2017 GP Cup of China Free Dance

[Bcash]

These reactions sound soooo threatened. You guys sure are showing a lot of faith in your faves and the Moulin Rouge FD, aren't you? P/C hit more levels than V/M today, that's it, but I'm sure your inane screaming on here and on twitter, youtube, etc... will make the judges reconsider their decision :thumbsup: Glad to see some things never change and Voir fandom is still the toxic shrill-fest it always was.

Yeah some people are so insecure. V/M are skating at NHK soon, why not look forward to that? I'm sure they'll be motivated. And then P/C will try to make another statement at their home event. This is simply competition.

TBH, I think V/M should probably be held against a higher standard, given their Olympic medals and their whole attitude after Sochi and with returning to competition (as if wronged by the entire world for not getting a second Gold). Instead they've been the biggest beneficiaries of reputation judging. (116+ with a stumble and touch-down anyone?)

 

[Bcash]

Even after years V/M still are fresh. what are you going on about?

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P/C were totally overscored here. SMH.

I think V/M did improve in terms of their body placements. Under Zueva (and other teams under Zueva/Shpilband have this problem too) their hips often drift apart during/after some difficult steps. But their program concepts are not that interesting. Giving more face doesn't keep you fresh.

 

[rosy14]

You're saying P/C were overscored e.g. in their TEB 2013 SD?

Posts like this are so funny!

They are always overscored for what they do, especially in SD. They were 13th at Wolrds 2014 and won Worlds 2015. Never seen a so huge improving and a so prodigious career not only in FS, but in other sports too. Usain Bolt too didn’t rise to
winning status in such a short period of time.
As Medvedeva they are quite good in what they do. Problem is, both she and they can do only one thing, their thing.
They will stop to be overscored when other skaters, favoured and pushed by federation and judges, which will have finally enough of “same old, same old”, will appear, no matter how well, or even better, they will tht day perform.
.

 

[Purv]

These reactions sound soooo threatened. You guys sure are showing a lot of faith in your faves and the Moulin Rouge FD, aren't you? P/C hit more levels than V/M today, that's it, but I'm sure your inane screaming on here and on twitter, youtube, etc... will make the judges reconsider their decision :thumbsup: Glad to see some things never change and Voir fandom is still the toxic shrill-fest it always was.

I remember v/t fans after winning gold medal in 2014 by Americans.They were bleating about how the fix was in when D/W won, even though D/W had been the top dance team for a couple of years. It's fine to prefer your home team or think they should win, it's another to be convinced that the other team cheated to win. Still some fans hmm dont like Meryl and Charlie. Just the past day or so they were nagging about Davis/White being overscored on lifts because Meryl didn't jump into them like Tessa. It's been four years. Let it go.

Let's face it, part of the reason Tessa's jumping is because Scott needs the help. He's not big enough to hold her in a split lift while spinning multiple times. (Or limber enough to cradle her in a really low lift like P/C). They're not an ideal match size-wise.

 

[rosy14]

Indeed... ! After the Chinese plot, the president of the French fed ! Sooooo obvious! ROFL
Tell us more entertaining stories like these ones, it's so fun
This thread becomes more and more hilarious

Gaihlaguer, after the SD at Euros 2017, wrote a message in which he was infuriated, really, really angry, that a so wonderful, marveillous, masterful couple (choose any word you prefer) were thrashed in such a way. All that because they were third with less than 3 points from the second (who, by the way, were not the latest in rankings). Not to mention his message after Worlds 2017, again ery angry on how badly his precious children had been treated. Very, very angry, also a little menacing.
I cannot say anything on Chinese Fed, but I know, as everyone here, who Gaihllaguer is.

 

[rain]

Ok, when I heard Chock/Bates were skating to Imagine I was not enthused. I pictured something both schlocky and dated looking. I could not have been more wrong. This program is amazing. Love the choreography (very special) and they present it beautifully. The first lift is divine. You could tell it was a first outing and I can't wait to see it again later in the season. They were slow through the twizzles, and slowed through some of the footwork. These are things that will come with miles. Much, much better material than last season.

Between them, the Shibs, and H/D, not to mention Hawayek and Baker who had one of my favourite FD performances last weekend, the American championships is going to be brutal. Who will go into the Olympics as American champs?

 

[Anyasnake]

In this field, Papadakis really impressed me with her upper body, arms, and head movements. Chock looked more like a skater executing elements than a dancer.
The Skating Lesson guys once commented how Papadakis is always fluid and light while Tessa Virtue is all radiating force from the core, indicating the latter is more impressive. I agreed with them then but now I can't help but feel this fluidity and ethereal quality is probably harder to achieve when you have to execute all those elements and pushing with your feet all the time.

I like this comparaison that you make. First, Gabriella really impressed me today and I also noticed her arms more than usual, it was so fluid !
And you are right, Tessa has this incredible extension which I think is unmatched. She makes the lifts so impressive.
(For once I'll agree with the Skating Lesson...)

 

[ChanClan]

While I agree that the Virtue Moir fandom has toxic people in it, the same can be said about every teams fandom. There is always going to be people who are toxic in every fandom. Everyone has horrible things said about them and for what? Because we all believe that our team is the best. We all have different tastes and opinions. Some take it too far and yeah the Virtue Moir fandom is extremely loud, but please stop thinking one fandom is better than the other because in my experience every fandom is the same. You can say that you've never seen these people in your fandom but I would say that's because you aren't looking. Just cuz you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So instead of hating on other teams why don't we all just enjoy what our favourite teams have brought? Wishful thinking, I know.

 

[Purv]

Gaihlaguer, after the SD at Euros 2017, wrote a message in which he was infuriated, really, really angry, that a so wonderful, marveillous, masterful couple (choose any word you prefer) were thrashed in such a way. All that because they were third with less than 3 points from the second (who, by the way, were not the latest in rankings). Not to mention his message after Worlds 2017, again ery angry on how badly his precious children had been treated. Very, very angry, also a little menacing.
I cannot say anything on Chinese Fed, but I know, as everyone here, who Gaihllaguer is.

So this guy Gaihllaguer lately became more powerful in ISU and judgdes are forced to give french such big scores?

 

[Anyasnake]

While I agree that the Virtue Moir fandom has toxic people in it, the same can be said about every teams fandom. There is always going to be people who are toxic in every fandom. Everyone has horrible things said about them and for what? Because we all believe that our team is the best. We all have different tastes and opinions. Some take it too far and yeah the Virtue Moir fandom is extremely loud, but please stop thinking one fandom is better than the other because in my experience every fandom is the same. You can say that you've never seen these people in your fandom but I would say that's because you aren't looking. Just cuz you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So instead of hating on other teams why don't we all just enjoy what our favourite teams have brought? Wishful thinking, I know.

No, you're right. The only difference is that Tessa&Scott have more fans, thus, more weirdos. We can all respect each other's preferences :thumbsup:

 

[StormyCloudss]

Some thoughts:

P/C were gorgeous here! I'm really loving it more than Finlandia and Masters, though I'm still not 100% sold on the program, but it's super early in the season, so there's a lot of time to grow. However, I will say that this is my least favorite program from Mozart, To Build a Home and last years'. (Don't kill me!) We'll come to judging later.

C/B - gah! I mean, their skate was nice enough, and their program was nice enough, but I just wish they went a different route. Madison is so expressive and can be so dramatic that I wish they did something a little more exciting. This program reminds me of V/M's FD last year - beautiful, kinda experimenting with the P/C fluidity and softness, and not necessarily to their emotive strengths. I wouldn't call them subdued, and emotionally I connected with them a bit more than P/C simply because they are outward expressers; I just wish they did something to harness that outwardness a bit more.

B/S - they lost a couple levels, but I wish they had done better by virtue of this being their best free program in recent memory. I haven't been crazy about them in the past simply because I think they got a lot of benefit of the doubt by virtue of being Russia's #1, but I genuinely enjoyed this today! Their GP season (minus GPF if they make it) is over, so I'd really like them to work on their fundamentals; they seemed slower and their edges weren't deep, since they were going after C/B and P/C, especially.

Now, judging, the consistently controversial part. Everyone repeat after me: scores are not consistent between competitions. P/C were great today and definitely deserved the best marks of today. You can't really compare those marks to V/M's from SC because there were different sets of judges and tech controllers. Some people say that VM had home inflation, some people say that CoC judges were overly generous with PCS this entire competition. Both have merit. We all have our favourites, I get it. I grew up watching VM and I cried in 2006 and 2010 and 2014 (for different reasons.) I think collectively we need to calm down because this whole "discarding someone's opinion because they're an uber" is really not conducive to having a open minded conversation. Some people love, love, love PC and others love, love, love VM. We have biases regarding other teams because of it.

Accept that other people have different favourites and will disagree with your opinions of your favourites, and move on. But getting aggressive and defensive is really not helping the situation and frankly, I think it sometimes turns these threads into shitshows. I've started avoiding these threads because of it (also the time difference, but I digress.) We're also only halfway through the GP season, with the GPF and Nationals and Olympics and Worlds to come. If this keeps going, I shudder to think of the situation by the time Olympics roll around. So please, can we get a bit more moderation here?

 

[rain]

Much better performance for P/C than their last outing. Loved the rotational lift near the beginning, right into the spin. Great timing to the music. Probably the best I've ever seen them twizzle. One small spot in the footwork where they noticeably slowed, but I expect that to smooth out with time. Can I just say, enough with the overhead camera. So annoying.

I still prefer the power and drama of Virtue/Moir's FD, but all in all, this is so much better than going into the last Olympics where I liked neither V/M's nor Davis/White's free dances.

I'm much more excited in general about the dance season now. I complained in this forum earlier this season that I didn't love any of the free dances yet, but now I have at least half a dozen I enjoy. So yay for me!

 

[rain]

Some thoughts:

P/C were gorgeous here! I'm really loving it more than Finlandia and Masters, though I'm still not 100% sold on the program, but it's super early in the season, so there's a lot of time to grow. However, I will say that this is my least favorite program from Mozart, To Build a Home and last years'. (Don't kill me!) We'll come to judging later.

C/B - gah! I mean, their skate was nice enough, and their program was nice enough, but I just wish they went a different route. Madison is so expressive and can be so dramatic that I wish they did something a little more exciting. This program reminds me of V/M's FD last year - beautiful, kinda experimenting with the P/C fluidity and softness, and not necessarily to their emotive strengths. I wouldn't call them subdued, and emotionally I connected with them a bit more than P/C simply because they are outward expressers; I just wish they did something to harness that outwardness a bit more.

You stated very eloquently how I felt about P/C's FD. I'm just not totally sold yet. I think I'm a bit of an outlier on these two, since last year's FD was my favourite of theirs so far. At least I think this program is going in the right direction in terms of choreography tweaking and performance.

I had the opposite reaction to Chock/Bates. I understand what you're saying about their performance strength (and they could certainly pull off a more dramatic Virtue/Moir-type FD), but I think this year's FD is such a huge improvement over last year's experiment (and that truly was an experiment). I thought I might feel the way you do going into it, but as it turns out I think this style suits them quite well. It helps that I love the choreography.

 

[Anyasnake]

Much better performance for P/C than their last outing. Loved the rotational lift near the beginning, right into the spin. Great timing to the music. Probably the best I've ever seen them twizzle. One small spot in the footwork where they noticeably slowed, but I expect that to smooth out with time. Can I just say, enough with the overhead camera. So annoying.

Better Twizzles in Finlandia I think. The first one was a tiiiiny scratchy and at this level, judges will nitpick.
Actually B/S scored 8.14 on twizzles, and P/C 8.06.
I noticed the slower footwork at some point in the Midline Steps (with that stupid camera work) and they did not get any +3 GOEs for that, that's cool.

 

[ancientpeas]

I think you mean "berths"....

Thanks, yes that's what I meant. :embarrassed:

I was actually trying to be funny but it falls flat when you screw up the spelling.

 

[Astrid56]

Based on their performances, Chock moves like a ballerina _ her arms and hands are graceful ... fluid. Tessa is also a great dancer but she relies heavily on posturing ...masterful seduction/expressions, and Gabriella, I'd say, has perfected her movements (muscle memory working very well for her) but her movements tend to be a bit gangly (as shown in their SD). V/M's Carmen is beautiful, dramatic, and cohesive. P/C's Moonlight Sonata is more into what's visually aesthetic while C/B aims to eloquently convey their dance's message/theme. Both V/M and P/C are past the 'test' stage and are now concentrating on what else they can improve to keep their scores. C/B is still exploring the possibilities in terms of levels to make their performance Olympic worthy. The die has not been cast yet despite the top teams' overwhelming scores: as one popular expression notes "it ain't over till the fat lady sings".

 

[ancientpeas]

Gosh.. some real toxic stuff in this thread.

So.. I watched and I thought P/C were very good. I think I prefer it V/M's FD. The Short dance isn't even close for me. I'd have V/M ahead by quite a bit against everyone.

But it's all about levels and GOEs as far as the judging goes.

I don't think the Chinese and French were in some kind of conspiracy. Otherwise there would be more French skaters here hoping to do well with that favoritism. J/C wouldn't have gone to SC to skate against D/R and S/M. They would have come here. And Laurine.

Someone can think that P/C or V/M are better than the other without it being ubering. Sometimes it's just about personal preference.

 

[StormyCloudss]

You stated very eloquently how I felt about P/C's FD. I'm just not totally sold yet. I think I'm a bit of an outlier on these two, since last year's FD was my favourite of theirs so far. At least I think this program is going in the right direction in terms of choreography tweaking and performance.

I had the opposite reaction to Chock/Bates. I understand what you're saying about their performance strength (and they could certainly pull off a more dramatic Virtue/Moir-type FD), but I think this year's FD is such a huge improvement over last year's experiment (and that truly was an experiment). I thought I might feel the way you do going into it, but as it turns out I think this style suits them quite well. It helps that I love the choreography.

That's totally fair. This is a major improvement over last year - last season was most definitely an experiment, from the music choice to costumes. The choreo is great in this one, but I just can't help but feel they would be better suited with something more dramatic. I'm definitely eager for their next GP to see if it grows on me, but I guess for now we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[ancientpeas]

Based on their performances, Chock moves like a ballerina _ her arms and hands are graceful ... fluid. Tessa is also a great dancer but she relies heavily on posturing ...masterful seduction/expressions, and Gabriella, I'd say, has perfected her movements (muscle memory working very well for her) but her movements tend to be a bit gangly (as shown in their SD). V/M's Carmen is beautiful, dramatic, and cohesive. P/C's Moonlight Sonata is more into what's visually aesthetic while C/B aims to eloquently convey their dance's message/theme. Both V/M and P/C are past the 'test' stage and are now concentrating on what else they can improve to keep their scores. C/B is still exploring the possibilities in terms of levels to make their performance Olympic worthy. The die has not been cast yet despite the top teams' overwhelming scores: as one popular expression notes "it ain't over till the fat lady sings".

Moulin Rouge or were you being ironic?

 

[Purv]

I'm so annoyed with the overscoring that's going on this season. I get it's the Olympics but come on. It's everybody's first GP and records are being broken already.

On Skate Canada top teams got Personal Best in short. W/P got 77. 47! When they are gonna get such scores again??If french were there, they would get over 80 points also, because iI dont belevie that they would get 78. Thats normal