2017 GP Cup of China Ladies SP

[Blades of Passion]

Wakaba Higuchi easily won this Short Program. Daleman's pre-rotated (on BOTH jumps) 3Toe+3Toe is overrated and should not be getting a +3 GOE. At the same time Higuchi's combo was underscored, that was definitely a +2 quality element and yet most judges only gave +1 (one judge even gave a 0 :no. Daleman's layback was bad and should not have received credit for sideways position either. Her program lacks the intricacy of others and is nothing special in terms of interpretation. Her skating skills are fine but also not on the level of Higuchi. Not to mention, Higuchi also delivered the best 2Axel of the competition! There's literally no reason at all Daleman should have been ahead. Her jump layout is easier and not executed any better, her spins flawed, and her footwork and presentation just average. Higuchi was better in EVERY area.

Marin Honda was held down with a phantom underrotation call. Hilariously, Radionova is the one who underrotated her combo the most here (although I liked her presentation very much), and she didn't get called for it! The nonsensical judging never stops.

Alina Zagitova's program is overstuffed it's true, the music edits at the end are what annoy me most, but there's still a very special quality to her. She displayed clearly better positions than anyone else here. The fall was shocking for her but she recovered well, and let's not forget she is doing the most difficult jump combo possible. She honestly deserved to be ahead of Daleman even with the fall.

1. Wakaba Higuchi
2. Marin Honda
3. Alina Zagitova

Learn to do a layback Daleman or stop putting it in your program, thank you.

 

[4everchan]

Well, if that combo has already given her +3 GOE across the board, i dont doubt its exceptional. The problem is people didnt see it live, so we dont have right perception how big it is in terms of hight and ice coverage. We cant have adequate perception watching it on TV. And this reminds me on thing i wanted to say earlier before when i saw comments about some skaters from this competition. Its regarding Wakaba, and peoples agreement about judges uderscoring her skating. Cause i watched her live, and she is good and skates fine and fast, but she just doesnt fill ice rink quite yet, doesnt jump very high or rotate fast, she skates very straight without all body involvement, so somehow it doesnt appear she skates big and that interesting when watching her live. I mean she is good, but i can easily see how others outscoring her in GOE and PCS :confused2:

i have seen this combo live twice... it's HUGE... not just in height... the first jump has a very long trajectory... she needs a lot of ice or she would be in the boards...then the second jump goes higher than the first jump and she rotates comfortably over the ice... she just lands with a flowing running edge... all taken from a short ina bauer.. really... it's a signature combo ... despite being able to do the lutz combo, she has decided not to change it because this one is MONEY. I haven't seen wakaba... but i have seen Mai... and Mai is also sort of like that... refined but not fast nor emoting much and not filling the ice. I can see why her PCS are not as high as some of the others... I would love to see Wakaba or Marin next...

 

[BackSpiral]

BV shouldn’t affect how much GOE is rewarded. The GOE judges the jump itself, not how difficult the jump is.

And also, this isn’t even the highest GOE Gabby received for that combo. She got +2.00 here. But she received +2.10 (which is the highest possible GOE for a triple) six times last season.

Right. If Daleman's combo does not deserve maximum GOE, I don't know what does.

Both Honda and Radionova had URs in their programs. It's very clear, their blades were on the ice completing the final rotation of the jump. In Honda's case this was true of the flip and the toe, but they only went after the toe. I do think Honda wasn't properly rewarded in her PCS marks.

 

[rain]

Right. If Daleman's combo does not deserve maximum GOE, I don't know what does.

Both Honda and Radionova had URs in their programs. It's very clear, their blades were on the ice completing the final rotation of the jump. In Honda's case this was true of the flip and the toe, but they only went after the toe. I do think Honda wasn't properly rewarded in her PCS marks.

I thought it utterly ridiculous that the frantic, cluttered and messy Zagitova scored almost identical PCS to Honda. I've been beginning to wonder if there's something about Honda live that doesn't come across and TV, as she seems to me to have everything it takes to get much better PCS than she's been getting.

 

[Blades of Passion]

If Daleman's combo does not deserve maximum GOE, I don't know what does.

Midori Ito's or Yu-Na Kim's, of the females. Daleman very clearly cheats the jump entrances by swinging her free leg wide and turning on the ice. She doesn't vault straight up into the air. The size of the jumps are great but it's not a pure technique, you want to first jump and then rotate.

 

[dailytg20]

In my experience, it's unusual to hear that loud and 'universal' of a collective gasp at a competition; so I have to assume DALEMAN's jump combination is indeed super impressive to witness live (...certainly even moreso than how impressive it looks on T.V.!)

The disparity between the coverage and the live event was probably exacerbated by the fact the camera work for this event was absolutely bananas.

I don't remember if it's always been the case for Cup of China (or maybe it was Four Continents or Japan Open), but the shots were all over the place for no reason. Every time a spin occurred they went to a high crane shot which made the whole thing look like some sort of clay pottery challenge. At one point for Wakaba they panned from the far end of the rink so she was basically the size of a postage stamp sliding across the ice, and then followed that up with a closeup head and shoulders shot, which has never been a useful angle in the history of the sport.

 

[BackSpiral]

Midori Ito's or Yu-Na Kim's, of the females. Daleman very clearly cheats the jump entrances by swinging her free leg wide and turning on the ice. She doesn't vault straight up into the air. The size of the jumps are great but it's not a pure technique, you want to first jump and then rotate.

I'll take a closer look at it again. Yes to Ito and Kim. In fact Daleman's combo reminds me of Yu-Na's 3 Lutz-3 Toe combo in terms of maintaining the speed and flow.

 

[rain]

Midori Ito's or Yu-Na Kim's, of the females. Daleman very clearly cheats the jump entrances by swinging her free leg wide and turning on the ice. She doesn't vault straight up into the air. The size of the jumps are great but it's not a pure technique, you want to first jump and then rotate.

This phantom cheating you're talking about is just patently, blatantly false. Don't take my word for it. This is one of the best performed jump combinations in the world over the last few seasons, per numerous different judging panels and technical specialists the world over at different competitions.

 

[randomfan]

Just watched the Mai-Liza collision in the warm-up, and it got me wondering: was that why Mai’s jumps looked shaky today? Liza’s jumps seemed to be fine so maybe Mai was hurt more.

Also, it’s collisions like these that always make me terrified during warm-ups. 6 skaters are all on one rink, all focused on warming up, going into jumps with a lot of speed. We really don’t need an accident like the one in the Men’s FS at 2014 COC to happen ever again.

 

[matmuh]

Just watched the Mai-Liza collision in the warm-up, and it got me wondering: was that why Mai’s jumps looked shaky today? Liza’s jumps seemed to be fine so maybe Mai was hurt more.

she said she has little pain because of the collision but didnt say much about it cause it would sound like an excuse (this reminds me of Yuzuru, no wonder they are 2 of my favourite skaters :luv17, wishing for stellar skate from her today, good luck Mai!

 

[Blades of Passion]

This cheating you're talking about is just patently, blatantly false.

Nope, I am correct. Watch her foot, in the slow-mo if you need that. Daleman clearly swings her foot around on the takeoff. Now watch the takeoffs of other people I have named. You will see a difference. Others go straight back into the jump and as a result they get more rotation in the air.

 

[Miss Ice]

Nope, I am correct. Watch her foot, in the slow-mo if you need that. Daleman clearly swings her foot around on the takeoff. Now watch the takeoffs of other people I have named. You will see a difference. Others go straight back into the jump and as a result they get more rotation in the air.

Medvedeva does that too. She pre-rotates all her toe jumps by 1/2 rather than jumping straight after picking.

 

[rain]

Nope, I am correct. Watch her foot, in the slow-mo if you need that. Daleman clearly swings her foot around on the takeoff. Now watch the takeoffs of other people I have named. You will see a difference. Others go straight back into the jump and as a result they get more rotation in the air.

More like seeing what you want to see I think.

 

[moriel]

Midori Ito's or Yu-Na Kim's, of the females. Daleman very clearly cheats the jump entrances by swinging her free leg wide and turning on the ice. She doesn't vault straight up into the air. The size of the jumps are great but it's not a pure technique, you want to first jump and then rotate.

Technique aside, i´m not sure if that combo actually checks 5-6 bulletpoints for a +3 GOE.

I mean, if thats a +3 because its huuugeee, Alina's 2A could be +3 for the sheer awesomeness of that entry.

 

[Blades of Passion]

More like seeing what you want to see I think.

:whack:

Have you even tried to look at the examples I gave? If you took a little bit of time to examine more closely, then you would see it too. There's nothing different about anyone's ability to see something like this (at least in slo-mo, to start with), assuming you aren't suffering from a very serious eyesight issue. The only difference is awareness.

Medvedeva does that too. She pre-rotates all her toe jumps by 1/2 rather than jumping straight after picking.

Pre-rotating the toeloop by 1/2 is totally standard, but many people these days (most of the women these days, sadly) do more than that. Medvedeva does 3/4 of a turn on those entrances and you can also see Daleman using this swingier kind of toeloop entrance as well. Jump combos should ideally look like someone is on a trampoline, bouncing right back up into the next jump after the prior landing.

Alina's 2A could be +3 for the sheer awesomeness of that entry.

No way, not even close. Her 2A is too small and spindly and lacking flow out to ever deserve more than +1. The entry is not THAT difficult either, she takes a moment to reset herself after the choreography before it and does a standard step from one foot to the other when she actually takes off. The most difficult axel entrances are the ones where the takeoff foot itself was in a difficult position leading directly into the jump.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Not sure if it was posted or not but here is Alina’s SP with Yulia’s commentary translated to English. Yulia is very sweet to her and in my totally biased opinion does a very good job. I think it’s really fascinating hearing the words of someone who only last season competed on the GP in front of similar judging panels with similar tendencies. She has a very calm understanding of things and just gives us a unique perspective. If you are interested then just click the link below

https://youtu.be/COcREQzbv5M

PS- She doesn’t talk much during the performances.

Massive thanks to Katia K. who has been translating these videos at all three events.