2017 Glacier Falls FSC Summer Classic

[karne]

Jason's footwork sequence is so beautiful, muzak and all! Love him. Poor thing can't jump for _____ but I love him.

Have figure skating fans always been so irrational and knee-jerk defensive when it comes to their favorites? Or is this more of an internet era thing?

I mean, if in the mid-90s you said something objectively true, like 'Lu Chen is such a fabulous skater on so many levels but her spins are ghastly', would all the skating hausfraus freak out and insist that she was a brilliant spinner?

It's beyond me.

Here's the thing, though. You explicitly stated that "Jason can't jump for ___". If you'd said "shame he can't do a quad" then you wouldn't have got half the reaction that you did. The problem was that you stated something that is patently, objectively untrue.

Because Jason can jump. He has beautiful triples and a beautiful triple Axel. Skaters who "can't jump for ____" don't jump the way Jason does. He has a good, tight air position, lovely lines, and good flow in and out of his jumps. His triples regularly attract +GOE. So clearly, Jason can jump, and the judges agree that he can.

And if this is about the number of doubles in his FS here - that was planned. Anyone who's followed Jason for more than two minutes knows that Jason always plans doubles in his first couple of outings of a new FS. It's standard procedure. It doesn't signify anything.

 

[shmay]

He's out of Olympic medal contention solely because of his jumping (in)ability.

I think he's probably the most engaging skater in the world, and I love watching him. But denying his shortcomings isn't going to magically get that quad sal around.

 

[Mrs. P]

People are talking over each other I think. Nobody is saying Jason is an Olympic medal contender. I think there's a general understanding (even among fans) that Jason needs quads stat to be in contention.

But that isn't the same thing as saying that he can't jump at all. Relatively speaking only a small percentage of male skaters around the world can do triples and even a smaller percentage can only do a triple Axel. While Jason is not part of the even small group that has landed a quad regularly, as far as the spectrum of jumpers -- he's closer to being in the, let's say, 75th-80th (maybe arguably higher) percentile. Being an Olympic medalist, however, requires you to be in like the 95 percentile.

Jason's other skills, i.e. his performance/choreography/non-jump elements are easily in the 95th percentile. However, since jumps make up a majority of content, this is why he isn't a contender.

This reminds me of a person who finished at the triathlon in my area. He finished 1st in both the running and bicycling portions of the event, however he was 70th in the swimming portion, which resulted in an overall finish of 30th. If Jason doesn't get quads, he'll have a similar position at the Olympics---top 5 in PCS/non-jump elements -- but likely be in the bottom half because of his relatively lower jump BV. And it might lessen his chances to get on the team in the first place, even if he racks up points everywhere else.

I get that people are impatient with him, cause the jumps are clearly not where his other skills are at and that's where area of emphasis is at.

Jason will either get quads or he won't. I don't think it precludes him, at this point, from people wanting him to be at the Olympics or perhaps find another way to make a splash in the sport. But I certainly don't expect every skating fan to appreciate his contributions to the sport.

 

[el henry]

Have figure skating fans always been so irrational and knee-jerk defensive when it comes to their favorites? Or is this more of an internet era thing?

I mean, if in the mid-90s you said something objectively true, like 'Lu Chen is such a fabulous skater on so many levels but her spins are ghastly', would all the skating hausfraus freak out and insist that she was a brilliant spinner?

It's beyond me.

When called on the inaccuracy of your statement, that Jason doesn't have any *jumps* (not quads, jumps) you doubled down on it. Then, you completely changed the subject to "a skater without quads won't medal at the Olympics". Who disagrees with that? What does that have to do with the original claim that "Jason doesn't have *any* jumps"? It's beyond me.

And really, I have been called many things in this life, but "hausfrau" is a first. I don't know who or what you are referring to with your borderline sexist statement that "all the skating hausfraus freak out". But certainly not to the strong, accomplished posters-who-happen-to-be-female on these Boards. And who point out logical inaccuracies in posts.

Did you mean to say Jason has not landed a clean quad in competition? I would say that Jason fans agree (well, SA is extremely questionable, but that's how it was called). Did you mean to say that without a quad, Jason or anyone else won't medal at the mens event in the Olys? Jason fans would agree.

So next time, say that. The discussion will be shorter

 

[TontoK]

People are talking over each other I think. Nobody is saying Jason is an Olympic medal contender. I think there's a general understanding (even among fans) that Jason needs quads stat to be in contention.

You're a very nice person, Mrs P.

For me, I've sort of gotten past Jason and the quad thing. I've spent a couple of frustrating seasons with him, both in terms of jump content and programs.

He'll either get the quad or he won't. I wish him well.

Quad or not, his LP this season is already my favorite work that he's done. It is magnificent. Maybe he'll fill it in with quads, and maybe he won't. It doesn't effect my feelings on the program as a whole. He won't score well internationally without the jumps, but oh well.

 

[Mrs. P]

You're a very nice person, Mrs P.

For me, I've sort of gotten past Jason and the quad thing. I've spent a couple of frustrating seasons with him, both in terms of jump content and programs.

He'll either get the quad or he won't. I wish him well.

Quad or not, his LP this season is already my favorite work that he's done. It is magnificent. Maybe he'll fill it in with quads, and maybe he won't. It doesn't effect my feelings on the program as a whole. He won't score well internationally without the jumps, but oh well.

Thanks for the kind words.

i think though I feel that Jason is a hard skater to pinpoint and/or discuss cause he's sort of wedged between "non-competitive fan-favorite" to "cream of the crop." He's more than a fan favorite cause, quite frankly, because he's achieved more than audience applause.

There will always be a segment that will enjoy him inspire of whatever weaknesses he has because he is such an engaging skater. However, he's overachieved in spite of his technical challenges. His personal best score, overall and FS is the 11th highest of ALL TIME (granted, he's the beneficiary by the general increase in PCS scores over the year). His short program score, which is the 12th highest of all time of 93+ is the highest ever without a quad.

But yes, 93/182 is no longer good enough for a medal in an era where the top guys are scoring 300+ (100/200 or more). But it shows he has solid technical ability, if not the highest.

All that said, and to loop it back to Glacier Falls -- I think Jason is inching closer to getting one of those two quad jumps in competition. Neither attempt at Glacier Falls was great, but was was somewhat encouraging is that he did not let the rest of the SP go (which we've seen in past quad attempts) and the fact that he put his 4S out there tells me it's coming along in practice, but just needs some mileage in a competition setting. A year ago, he didn't even attempt the quad in either SP/FS at Glacier Falls last year (though the strategy then might have been very different since his programs were much further along).

 

[Mathman]

Have figure skating fans always been so irrational and knee-jerk defensive when it comes to their favorites? Or is this more of an internet era thing?

I think that the Internet has encouraged users to express their thoughts in exaggerated language. Lu Chen's spins were not "ghastly," for instance. I think that's all people are saying.

 

[TontoK]

I think that the Internet has encouraged users to express their thoughts in exaggerated language. Lu Chen's spins were not "ghastly," for instance. I think that's all people are saying.

Well, come to think of it, it was around the time Lu Chen was spinning that my hair started to turn gray.

So, shmay might be on to something.

 

[Tavi...]

Have figure skating fans always been so irrational and knee-jerk defensive when it comes to their favorites? Or is this more of an internet era thing?

I mean, if in the mid-90s you said something objectively true, like 'Lu Chen is such a fabulous skater on so many levels but her spins are ghastly', would all the skating hausfraus freak out and insist that she was a brilliant spinner?

It's beyond me.

Interesting that you're wondering about the alleged irrationality and knee jerk defensiveness of figure skating fans when in fact you're (1) creating your own version of reality, which is not exactly a rational thing to do; and (2) using offensive, sexist, language such as "skating hausfraus" to describe everyone who's not you, disagrees with you, or challenges you. I'd say you're probably getting exactly the response you expected and were seeking.

 

[Ender]

Here's the thing, though. You explicitly stated that "Jason can't jump for ___". If you'd said "shame he can't do a quad" then you wouldn't have got half the reaction that you did. The problem was that you stated something that is patently, objectively untrue.

Because Jason can jump. He has beautiful triples and a beautiful triple Axel. Skaters who "can't jump for ____" don't jump the way Jason does. He has a good, tight air position, lovely lines, and good flow in and out of his jumps. His triples regularly attract +GOE. So clearly, Jason can jump, and the judges agree that he can.

And if this is about the number of doubles in his FS here - that was planned. Anyone who's followed Jason for more than two minutes knows that Jason always plans doubles in his first couple of outings of a new FS. It's standard procedure. It doesn't signify anything.

Brown has quite good basic take-off. He can jump. It's just he isn't that super at rotating 4 revolutions on air. If I were to judge his basic skills, I would rank Brown the highest among current American men. But the current system awards higher numbers of revolutions. So we take it as it is.

 

[Mrs. P]

FWIW, Jason has managed to fix his flutz and eventually get the 3A down. History shows that it takes him longer to master jumps compared to other skaters but when he gets them, he got them. It remains to be seen whether he can tackle the quad jumps, but we'll see.

One thing Jason does have that has helped him in the past is that he has some versatility with combos. He's introducing the 3z-1l-3f in the FS and he's worked on the 3a-1l-3f. He can do 3t and 1l-3s combos (3a/3z/3f-3t and 3z/3f-1l-3s). It doesn't fully make up for the lack of quad but it does rack up some decent points, especially when he does them in the second half.

 

[shmay]

This reminds me of a person who finished at the triathlon in my area. He finished 1st in both the running and bicycling portions of the event, however he was 70th in the swimming portion, which resulted in an overall finish of 30th.

Well, I was at that very same triathlon, and after said triathlete emerged from the water, one of his fans in the crowd said 'Love him. Poor thing can't swim for _____ but I love him."

 

[Mrs. P]

Well, I was at that very same triathlon, and after said triathlete emerged from the water, one of his fans in the crowd said 'Love him. Poor thing can't swim for _____ but I love him."

The guy can still swim though. Being 70th in a triathalon doesn't mean he's a crappy swimmer. He's just not as fast as the 69 people ahead of him.

FWIW, my friend who covered the triathlete for the local newspaper did say. "Hey, if only he could swim better! He would have had a better placement cause he won the bike and run portions." But he didn't say he was a crappy swimmer.

That said, I get that perhaps you're exaggerating to make your point -- but just keep in mind that doesn't come through in a text-based forum sometimes. (Emojis help in that regard)

 

[ice coverage]

Good news, bad news.

Good news: IceNetwork has uploaded 2017 Glacier Falls junior and senior videos.

http://web.icenetwork.com/schedule/2017/07/2017_glacier_falls_summer_classic​

Bad news: For days/weeks, I have not been able to get any IN videos to play on my computer. Same (at least for me) for the new GF videos.

 

[Sabrina]

Good new, bad news.

Good news: IceNetwork has uploaded 2017 Glacier Falls junior and senior videos.

http://web.icenetwork.com/schedule/2017/07/2017_glacier_falls_summer_classic​

.

The videos on Icenetwork don't work as the play/stop button seems inactive. No error message...Do you need a subscription to view the recordings? If so, they should have asked me to subscribe.

 

[karne]

It is not usual to need a subscription to view the Glacier Falls videos for IN. I will test this when I get home tonight and see if it works on my computer.

 

[el henry]

Just got done watching Sean Rabbitt and Tequila: first program of the men's SP. No subscription necessary, although for me, it is blurry on full screen (no HD option).

The audio is blessedly clear. Now to see what "Hamilton" looks/sounds like.....

 

[Ross74]

The videos on Icenetwork don't work as the play/stop button seems inactive. No error message...Do you need a subscription to view the recordings? If so, they should have asked me to subscribe.

This was happening to me in Firefox. When I switched browsers it worked!

 

[el henry]

This was happening to me in Firefox. When I switched browsers it worked!

And I used Firefox, on my Mac desktop, and it worked ... I did have to watch the LTS ad twice, however.

Gremlins.

 

[Skater Boy]

Same could be said of ALL the American women. They can't be fighting for medals if they keep worrying about hitting their routines because they don't do it often enough in competition. I think Karen's the closest thing we have to a medal threat because she has all of the goods to be competitive. Gold would be up there if not for what she's going through now. Ashley has won a medal, but she needs to improve some of her TES short comings. Mirai, we'll see if she can finally stop with her drama (to be fair most of it was NOT her fault with the boots and stuff) and make it about the skating. With a consistent 3A who knows what Mirai is capable of, but it's exciting.

True, so true about the American lady. I do find it hard to cmprehend "if they could get consistent" or the triple axel or in the case of men quads. We all use these jumps freely on this site and it is hard because as we have found out saying you can do one ie triple axel for ladies or quads for guys, doing it in practice, versus once in a while competitive versus really having it in their repertoire ie 70percent landed at least competitive is different. In the case of Mirai at least from what I have seen - I am not even sure she has landed one in competition or even a very messy one without rotation issues etc. I mean there has been more talk about her triple axel than actually her landing it competitively.