2017 CS Finlandia Mens FS

[Erin S]

I haven't been able to find a feed and the FS are not up on youtube right now, but am I missing something? Why all of the crepe hanging for Adam? He came in third and less than 3 points off the lead...he looks right in the mix to me, and after a long hiatus that's pretty fabulous! Maybe the view that his moment has passed will make more sense to me once I've seen the free skates?

 

[OS]

Most fs fans are unlikely to be star wars fans so most people won't be bothered about all that trivial stuff.

Poorly constructed program can be universally recognized regardless of context or knowledge. There are 3 distinctive elements from that program construct that do not relate to each other.

1. Majestic opening from Holst's Mars (War music with whole symphony)
Transition into
2. Funny bar lounge swing music with big band (Jitterbug Style popularised in N. America during earthly 1920s/30s.)
Transition into
3. Finally STAR music of lesser well known piece (Orchestral again).

These 3 section music had been put together like some background music from a Medvedeva program. I can only hope Boyang can get her type of PCS following the same approach, but am afraid he is merely a Chinese boy who actually need substance and firepower to earn his small incremental PCS if judges feel generous enough on the day.

You don't mess with iconic well known material and decide to play collage artiste for the Olympic season, otherwise you are simply setting someone to fail.

Out of all the OST (16 tracks 74 minutes of material + 5 other episodes of OST), they had to pick Cantina band as main representative of Starwars?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axZemDfcfX8

Frankly, there had been too many coincidences of setting team China to fail. It is like Lori can produce good work whenever she feel like it but only to the selected few, the rest are just paychecks. She may have even been secretly harbour loyalty to N.American skaters. You look at the quality of work she did for Nathan Chen this season, compare with what she has given to BoyanJin here, how can one not able to see the discrepancy between them and shake their head?

Now imagine them switch their programs, how do you think it can affect their PCS impressions for the season.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well he's a lock because his PCS will rise and his URs will be ignored. But that's kind of the problem I'm talking about. If his URs were called, then people like Adam, especially if he can land his one quad can hope to bridge the gap with the PCS, even if Vincent's go up a bit. But if they're not, the sheer number will simply end the day before it even started.

We'll see. Nathan has a bit of a gap on the rest of the field and the next tier (Max, Jason, Vincent and Adam) are basically in the 250-260 range.

 

[shine]

Not a single UR for Vincent?!

But FOUR for Boyang??

Sorry Boyang, should have been born in the US of A I guess.

At least they called them in the SP, I guess.

 

[mrrice]

This Elvis song will always remind me of Julia Lip...sob...

On the other hand, this program is as weirdly constructed as previous one. Random Elvis jammed together.. no explanation or cohesion. Saturday at pub... Kolyada looks exhausted, is he injured?

Poor Adam, that was SOOOOO CLOSE!!!!!!!!

Maybe he was upset by the fire alarm. I know he wasn't in that flight but, you never know what can affect a skaters mind. The commotion of having to evacuate could have thrown off his pre ice warm up.

 

[yyyskate]

Poorly constructed program can be universally recognized regardless of context or knowledge. There are 3 distinctive elements from that program construct that do not relate to each other.

1. Majestic opening from Holst's Mars (War music with whole symphony)
Transition into
2. Funny bar lounge swing music with big band (clarinet main piece, Jitterbug Style popularised in N. America during earthly 1920s/30s.)
Transition into
3. Finally STAR music of lesser well known piece (Orchestral again).

These 3 section music had been put together like some background music from a Medvedeva program. I can only hope Boyang can get her type of PCS following the same approach, but am afraid he is merely a Chinese boy who actually need substance and firepower to earn his small incremental PCS if judges feel generous enough on the day.

You don't mess with iconic well known material and decide to play collage artiste for the Olympic season, otherwise you are simply setting someone to fail.

Out of all the OST (16 tracks 74 minutes of material + 5 other episodes of OST), they had to pick Cantina band as main representative of Starwars?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axZemDfcfX8

Frankly, there had been too many coincidences of setting team China to fail. It is like Lori can produce good work whenever she feel like it but only selected few, the rest are just paychecks. She may have even been secretly harbour loyalty to N.American skaters. You look at the quality of work she did for Nathan Chen this season, compare with what she has given to BoyanJin here, how can one not able to see the discrepancy between them and shake their head?

OS, I have to say Nathan's FS is kinda a piece of genius from Lori...And people cannot help but wonder... I also heard that (a couple of words from Nathan's interview), Lori is very involved with the FS she did for Nathan, it seems she went into length to discuss with Nathan about her creative direction and how to interpret etc. Also, it is quite out of character for Lori to choose such an unique piece of music. That never been used in figure skating and nobody knows, yet she is kinda known for recycle music...

 

[Leppis]

I haven't been able to find a feed and the FS are not up on youtube right now, but am I missing something? Why all of the crepe hanging for Adam? He came in third and less than 3 points off the lead...he looks right in the mix to me, and after a long hiatus that's pretty fabulous! Maybe the view that his moment has passed will make more sense to me once I've seen the free skates?

Personally, I think Adam had a great debut back into competition. I think nothing is certain of the US spots to olympics, so nobody should make any rash judgements here. If Adam can nail the quad lutz and have all his other technical content also clean then I think Vincent will have trouble getting into the team. But you never know what happens!

Edit: here's Adam's FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3g_CN1OVk

 

[Yatagarasu]

Frankly, there had been too many coincidences of setting team China to fail. It is like Lori can produce good work whenever she feel like it but only to the selected few, the rest are just paychecks. She may have even been secretly harbour loyalty to N.American skaters. You look at the quality of work she did for Nathan Chen this season, compare with what she has given to BoyanJin here, how can one not able to see the discrepancy between them and shake their head?

I've been hearing those mutterings ever since Boyang's program first showed up. The discrepancy between what she gave to Nathan and what she gave to Boyang is simply too big. It isn't that Nathan's program is better, that'll simply happen but with what she produced with Boyang, as it is actively bad, and essentially undermining the guy, well I cannot blame them.
(personally I just think she just doesn't give a fig about Boyang and simply just did whatever, whereas she actually is invested in Nathan)

I do blame the Chinese Federation though. It's the start of the season, the Olympic season and they should drop this program into the trash and scramble, quickly for something better. They have known since that local one this is not good.
And they should stop going to Lori all together. Hurt her where it counts. The money.

 

[WeakAnkles]

As I said - it is part of the Star Wars soundtrack!!

It doesn't matter if it is part of the same soundtrack, it makes NO SENSE in the skating program. He's skating along to this rather drahmahtic score and then all of a sudden it's like he decides, for no apparent reason in the program whatsoever, wouldn't it be a kick to do some 20s/Charleston-inspired steps. And after a short interlude of all this mugging it's like he thought better of it, then, again for no apparent reason, went back to the drahmah!

It's incoherent.

 

[Erin S]

Leppis, thanks so much for posting Adam's fs! I love this program so much.

 

[shine]

I think it's unfair to blame ill presented programs solely on Lori and quite presumptuous to say she favours her NA clients over her Chinese ones. The programs she did for P/J this season and S/H last season have been excellent, but they also happen to be great interpreters of music. And no one was calling her lazy or disloyal to her Chinese clients when Boyang skated to the crowd pleaser Spiderman SP, which played on his strengths and hid his weaknesses. When a program is not good, maybe there's ALSO something to be said about the very interpretive ability of the skaters themselves. A choreographer can only do so much.

 

[xeyra]

It doesn't matter if it is part of the same soundtrack, it makes NO SENSE in the skating program. He's skating along to this rather drahmahtic score and then all of a sudden it's like he decides, for no apparent reason in the program whatsoever, wouldn't it be a kick to do some 20s/Charleston-inspired steps. And after a short interlude of all this mugging it's like he thought better of it, then, again for no apparent reason, went back to the drahmah!

It's incoherent.

Someone elsewhere said it was akin to a commercial break in the middle of the program.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I think it's unfair to blame ill presented programs solely on Lori

Normally, I'd agree with you but this is not an ill presented program. This is simply a terrible program. Nobody can save this mess, no matter how good they are at performance or interpretation. From the absolutely ridiculous music cut to the rest.
And if she's capable of producing that for Nathan, a program that is truly something, from the music selection to skillful emphasis of his best sides, and nice hiding of his faults, then she should be capable of at least assembling a decent one for Boyang. I don't blame people who raise an eyebrow when Boyang just happens to be competing against Nathan and has beaten him when it counted.

Now I don't subscribe to any intent on her part but I do think she just doesn't care about Boyang while she does about Nathan and it shows. Ultimately though, the fault lies in the Chinese Fed who allows this, not her, because they should protect their skater and they're not doing it.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Someone elsewhere said it was akin to a commercial break in the middle of the program.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I think it's unfair to blame ill presented programs solely on Lori and quite presumptuous to say she favours her NA clients over her Chinese ones. The programs she did for P/J this season and S/H last season have been excellent, but they also happen to be great interpreters of music. And no one was calling her lazy or disloyal to her Chinese clients when Boyang skated to the crowd pleaser Spiderman SP, which played on his strengths and hid his weaknesses. When a program is not good, maybe there's ALSO something to be said about the very interpretive ability of the skaters themselves. A choreographer can only do so much.

I give Jin MAJOR credit for trying to stretch his range, to mature as a performer. Like I said, cute can only take you so far. The SP works. The LP does not. And these really are Jin's first two programs that don't feel like they would fit comfortably into a junior's event. He's growing--and he has growing pains.

 

[thoakun]

Just caught up with Boyang's FS. I've never wished skaters to abandon programs, because I always believe that even mediocre programs can be saved with more mileages, but this hodgepodge of bang bang music , coupled with cringe-worthy, irrelevant Charleston steps and finally some unrecognizable pieces are beyond salvation. He has 0 personality in it. That's quite telling when boring is typically not his weaknesses.

Admittedly I'm not a fan of Star Wars but I love Satoko's programs. At this point, either La Strada or Dragon will trump this horrible mess

 

[OS]

I think it's unfair to blame ill presented programs solely on Lori and quite presumptuous to say she favours her NA clients over her Chinese ones. The programs she did for P/J this season and S/H last season have been excellent, but they also happen to be great interpreters of music. And no one was calling her lazy or disloyal to her Chinese clients when Boyang skated to the crowd pleaser Spiderman SP, which played on his strengths and hid his weaknesses. When a program is not good, maybe there's ALSO something to be said about the very interpretive ability of the skaters themselves. A choreographer can only do so much.

OH don't get me wrong.. i really thought she did a great job for several skaters earlier than the season, but this STAR WARS makes me think she either has not seen the movie, does not care, have gone into her autopilot mode: another Han Yan, let's make another comedic program like I always do, just change the background music to fit the program. Her latest 'effort' for Boyang was simply appalling, and completely disrespect the source material. It shows she

Does not respect John William's work
Does not care for Star Wars
Does not care for story telling.
Does not care for the music.
Does not care for how it makes the skater look.
Choreography for choreography's sake, leave everything else to skater's devise.

Not even Stephan Lambiel, Daisuke Takahashi can save this mess if they need to break out the solemn majestic war theme of Mars, into a jokey bar lounge as a early 20th century Joe in N.America, then apparently beamed right back to Star War Universe and pretend the Jitterbug moment did not happen, and just carry on for no apparent reason. What creative direction, emotional expression, thematic purpose can you possibly come up to make sense of all these? What would be the right interpretation?

 

[Violet Bliss]

I think it's unfair to blame ill presented programs solely on Lori and quite presumptuous to say she favours her NA clients over her Chinese ones. The programs she did for P/J this season and S/H last season have been excellent, but they also happen to be great interpreters of music. And no one was calling her lazy or disloyal to her Chinese clients when Boyang skated to the crowd pleaser Spiderman SP, which played on his strengths and hid his weaknesses. When a program is not good, maybe there's ALSO something to be said about the very interpretive ability of the skaters themselves. A choreographer can only do so much.

:yes:

When a skater does not do well, it's easy for fans to blame the choreographer as the scapegoat. The program is a collaboration accepted by the skater and his team. When the result is not satisfactory, the team needs to assess the issues and, if necessary, rework with the choreographer.

Some fans like to trash Lori but skaters love her. Self proclaimed authorities in different aspects of skating like to pick on the programs according their "specialties" but there are reasons why Lori is a favorite of elite skaters, the contenders for Worlds and Olympic medals. She has probably the most winning programs among the choreographers. Her programs are custom choreographed to suit the skaters' skills and styles, with modification to accommodate increased technical abilities when necessary. There are so many complexities to designing a program for any particular skater than armchair critics can fathom.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Skaters "love" Lori because having her name on their program automatically makes them seem more respectable. She has done some great work, some mediocre work, and some bad work. Lori deserves blame when she doesn't create something great, as it should be in any industry. She succeeded with Nathan Chen this season and she failed with Sui/Han and Boyang.

 

[OS]

:yes:

When a skater does not do well, it's easy for fans to blame the choreographer as the scapegoat. The program is a collaboration accepted by the skater and his team. When the result is not satisfactory, the team needs to assess the issues and, if necessary, rework with the choreographer.

Some fans like to trash Lori but skaters love her. Self proclaimed authorities in different aspects of skating like to pick on the programs according their "specialties" but there are reasons why Lori is a favorite of elite skaters, the contenders for Worlds and Olympic medals. She has probably the most winning programs among the choreographers. Her programs are custom choreographed to suit the skaters' skills and styles, with modification to accommodate increased technical abilities when necessary. There are so many complexities to designing a program for any particular skater than armchair critics can fathom.

I find your comment here quite amusing and ironic. Which of us including yourself are not armchair critics here.

It is perfectly possible that

Great choreographer can produce shuddy work.
Great skaters can have bad days.
Fantastic credible judges can make poor decisions.
Great artists can produce lazy complacent work (ahem... repeats)
Great technicians can have great artistic breakthroughs
And that yes, even arm chair critics can offer better insights - than average insiders, as they are not constraint by political correctness and how such gossips may affect their professional, political standing within the 'industry' and the 'feds'.

Skaters are young impressionable people, they'd likely to worship any world famous choreographers they think can bring them a win... young Chinese kids especially have different attitudes to 'collaboration' towards authoritarian adults due to their upbringing. They are very likely just follow what they are being told and never challenge them.

Bottom line is, this come down to professionalism. If Chinese Fed pay her the big bucks, they deserve professional work. This does not even meet the C standard worth of a choreographer of her caliber. What's so Star Wars about it? 3 music edits from different composers, periods, genres edited together without purpose, not relating to anything Star Wars, no story telling, no character, I don't even know how any of the choreography can be related to Star Wars, and where in the whole program screams Star Wars? How does this befit to an Olympic standard FS and China's big hope. China likely to have paid big Hermes prices, they deserve Hermes Quality.