ice and get a good PCS for your programs, but TES is just another story. Yay! :agree:

 

[koatcue]

With all due respect that's not exactly logically correct. One person can be overrated and everyone else can be rated correctly and the overrated person still benefits from being overrated while the others do not. And visa versa.

I hope you see my point there. I do agree that most people who think one skater is overrated also, often, think another skater is underrated but it's not necessarily so.

All ducks are birds, not all birds are ducks.

But the point is that everyone is judged in comparison So saying that Zhenia isn't the best in the field and deserves the scores higher than her competition is like supposing that other skaters in comparison deserve their HIGH scores in tech and components(Wagner, Gold, Satoko etc)

 

[jenaj]

A scoring system that made sense would rank these skaters as follows:

Satoko Miyahara
Anna Pogorilaya
Mirai Nagasu
Wakaba Higuchi
Maria Sotskova
Karen Chen

 

[largeman]

I checked both her Flips again (on YT, as the official DVDs from the competition which show the camera angle as we saw it live, are in my suitcase which is stuck in Tokyo). The FS one seems worse than the SP one but to me to call a clear wrong edge and take away 30% of the base value seems quite harsh.

Thanks for your reply.

I think there were other controversial calls such as Satoko's 3Lz in the short, which many believe was <<, and Anna's backend 3T in the short, which looked less than a quarter short. I appreciate the limitations for the tech panel that you described in your earlier post. Is it your general principle to lean towards giving skaters the "benefit of a doubt" when it could go either way? I am in favor of your approach to Wakaba's flip, but I hope it is applied consistently throughout and more importantly, adopted by all tech callers. Of course, you are all just humans not machines, and it is not an easy job at all

 

[Biellmann]

Click --> HERE<-- Click

Sorry, but there is nothing to "fear". She is not better than any junior girl, actually, there are even better juniors right now