2017 CS Finlandia Ladies FS

[kevinVchicago]

I think what she brings to the ice is so beautiful. Kostner is a gem. Like Mao. But I would agree that she has to improve her technical content. Or wait and see if they will do an artistic and technical program split. I can see her being very competitive if they do that.

I always loved Mao in good times and bad. She is so amazing. But it was right that her scores for the last two years took her out of the top tier and out of contention for the Japanese team. However sad it made me, it was still a joy to see her skate. Her technical content wasn't there, and she was assessed accordingly. Should be the same for Kostner. There's no joy in watching Carolina be propped up this way.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Luckily for you, you will only have to suffer a mere 6 months more.....oh, Worlds are in Milan....I wonder.....:scratch3:

Is she retiring after the Olympics?

 

[jenaj]

For real, did they actually gave Caro 126 points for a 4 triples program?
I know its not her fault, but i wish she didnt come back to participate in this bs.

Why is it, however, that I got fully engaged in Carolina's LP but was bored by Maria's? Both skated to Debussy and Maria was superior technically. Carolina deserved her high PCS. If skating is all about tech, then they should eliminate the second mark.

 

[Arriba627]

Sad for Gabby but she never does well early in the season if I remember correctly and last year's bronze was a bit of a fluke.

I remember Gabby had surgery after the season ended. I never heard any more about that. Hopefully no news is good news. Has there been any talk about whether she is fully recuperated? Hope she is well.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Why is it, however, that I got fully engaged in Carolina's LP but am but was bored by Maria's? Both skated to Debussy and Maria was superior technically. Carolina deserved her high PCS. If skating is all about tech, then they should eliminate the second mark.

Personally, I was equally engaged by them (maybe slightly more by Kostner's). But I don't think people are arguing that Kostner's PCS should be lower that Sotskova's. Danielle Harrison and Annely Vahi also gave very engaging performances.

 

[MaiKatze]

Is she retiring after the Olympics?

I think she will definitely go to Milan. Depending on who's going, she could medal, if the stars align.

 

[solani]

I mind it because it is unfair to other skaters.
I dont like when judges give away "emotional" points, which are not actually deserved by the skater. It is unfair to her, and to other skaters.
As someone pointed out, is the 20 points PCs gap between Caro and Dabin actually fair? Dabin's pcs are basically 2/3rds of Caro's PCs, does that REALLY and TRULY reflect the difference between those 2 skaters?

Imho, at some point art should be in a museum exibition, not in competitive skating.

I like Dabin but she actually had a more flawed program than Carolina. Two UR's and problems with spin levels on two spins as well. And her skating skills aren't that good yet ... I can't see how she should be anywhere near Carolina's PCS.

I want to point out that the tech panel was very strict. Not even Carolina got a level 4 step sequence and only a few got level 3. But Carolina got level 4 on all her spins, that's what helped her TES (I think she is the only skater in this event who got level 4 on all of her spins!).
So if we want to focus on the technical elements we shouldn't only focus on jumps.
Angela and Elizaveta also had some level issues by the way. Level 2 step sequences are a problem.

So I agree with the overall result. Sotskova - Kostner - Tuktamysheva - I think the judges got that right.

Regarding PCS in general: I know that there has to be a connection between the executed elements and the possible PCS. Some errors do affect the overall impression, no doubt about that. The question is - to what degree? Should we ignore the years / decades of work on PCS that someone like Carolina put in to get to that level of proficiency? What message would that be to all the young skaters, that it's not worth to work on that aspect of figure skating? I want to remind you - it's still called figure skating and not jumping on ice or something.

 

[pearly]

Regarding PCS in general: I know that there has to be a connection between the executed elements and the possible PCS. Some errors do affect the overall impression, no doubt about that. The question is - to what degree? Should we ignore the years / decades of work on PCS that someone like Carolina put in to get to that level of proficiency? What message would that be to all the young skaters, that it's not worth to work on that aspect of figure skating? I want to remind you - it's still called figure skating and not jumping on ice or something.

Program components are not something which easily translates when you watch skating on TV. To me there is nothing questionable about Carolina's PCS. I've read the rulebook.

 

[kevinVchicago]

I like Dabin but she actually had a more flawed program than Carolina. Two UR's and problems with spin levels on two spins as well. And her skating skills aren't that good yet ... I can't see how she should be anywhere near Carolina's PCS.

I know that placement matter more to you than points, and I can respect that. Valid arguments about Dabin, also. But Carolina's PCS should have been 21.61 points higher than Dabin's? [emoji43]

 

[Blades of Passion]

I love the last spin of Kostner's program. Each part of it naturally flows from one position to the next and effort is put in to create interesting shapes with each position. This is also the ONLY combination spin someone does these days where all 3 positions are shown on both feet. Ever since they changed the rule to where you only need to do 3 positions on the second foot to receive level credit, everyone just does 1 position on the first foot and then 3 positions on the next foot. It tends to create unbalanced looking spin combinations.

 

[beki]

I'm a little surprised to see Maria's LP called boring. I saw a gorgeous, musical skate. She's taken a big step forward. I love Pogo, but if she can't make it, I hope Sotskova does.

Gabby has good vehicles this year, but with Zagitova in the picture and the Japanese women performing well, I think she needs to up the technical ante.

I will side eye Caro podiuming at the bigger events, but she is wonderful to watch.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why aren't there pictures with Masha and her mittens!! :ddevil:

 

[kevinVchicago]

I'm a little surprised to see Maria's LP called boring. I saw a gorgeous, musical skate. She's taken a big step forward. I love Pogo, but if she can't make it, I hope Sotskova does.

Gabby has good vehicles this year, but with Zagitova in the picture and the Japanese women performing well, I think she needs to up the technical ante.

I loved Maria's FS too.

You like Gabby's FS? I really thought it was horrible. [emoji17] But I love her SP.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why aren't there pictures with Masha and her mittens!! :ddevil:

Found one!! Whew...thought I was gonna go crazy there for a minute.


Gotta scroll right for the 2nd pic.
https://instagram.com/p/BZ_4mwsBo7g/

 

[beki]

I loved Maria's FS too.

You like Gabby's FS? I really thought it was horrible. [emoji17] But I love her SP.

Well, it obviously wasn't good today, but I can imagine it somehow. I don't love it, but I get it. If she hits, I think it can be a mix of hard and soft. She isn't trying to Tonya Harding us into submission. If only—I guess I am also saying she needs to bring more of that strength and athletic prowess. Her dresses are nice even though last year's were even better.

Plenty of people start the season hot and flame out, so I'm not too concerned for anyone yet unless they look injured or stagnant.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I'm a little surprised to see Maria's LP called boring. I saw a gorgeous, musical skate. She's taken a big step forward.

Her program didn't have much to do with the music for me. I mean, she tries to be delicate and soft at times, but it feels artificial. The movement doesn't come from within her and express outward; it's like she is trying to mimick what she was told to do and doesn't want to mess it up and doesn't feel the music or really understand it in the first place. She's also doing an arm over the head on almost every jump and it tends to look strained or out of place. A couple of her spins are relatively clunky against the music too. I also dislike the music change after her first spin of the program, it doesn't really work.

The best Claire de Lune has to be Mao Asada. She truly understands the vulnerability, the loneliness, the hope, the gentle caress of the music and expresses it with perfect refinement. There is a gigantic gap in quality between Maria Sotskova's performance and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul7_q9kasuI

 

[temadd]

For real, did they actually gave Caro 126 points for a 4 triples program?
I know its not her fault, but i wish she didnt come back to participate in this bs.

And only 3 of the triples were clean.

 

[RemyRose]

Found one!! Whew...thought I was gonna go crazy there for a minute.


Gotta scroll right for the 2nd pic.
https://instagram.com/p/BZ_4mwsBo7g/

at Land Fin! I think she is supposed to cross her hands

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Her program didn't have much to do with the music for me. I mean, she tries to be delicate and soft at times, but it feels artificial. The movement doesn't come from within her and express outward; it's like she is trying to mimick what she was told to do and doesn't want to mess it up and doesn't feel the music or really understand it in the first place. She's also doing an arm over the head on almost every jump and it tends to look strained or out of place. A couple of her spins are relatively clunky against the music too. I also dislike the music change after her first spin of the program, it doesn't really work.

The best Claire de Lune has to be Mao Asada. She truly understands the vulnerability, the loneliness, the hope, the gentle caress of the music and expresses it with perfect refinement. There is a gigantic gap in quality between Maria Sotskova's performance and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul7_q9kasuI

But it's not as if they scored Masha way too high or anything. 137 is good but fairly modest when you consider what other ladies are scoring this season. Some with errors. She's not going to get what Mao would get if Mao were competing and putting out her best level stuff in this day and age.

 

[Blades of Passion]

She's not going to get what Mao would get if Mao were competing and putting out her best level stuff in this day and age.

Hopefully true, but who knows how the judges would score that masterwork; they held her down a lot even when she was in her prime. Asada's "Claire de Lune" should be the highest scoring Ladies SP of all time in my book (given that there was also an additional technical element in the program - the spiral sequence).