2016 NHK Trophy Ladies FS

[hippomoomin]

Does Satoko really have a great ice coverage??? Or speed??

At this competition, the camera actually showed her poor ice coverage, especially the first half of her program.

Once thing bothers me besides her jumps, is when she does her footwork, her feet are barely off the ice— the vertical distance between the foot that is off ice to the surface of the ice, is very little. There are many short tiny senior lady skaters out there, but she is the only person who appears that way. That's one of the reasons some folks said her boots are too big/heavy, because the ice is a magnet that drags her boots down.

If she were a taller skater, this problem will be more obvious. She has great knee bend when she lands her jumps, but her knee is not so "soft" when she strokes on the ice. Too bad Wakaba, and Marin are not as "consistent" as Satoko is. She is only 18, and I wonder how many more years she will keep her #1 Japanese lady title.

 

[rain]

V/T - I remember almost every move of their Olympic SP. It's the best Pairs program EVER!
and S/K's last season LP! so powerful, fascinating and just WOOW.
but i can't say the same about Russians dance teams.

Different strokes, of course. Totally legit. I was commenting more generally, in any case. I totally acknowledge that, while I didn't enjoy it, S/K were certainly trying something different last season. But that's an exception. On the whole, I find the choreography from the Russians to be painfully generic of late. Which is a shame, because even as they win world medals, it's holding excellent skaters back from achieving the pinnacle of what they are capable.

 

[silverfoxes]

LOL, these threads are always the same. All "the Russians" treated as though they are a monolith with the same style, even though they all look completely different to my eyes and many of them used non-Russian choreographers like Lambiel, Shae-Lynn Bourne, & Emanuel Sandhu. And so many raves about the most boring, generic princess skaters unless they are Russian like Maria, then she's putting people to sleep. She's not my favorite, but she is certainly no more boring to me than certain GS darlings. I'll never understand the double standards here...

 

[frida80]

LOL, these threads are always the same. All "the Russians" treated as though they are a monolith with the same style, even though they all look completely different to my eyes and many of them used non-Russian choreographers like Lambiel, Shae-Lynn Bourne, & Emanuel Sandhu. And so many raves about the most boring, generic princess skaters unless they are Russian like Maria, then she's putting people to sleep. She's not my favorite, but she is certainly no more boring to me than certain GS darlings. I'll never understand the double standards here...

When you win, people don't like that. Simple as that. You'll find a lot of haters for nearly every top athlete. It was the same way during the Yuna/Mao years.

 

[Blades of Passion]

This was a really good competition. Mirai and Karen Chen were held down. Kudos to Karen for her wonderful positions and spiral and great spring in the jumps.

Tursynbaeva could have scored higher too. That darn Flip jump keeps plaguing her, but it was a good performance and she skates so fast.

 

[rain]

LOL, these threads are always the same. All "the Russians" treated as though they are a monolith with the same style, even though they all look completely different to my eyes and many of them used non-Russian choreographers like Lambiel, Shae-Lynn Bourne, & Emanuel Sandhu. And so many raves about the most boring, generic princess skaters unless they are Russian like Maria, then she's putting people to sleep. She's not my favorite, but she is certainly no more boring to me than certain GS darlings. I'll never understand the double standards here...

Well, there's nothing like dismissing someone's legitimate, very non-bashing discussion point by throwing up straw men.

I think you'll find that the princess skaters aren't my cup of tea on the whole and I have not gushed about them. Nor do I hate the Russian skaters frida80. In fact, my issue is that they are largely not served well by their bland and unmemorable choreography. No, I don't think they're all the same. And no, not every single performance belongs under the umbrella. However, in my opinion there's a big enough sample of programs built up to be able to talk legitimately about them as a whole. No matter who choreographed them. I guess I can't stop you from dismissing me in whatever way you like, but it's a shame really, to try to shut down discussion rather than advance it, on a discussion board.

 

[topaz emerald]

you know reading this just proves, the competition would be a lot fairer if the judges have no federation invested interest in the scoring. Australia and china judges are by far the fairest of them all. Japan is desperate for satoko. The reason satoko got her best pcs ever also has to do with the fact mao is injured therefore no longer perceived as the japan #1, same as jason brown, the moment he is no longer in contention, nathan chen's pcs shot up. I'd even go as far as to say same with evegenia's pcs boost was a product of liza's and julia's inconsistent issues last year.

you hit the nail on the head!!!

 

[Hevari]

No, she is not a huge presence on the ice so even PCS shouldn't be so high (she is one of those skaters that live looks even smaller), also as the B.ESP guy said, her short program was very old school in the style. (to me the short looks a little junioristic)

I think she is a lovely skater, i like her layback but i don't think she is robbed, or her artistry is that much better than the top russians.

What is 'huge presence"?

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[Sam-Skwantch]

Anyone know where I can find an HD video of Wakaba Higuchi's FS? I'm doing a video analysis of all of the jumping calls made by the TP for the top five ladies here. I can't find her HD video....just lower quality.

 

[Tolstoj]

What is 'huge presence"?

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She is so tiny, you can barely notice her skating live.

Junior level of ice coverage (and it's not bashing, sorry, she is charming, love her smile but that's a fact)

 

[Hevari]

She is so tiny, you can barely notice her skating live.

Junior level of ice coverage (and it's not bashing, sorry, she is charming, love her smile but that's a fact)

So? What's wrong? She must retire or recieve small PCS because of being tiny? She is not guilty for that - it's just what nature gave her and the marks should not depend on height, weight or other such things.


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[Tolstoj]

So? What's wrong? She must retire or recieve small PCS because of being tiny? She is not guilty for that - it's just what nature gave her and the marks should not depend on height, weight or other such things.


Отправлено с моего Lenovo A2010-a через Tapatalk

The ice coverage, the presence on the ice have always affected the PCS, it's not a surprise that a taller skater like Carolina Kostner give more a statuesque look.

Of course it's not completely her fault (even though you can work on that), in fact my point is that her PCS are just fair, she is not "miles away than the top russians".

 

[Hevari]

The ice coverage, the presence on the ice have always affected the PCS, it's not a surprise that a taller skater like Carolina Kostner give more a statuesque look.

Of course it's not completely her fault (even though you can work on that), in fact my point is that her PCS are just fair, she is not "miles away than the top russians".

And what's wrong with her ice coverage and presence? For me both are OK. She is tiny, she has no long feet and arms but still is good.

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[glorybox6]

I just wish that, across the board, the Russians in every discipline (pairs/dance/mens/ladies) would get better choreography. Their programs are, to me, totally forgettable or cheesy. On the whole, it all tends to look a little dated.

THIS. This is off topic but this has been bothering me like crazy this season, especially in dance and pairs, the two disciplines Russia traditionally dominated. Maybe I'm biased as a westerner, but very few of the programs the Russians are putting forward this year (or, honestly, the year before for the most part) are particularly memorable. What is different today vs. 15-20 years ago when we were seeing so many gorgeous, iconic programs from the likes of B/S, K/D, K/O, G/P, N/K, Yagudin, Urmanov, etc.? Unique/sometimes strange folks like Markova, Sokolova, Abt and Klimkin. Is less funding available for choreography? Is it all IJS' fault (is it true the system is more biased toward 4CC skaters' strengths)? Something else entirely?

All that said, Pogo has two of my favorite programs of this season. And I love Radionova's short. But that's about it, for me at least.

 

[sabinfire]

Anyone know where I can find an HD video of Wakaba Higuchi's FS? I'm doing a video analysis of all of the jumping calls made by the TP for the top five ladies here. I can't find her HD video....just lower quality.

Here's my CBC video in 1080p at 60fps (there are some ugly CBC graphics on-screen at times though :scowl: ):
https://youtu.be/a04yUCCTSZc

Also, I found this on YouTube, it's only 720p and the video is choppy w/ low fps (but still sorta HD):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uv74fIYZa8

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

THIS. This is off topic but this has been bothering me like crazy this season, especially in dance and pairs, the two disciplines Russia traditionally dominated. Maybe I'm biased as a westerner, but very few of the programs the Russians are putting forward this year (or, honestly, the year before for the most part) are particularly memorable. What is different today vs. 15-20 years ago when we were seeing so many gorgeous, iconic programs from the likes of B/S, K/D, K/O, G/P, N/K, Yagudin, Urmanov, etc.? Unique/sometimes strange folks like Markova, Sokolova, Abt and Klimkin. Is less funding available for choreography? Is it all IJS' fault (is it true the system is more biased toward 4CC skaters' strengths)? Something else entirely?

All that said, Pogo has two of my favorite programs of this season. And I love Radionova's short. But that's about it, for me at least.

Out of curiosity I wonder......have you seen either of Anastasia Gubanova's programs?

 

[Tolstoj]

THIS. This is off topic but this has been bothering me like crazy this season, especially in dance and pairs, the two disciplines Russia traditionally dominated. Maybe I'm biased as a westerner, but very few of the programs the Russians are putting forward this year (or, honestly, the year before for the most part) are particularly memorable. What is different today vs. 15-20 years ago when we were seeing so many gorgeous, iconic programs from the likes of B/S, K/D, K/O, G/P, N/K, Yagudin, Urmanov, etc.? Unique/sometimes strange folks like Markova, Sokolova, Abt and Klimkin. Is less funding available for choreography? Is it all IJS' fault (is it true the system is more biased toward 4CC skaters' strengths)? Something else entirely?

All that said, Pogo has two of my favorite programs of this season. And I love Radionova's short. But that's about it, for me at least.

Disagree.

These are the top 5 programs i've enjoyed more of the past two years from the russians:

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUmj6OpiTDw

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWhmvfcJzfg

3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIvc05OEoiE

4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C17aEZT9OXA

5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmvrKEqpWT0

( 6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU-KfPZOUsk)

Also Julia's SP this and last season (after Urmanov's changes) beautiful, I/K were amazing at Sochi, Lena's SP, Pogo's programs of the past two seasons,...so many memorable programs.

 

[glorybox6]

Disagree.

These are the top 5 programs i've enjoyed more of the past two years from the russians..

Definitely some good examples. I do like Lip's programs this year, too. And I loved B/S' FD and S/K's LP last year too.

I feel like overall, though, the Russian team's programs this year aren't up to that level -- even when compared to the majority of their programs in the Sochi season.

 

[OS]

This was a really good competition. Mirai and Karen Chen were held down. Kudos to Karen for her wonderful positions and spiral and great spring in the jumps.

Tursynbaeva could have scored higher too. That darn Flip jump keeps plaguing her, but it was a good performance and she skates so fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMVWjHDIYqY

The judges were so stingey with the GOEs (+2.51 overall) and PCS. Nice to see the Eurosport commentators disagrees with the marking.

It is a shame in this day and age, this is a <120 mark program/performance. Her PCS is <60.

What impressed me more was she had choreographed both her program herself, musicality well expressed. Karen is just past 17, so she created these when she was just 16. Delays in her nice big jumps, gorgeous spirals, perfectly placed with the music. I am very much looking forward to her maturity. Potential is huge. No more injuries, please.

Pity about Chartrand today. I like her programs a lot but they are pretty ambitious program to skate to.

 

[qwerty1195]

I love how Evgenia is not even competing here and she still keeps getting bashed and criticized.