2017 CS Finlandia Ladies FS

[jcmerman]

I am so thrilled about Angela Wang! So happy for her! I have been waiting for her to start competing like she did this weekend. I hope it just gets consistently better for her this season. She is one I would not mind at all on the Olympic team!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'm so happy to see that Angela W has so many new fans!

 

[Blades of Passion]

Angela Wang was great, I've been rooting for her since 2012, but I can't say she would deserve to be on the Olympic team. Her jump layout isn't ideally maximized and she still didn't skate totally clean, although I do think she easily should have finished 2nd place here and I'm liking her more than Mariah Bell this season.

 

[OS]

Hopefully true, but who knows how the judges would score that masterwork; they held her down a lot even when she was in her prime. Asada's "Claire de Lune" should be the highest scoring Ladies SP of all time in my book (given that there was also an additional technical element in the program - the spiral sequence).

Interesting... pity she had to go against The Danse Macabre. She is such a beautiful classical skater, certainly a class above anything we saw today, but Danse Macabre was such a dynamic and compelling ladies SP which really stand out against the more traditional archetype ladies sp. In many ways, they are quite evenly matched and contrasted.

Just had a look at their protocols back then

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0809/gpf0809_SeniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

vs today

http://www.figureskatingresults.fi/results/1718/CSFIN2017/CSFIN2017_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Mao's PCS was 59.60, Kostner's PCS was 57.68 with better tech content.

Consider scale value hasn't deviate that much other than rewards for 3A, no mandatory spirals today, GOE has been reduced by 30% but are more generously given today. PCS inflation has really shielded those preset at a higher threshold of PCS, regardless of technical delivery or better techniques. Same Kostner performance today judged in 2008 would not have medalled then, despite improved artistry, the TES gap would have been too wide if she does not deliver the tech content.

It looks like they had the right TES/PCS balance right back then, except for the undervalued triple axel. People paid better attention to music, choreography, interpretation and techniques too, quality was important.

 

[yyyskate]

speaking of Clair de lune, I always thought this is the most beautiful, delicate, ethereal, vulnerable... I have ever seen.
If you don't know what I mean already, better click the link and watch it, your eyes will thank you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Vi2QweFww

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Hopefully true, but who knows how the judges would score that masterwork; they held her down a lot even when she was in her prime. Asada's "Claire de Lune" should be the highest scoring Ladies SP of all time in my book (given that there was also an additional technical element in the program - the spiral sequence).

Because her TES would be higher (with current values of the jump) her PCS will be higher too. PCS is generally higher today just because TES is generally higher (and PCS is always meant to bring around 50% of the total score). Thats the reason why they will change the rules by reducing values of some technical elements, because PCS cant keep the pace with TES anymore. I hope you can see that point (and no point in comparing those scores with today scores)

 

[Blades of Passion]

I'm not comparing her score from that time to the scores now, just saying Asada was usually scored low in relation to her competitors no matter what time period, and the superior qualities in a performance like her "Claire de Lune" are not really valued these days. That program should score higher than the stuff being put out by Eteri's skaters these days, but it probably wouldn't. Karen Chen showed some similar qualities in her "On Golden Pond" SP and yet was scored below Daleman and Pogorilaya at Worlds, and given the same PCS as Sotskova, which was not correct to me.

It's interesting to look at how Asada's SP from that time COULD have scored, though:

3Flip+3Loop, +1.5 goe = 12.0 points
3Lutz, +1 goe = 7.0 points
SpSq4, +2 goe = 5.4 points
FSSp4, +1.5 goe = 3.75 points
2Axel, +2 goe = 5.5 points
StSq4, +2 goe = 5.9 points
CCoSp4, +2 goe = 4.5 points
LSp3, +2.5 goe = 3.65 points

Tech total = 47.7 points

PCS = 9.75 on average = 39 points

Total score = 86.7 points

When you see the kind of scores given out now, it's funny to think about what the scores could have been like back then, with the higher GOE factoring on the elements (except for spins) and a whole extra technical element in the program.

Anyway, whatever the scoring system, I think Asada's "Claire de Lune" should be the highest scoring Ladies SP ever, or else the scoring system and/or the judges are not working.

 

[4everchan]

it's Clair not Claire...

 

[Blades of Passion]

I didn't know you were opening a tomato, tomatoe resturant! Can't wait to see the menu.

 

[ice coverage]

I didn't know you were opening a tomato, tomatoe resturant! Can't wait to see the menu.

And I can't wait to go to a resturant, whatever that is.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I didn't know you were opening a tomato, tomatoe resturant! Can't wait to see the menu.

Poisson, poison......... mème chose pour vous, n'est pas?

 

[kevinVchicago]

Well, it obviously wasn't good today, but I can imagine it somehow. I don't love it, but I get it. If she hits, I think it can be a mix of hard and soft. She isn't trying to Tonya Harding us into submission. If only—I guess I am also saying she needs to bring more of that strength and athletic prowess. Her dresses are nice even though last year's were even better.

Plenty of people start the season hot and flame out, so I'm not too concerned for anyone yet unless they look injured or stagnant.

Good point about hard and soft. I guess the music and costume both felt a bit drab and solemn to me. Similar to what I thought about Laurine's new SP, although I like the choreo of that better than Gabby's new FS. Definitely want to see her skate it well... maybe it just left me confused.

 

[Blades of Passion]

And I can't wait to go to a resturant, whatever that is.

LOL, typing on the phone does do these things. Even better to point out what a waste of time it is to talk semantics. :gclap:

 

[gotoschool]

I always loved Mao in good times and bad. She is so amazing. But it was right that her scores for the last two years took her out of the top tier and out of contention for the Japanese team. However sad it made me, it was still a joy to see her skate. Her technical content wasn't there, and she was assessed accordingly. Should be the same for Kostner. There's no joy in watching Carolina be propped up this way.

Despite the great beauty of her skating, Mao did make quite a few mistakes in her come back due to injury, illness and nerves,but with just a couple of exceptions, Mao has always been scored extremely harshly in terms of urs, edge calls, step sequences, spirals, spins, lower GOE and PCS, and deflation across this many categories for her many great qualities adds up to a whole lot of points. This blatant deflation also put extra pressure on her performances and forced her to try more difficult tech content to make up for the underscoring as at Japanese Nationals 2016 where it was more difficult because of her knee injury.

 

[OS]

And I can't wait to go to a resturant, whatever that is.

You guys are more than welcome to my restaurant always.

Ketchup and cheese beef stroganoff with extra onions on the left, Fine Dining international cuisines on the right. All same prices, truly ISU style.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Despite the great beauty of her skating, Mao did make quite a few mistakes in her come back due to injury, illness and nerves, with just a couple of exceptions, Mao has always been scored very harshly in terms of urs, edge calls, step sequences, spins, lower GOE and PCS, and deflation across this many categories adds up to many points. It also put extra pressure on her performances and forced her to try more difficult tech content to make up for the deflation as at Japanese Nationals 2016 where it is was more difficult because of her knee injury.

I saw her at Skate America last year. Despite not having her top technical content, it was so beautiful to watch her and I feel so lucky for having had that opportunity.

 

[largeman]

I saw her at Skate America last year. Despite not having her top technical content, it was so beautiful to watch her and I feel so lucky for having had that opportunity.

I miss Mao...

 

[solani]

I know that placement matter more to you than points, and I can respect that. Valid arguments about Dabin, also. But Carolina's PCS should have been 21.61 points higher than Dabin's? [emoji43]

Mid 6's to 7's in each of the PCS categories seem reasonable. But you could also ask why Maria gets about 18 points more than Dabin. Is this too much? I don't know ... do jumps count too much and are spins undervalued? I don't think so. But there are a lot of things about this judging system we could discuss. With the current judging system a skater like f.e. Lipnitskaya never really received what she very likely deserved for her spins on TES. But did the spins affect her PCS? I'm sure the judges were impressed, so yes, I do think this affected her PCS and I agree with that. Figure skating is special imo, because there is more than one way to be successful, there are different ways to be a great skater. I think judges need something that they can truly admire, they are also fans after all. If everything is just nice and not special in any particular way they just don't type in the high numbers.
Carolina had errors on two jumping passes but then the judges obviously enjoyed themselves. I think that they are happy when they can give positive GOE's and admire a good skate, like we all do.

 

[leafygreens]

because "poor artistry" is just your subjective opinion

Well it's a subjective part of scoring for the judges as well, so I don't know what that means. In my opinion you can tell a clear overall artistic quality difference with Kostner over other skaters. This quality should be rewarded. It makes performing the elements harder.

Yeah....what the heck?

She sort of reaches toward her belt line right afterward to. Weird.

Re: Gabrielle - It was her ponytail holder that fell off!

 

[russianfan]

Well it's a subjective part of scoring for the judges as well, so I don't know what that means. In my opinion you can tell a clear overall artistic quality difference with Kostner over other skaters. This quality should be rewarded. It makes performing the elements harder.



Re: Gabrielle - It was her ponytail holder that fell off!

What i mean is that everyone is different, and has their own view of what they consider "a good artistry". There is no universal formula of good artistry and that's why there always will be complaints about PCS until the end of times. Some people consider only skating to soft/lyrical music as good, which is wrong. Some people consider other music style/artistic skills to be more important. To me for example, the best performance in this season was Tarakanova's SP in Salzburg, but a lot of people here considering that an awful/messy/stupid performance (may be because they used to see a lot of lyrical-like/warhorse skates and don't consider anything else as an option). I, on the other hand, would rather watch that SP a hundred times, instead of watching ten skaters in a row doing la la land/carmen/butterly/or <insert any warhorse here>.