2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

[Lily flowers]

well, it probably sucks to be the only Eteri's girl who hasn't qualified for finals...

Don’t say that :sad21:

 

[charlotte14]

It is Polina's fault to mess the SP at SA. That was an easy GP and she could not medal.

BTW, I have to say she has been benefitting from easy calls. She has delayed rotation and she rotates slow, thus her jumps can be UR and borderline. At SA I would say her 3Lo in the SP was UR and they spared her. In the LP her combos were dubious.

I hope Eteri will find a way to fix that.

 

[madison]

Let's just say it honestly - russian ladies suck. Only 5/6 ladies in JGPF and laughable 3/6 in GPF - what a joke! They must've filled that finals completely. I don't think any of them should continue doing figure skating after such disastrous results, because it seems like they don't understand anything in figure skating, right?

I didn't say they suck. I am fan of them but this doesn't mean that I don't see the weaknesses and it's better to face and address them as soon as possible.
Maybe it's better to focus on high quality than on quantity cause it will be enough for Rika Khihara to have a stellar and consistent season (in the future) and she will win everything even though she'll face 5 Russian girls at GPF.
Even though now the Russian ladies may benefit from a reputation boost in their scores, this could easily change over the next years. Resting on victory laurels won't have benefits for anybody.

 

[russianfan]

I didn't say they suck. I am fan of them but this doesn't mean that I don't see the weaknesses and it's better to face and address them as soon as possible.
Maybe it's better to focus on high quality than on quantity cause it will be enough for Rika Khihara to have a stellar and consistent season (in the future) and she will win everything even though she'll face 5 Russian girls at GPF.
Even though now the Russian ladies may benefit from a reputation boost in their scores, this could easily change over the next years. Resting on victory laurels won't have benefits for anybody.

yeah, i'm overdramatizing a bit, but still you're saying that Eteri's girls should do something if they want to dominate, but in fact they're already dominating. From her 7 girls competing in both junior/senior GP, only one wasn't able to get into the final.
On the other hand, how japanese are doing? They're good, i agree. But for example Rika barely made it to the final, mostly due to pretty lenient judging in Egna. What about Wakaba? She was amazing at this GP, no doubt about that, she really deserved that. But even then she also barely made it to the final, mostly because of failure of both Ashley and Polina. So i'm being sceptical on this one atm.
Regarding juniors: of course they have weaknesses! And i hope they will continue improve further. Remember, for most of them it's just their first international season. Some of them even being the youngest of the field! At the same time, Rika already has an experience, it's not her first season internationally.

P.S. Max Ambesi on it

 

[madison]

yeah, i'm overdramatizing a bit, but still you're saying that Eteri's girls should do something if they want to dominate, but in fact they're already dominating. From her 7 girls competing in both junior/senior GP, only one wasn't able to get into the final.
On the other hand, how japanese are doing? They're doing good, i agree. But for example Rika barely made it to the final, mostly due to pretty lenient judging in Egna. What about Wakaba? She was amazing at this GP, no doubt about that, she really deserved that. But even then she also barely made it to the final, mostly because of failure of both Ashley and Polina. So i'm being sceptical on this one atm.

I'm talking about the future> if they want to dominate in the future they should work on SS, expressiveness etc.
I think that Japanese ladies progressed over the past years, whereas the Russian ladies not so much. Even this year, except Med and Zagi there's no much. And 72-73 TES is becoming the norm for the ladies nowdays so there is a need to do something more.
But next season there will be some changes in the rules and much will depend on this.

 

[russianfan]

also, if we're talking about expressiveness - i don't think that Kihira is even close to Kostornaya or Tarakanova in that regard, as well as Higuchi not even close to Medvedeva for example.

 

[tars]

There is a lot of truth in what madison wrote, the problem is - sometimes truth hurts.

Japan have currently 4 senior ladies capable of scoring over 210 and another two - around 200. It's a fact.
Very impressive and significant fact.

 

[moriel]

There is a lot of truth in what madison wrote, the problem is - sometimes truth hurts.

Japan have currently 4 senior ladies capable of scoring over 210 and another two - around 200. It's a fact.
Very impressive and significant fact.

Ok, lets see:
Wakaba, Kaori and Satoko can score over 210
Mai only scores 210+ at WTT, but i wouldnt count that. But she can score over 200.
Marin, Rika, Yuna never scored over 200 as senior.

I see you got some wrong numbers there =)

Japan has 3 senior ladies capable of scoring over 210, and 1 capable of scoring over 200.


As for russia, we got:
220 Medvedeva
210 Pogorilaya, Zagitova, Tuktamysheva, Tsurskaya
200 Radionova, Sotskova


PS: please stop promoting Japanese ladies here, you can sure go to the japanese ladies thread, for example. Its pretty annoying, like when you tried to turn this thread into Marin's fanfest

 

[tars]

I'm not promoting anybody, just trying to present some facts standing behind another poster's theory.
Theory, I find quite reasonable, expressed in polite, civilized way and worth considering.

Which is basically how forum of opinions works.

 

[Mawwerg]

Russian and Japanese girls dominating is natural. All of them have great skills. And we're waiting for another waves of talents from juniors. The only problem I see here is we can not see all of them at Worlds. I can not imagine how the absence of about eight 200+ capable girls at Worlds could increase the popularity of sport.

 

[puremagic]

People should learn how to love and also be objective at the same time. Guys, it's obvious that madison and tars love Russian ladies. We all do. : But I was talking about the same a few pages before.

Somehow Russia always has only two strong skaters. Lip and Sotnikova, Radio and Tukt, Medvedeva and Pogorilaya, now Medvedeva and Zagitova. Others skaters are not strong enough. Sotskova with her 125/140/128 scores, Tsurskaya with her crap free program (but very nice music) and empty skating without consistency, Radio with weak skating always about ~130 points if she is clean. And Pogorilaya, who can't manage with injuries and mind.

As I said, only juniors will make interesting Russian Nationals 2018.

(just make Alena eligible and give her the third spot for the Olympics!)

 

[russianfan]

(just make Alena eligible and give her the third spot for the Olympics!)

that's the solution

 

[puremagic]

But let me congratulate you, my dear and beloved friends. Finally we got one free week from that figure skating hell. You can relax now. Do your chores or whatever. But be ready. The next week (4-10 dec) might hurt your feelings, so bad and so hard. So, please during this week try to rise your calmness level. And don't forget: I'm with you!

 

[moriel]

But let me congratulate you, my dear and beloved friends. Finally we got one free week from that figure skating hell. You can relax now. Do your chores or whatever. But be ready. The next week (4-10 dec) might hurt your feelings, so bad and so hard. So, please during this week try to rise your calmness level. And don't forget: I'm with you!

Nah, after Skate America, nothing can hurt our feelings. We seen all the worst stuff to happen.
Well, i suppose the only thing that would hurt my feelings at GPF is that if Medeveda WD during or after SP.

 

[hanca]

There is a lot of truth in what madison wrote, the problem is - sometimes truth hurts.

Japan have currently 4 senior ladies capable of scoring over 210 and another two - around 200. It's a fact.
Very impressive and significant fact.

You are using words such as 'true' and 'facts', but the facts are taken out of context in such a way that they are presenting distorted picture!
Let's look at the facts in proper context:

Russian ladies this season at GP:
Evgenia Medvedeva 1st & 1st GP 231.21; 224.39
Alina Zagitova 1st & 1st GP 213.88; 213.80
Maria Sotskova 2nd& 2nd GP 192.52; 208.78
Polina Tsurskaya 3rd & 4th GP 210.19; 195.56
Elena Radionova 4th & 3rd GP 195.52; 206.82

Serafima Sakhanovich 5th GP 189.75
Alena Leonova 6th &7th GP 190.95; 185.93
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 7th & 9th GP 196.68; 167.65
Valeria Michailova 7th GP 185.09
Anna Pogorilaya 9th & WDR GP 156.89

Japanese ladies this season at GP:
Wakaba Higuchi 3rd and 2nd GP 207.17; 212.52
Satoko Miahara 5th and 1st GP 191.80; 214.03
Kaori Sakamoto 5th and 2nd GP 194.00; 210.59
Mai Mihara 4th and 4th GP 206.07; 202.12

Marin Honda 5th and 5th GP 178.24; 198.32
Rika Hongo 6th and 7th GP 176.34; 187.83
Yuna Shiraiwa 8th and 6th GP 171.94; 193.18


Yes, Japan has four ladies who scored over 200 points this season. Russia has five ladies who scored at this GP over 200 points, plus Pogorilaya who repeatedly scored over 200 points last season but now is injured. However, Russian ladies seem to be much more consistent, e.g. the top three competitors at GP from Russia (Medvedeva, Zagitova and Sotskova) seem to score high in both competitions, whereas top three Japanese ladies seem to have up and down results - Miahara 5th and 1st, Sakamoto 5th and 2nd. The most consistent was Higuchi who was even lucky to get to GPF because if Wagner and Pogorilaya were not injured, I am pretty sure it would be Higuchi who would lose.

I am not denying that Japanese lades are on the rise, but I wouldn't be spreading panic yet because at the moment it is Russia who comes on top.

 

[russianfan]

As for russia, we got:
220 Medvedeva
210 Pogorilaya, Zagitova, Tuktamysheva, Tsurskaya
200 Radionova, Sotskova

Alina is going to join that "220 club" soon, mark my words!

 

[madison]

Alina is going to join that "220 club" soon, mark my words!

Hope so

 

[hanca]

People should learn how to love and also be objective at the same time. Guys, it's obvious that madison and tars love Russian ladies. We all do. : But I was talking about the same a few pages before.

Somehow Russia always has only two strong skaters. Lip and Sotnikova, Radio and Tukt, Medvedeva and Pogorilaya, now Medvedeva and Zagitova. Others skaters are not strong enough. Sotskova with her 125/140/128 scores, Tsurskaya with her crap free program (but very nice music) and empty skating without consistency, Radio with weak skating always about ~130 points if she is clean. And Pogorilaya, who can't manage with injuries and mind.

As I said, only juniors will make interesting Russian Nationals 2018.

(just make Alena eligible and give her the third spot for the Olympics!)

You seem to have a very short memory. Russia always have only two strong ladies? Really?

Season 2013-14
Four strong ladies got to GPF
Julia Lipnitskaya - 1st and 1st GP;
Adelina Sotnikova - 2nd and 2nd GP
Elena Radionova - 3rd and 2nd GP;
Anna Pogorilaya - 1st and 3rd GP

Season 2014-15
Four strong ladies got to GPF
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 2nd and 1st GP
Elena Radionova - 1st and 1st GP
Anna Pogorilaya - 1st and 2nd GP
Julia Lipnitskaya - 2nd and 2nd GP

Season 2015-16
Only two ladies got to GPF, but another one was 3rd at Europeans and 3rd at worlds, so she should be probably counted as strong too. Additionally, three more ladies got one medal at GP. You can argue that those three should not be counted as strong if they underperformed in their other GP event, but they did exactly the same the top Japanese ladies did this season and you consider Japanese ladies strong...
Evgenia Medvedeva - 1st & 2nd GP
Elena Radionova - 3rd & 1st GP
Anna Pogorilaya - 4th & 9th GP, 3rd Euros 3rd Worlds
Adelina Sotnikova - 3rd GP
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 2nd& 5th GP
Julia Lipnitskaya - 6th& 2nd GP

Season 2016-17
Four strong ladies got into GPF. Fifth lady got only one medal at GP, so she may/may not be considered strong...
Evgenia Medvedeva - 1st & 1st GP
Anna Pogorilaya - 1st & 1st GP
Maria Sotskova - 2nd& 3rd GP
Elena Radionova - 2nd& 1st GP

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 4th & 3rd GP

This current season
Three ladies got into GPF, and additionally two more got a medal at GP. If Tsurskaya and Radionova doesn't qualify as 'strong' skater, why do you count any Japanese ladies as strong?
Evgenia Medvedeva - 1st & 1st GP
Alina Zagitova - 1st & 1st GP
Maria Sotskova - 2nd& 2nd GP

Polina Tsurskaya - 3rd & 4th GP
Elena Radionova - 4th & 3rd GP

 

[puremagic]

You seem to have a very short memory. Russia always have only two strong ladies? Really?

Really, hanca. Thanks for your work, I like to chat with people who can provide some information and isn't lazy to do that.

But by strong I mean Zhenya's and Alina's type: high TES, high PCS and consistency. Even after mistakes: remember Zhenya's fall at her first senior WC in the SP? And what a counter attack in the FS with a new world record! Same we saw with Alina, even after three failed SPs in a row, she always shows amazing free programs.

When Russia will get a third consistent lady with high PCS - then we'll talk.

But telling tales about Russian domination you can only when at Russian Nationals will compete six Evgenias, six Alinas and six Alenas.

 

[russianfan]

But telling tales about Russian domination you can only when at Russian Nationals will compete six Evgenias, six Alinas and six Alenas.

if there would be six Evgenia's and six Alina's - there would be no point for anyone else to participate at any figure skating competition whatsoever, because it would be impossible to get a medal even at Challenger Series event