2017 GP Internationaux de France Mens SP

[Tolstoj]

It is the wrong message.

PCS should matter, especially those who have clearly worked hard to able to demonstrated great PCS performances, better than the rest of the field..

You have multiple crazy PCS for the ladies for the likes of Evegenia and Carolina despite obvious technical flaws, but you treat someone like Denis so completely different. That is inconsistent and poor judging standard. People should call ISU up on it. Either one should come down, or the other need to go up.

The thing is right now they don't consider Denis a top skater anymore. His previous GP event was a meltdown, and same goes for almost all his competitions last year except TDF and partially Worlds.

If Carolina keeps bombing her programs, you'll see her pcs falling down.

 

[rosy14]

Haha, riiiight?! #DoubleStandards

Although, I'm surprised that the judges actually didn't give Uno 9.5+ for PE, as they've done to other top skaters who've committed errors.

If Javi skates clean, judges, especially Europeans, will always give him higher PCS than Shoma.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I haven't understood Shomas scores for awhile now. They seem much too high for what he does out on the ice imo. He's obviously not bad and I enjoy some moments of his programs but as a whole I find them to be stuffy and slow. Poor Max. He really does have to be near perfect to get high scores and I really think he'll get beat by a quadless but clean Jason at us nationals if he doesn't perform his quads flawlessly.

It's unfortunate that Max has had to fight for higher marks, but Jason is a MUCH better skater. That being said, Max SHOULD beat Jason if he goes clean at Nationals, assuming Jason likely won't execute a clean quad himself. But so far it looks like he's taken a step back since his strong showing in China. Hopefully he can regroup in the FS.

As far as Shoma, those scores were ridiculous. But it's official, he's now in the camp of Hanyu/Chan/Fernandez and can commit a major error but still get over 90% PCS.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If Javi skates clean, judges, especially Europeans, will always give him higher PCS than Shoma.

Well, it's hard to say... when both are on, they're kinda even for me (Shoma with better skating quality, Javier with better performance quality). I prefer Javi's jumps but prefer Shoma's spins and footwork.

 

[evasorange]

It's unfortunate that Max has had to fight for higher marks, but Jason is a MUCH better skater. That being said, Max SHOULD beat Jason if he goes clean at Nationals, assuming Jason likely won't execute a clean quad himself. But so far it looks like he's taken a step back since his strong showing in China. Hopefully he can regroup in the FS.

As far as Shoma, those scores were ridiculous. But it's official, he's now in the camp of Hanyu/Chan/Fernandez and can commit a major error but still get over 90% PCS.

Oh I totally agree that overall Jason is a better skater then Max. Jason has imo some of if not the very best spins in the world. But when it comes to jumping I actually think Max's better, they just have so much power! Hopefully he'll come out guns blazing tomorrow and rise in the standings

 

[karne]

It's unfortunate that Max has had to fight for higher marks, but Jason is a MUCH better skater. That being said, Max SHOULD beat Jason if he goes clean at Nationals, assuming Jason likely won't execute a clean quad himself. But so far it looks like he's taken a step back since his strong showing in China. Hopefully he can regroup in the FS.

I don't think you'll ever find a Max fan who has ever disagreed with the concept that Jason is a better basic skater than Max. The concept that I - and a lot of other Max fans - struggle with is that so many other skaters still seem to get given high marks when they fall or make errors, but as soon as Max makes an error, his score plummets like a stone in water.

Even just this morning there were two other skaters who fell who scored 80+ (leaving Uno out of this discussion for reasons). I could somewhat justify Kvitelashvili's scoring (though not sure I would have gone for 86) due to second quad but Ten's quad was underrotated and he didn't try a second and I thought he was rather slow this morning and he still outscored Max by five points.

Was Max on fire this morning? No, no he wasn't. But I didn't think he was so terrible that he should have scored under 80.

 

[gold12345]

Tammy and Tom (and Drew): what are you doing with Vincent?

He can land one quad lutz, or one quad flip but both is incredibly risky and his skating isn't anything great to cover all these costly mistakes.

Yes. This seems to be an attempt to keep up with Nathan Chen and to be more competitive in general internationally, which is understandable and should be encouraged. But it also works against him when it goes way wrong.

I don't think you'll ever find a Max fan who has ever disagreed with the concept that Jason is a better basic skater than Max. The concept that I - and a lot of other Max fans - struggle with is that so many other skaters still seem to get given high marks when they fall or make errors, but as soon as Max makes an error, his score plummets like a stone in water.

Even just this morning there were two other skaters who fell who scored 80+ (leaving Uno out of this discussion for reasons). I could somewhat justify Kvitelashvili's scoring (though not sure I would have gone for 86) due to second quad but Ten's quad was underrotated and he didn't try a second and I thought he was rather slow this morning and he still outscored Max by five points.

Was Max on fire this morning? No, no he wasn't. But I didn't think he was so terrible that he should have scored under 80.

The quads are Max's strength. When they aren't going great, he doesn't have a lot to fall back on. Denis Ten, on the other hand, is stronger at other things more so than the quads. So when he misses the quad, there is more to fall back on with the spins and whatnot. He also got better 3A GOE than Max.

 

[snowflake]

Ridiculous how a clean Javi is only one point better in PCS than Uno with a fall and under rotated jumps

1.85 actually… and Shoma got 0.72 less than Javier in performance where falls are considered, right? Underrotaded jumps decrease tech points.

Sorry for the American boys. Sad especially for Max... Vincent is at the beginning of his journey. Anyway I think it’s great that they went for their quads. Every comp is a learning. As we have seen; jumping in practice is completely different from jumping in competition.

AND... most important is to nail them when it counts; at US nationals

 

[andromache]

Neither of the US men making a particularly strong case for themselves here, so far.

Shoma's SP is a masterpiece - my favorite singles program of the season, by far, and I've never been a Shoma uber. Shame not to see it skated to its potential.

JAVIIIIIIIIIII . I'm so glad to see him skate this well!! This SP is a great vehicle for him.

 

[Ender]

Anyone please help me a bit, I just want to look for Universal commentary of men SP, anyone has it? Thank you very much.

 

[GGFan]

I was really impressed with Javi's short program. Not only the jumps, but his posture for most of it and the attention to detail. I thought it would devolve into something corny but Javi really took his time and there were some nice moments where he stretched and really caressed the music. (his sit spins were my only issue)

ETA: I've never seen him look that gorgeous in terms of his poses and positions

 

[Tavi...]

I don't think you'll ever find a Max fan who has ever disagreed with the concept that Jason is a better basic skater than Max. The concept that I - and a lot of other Max fans - struggle with is that so many other skaters still seem to get given high marks when they fall or make errors, but as soon as Max makes an error, his score plummets like a stone in water.

Even just this morning there were two other skaters who fell who scored 80+ (leaving Uno out of this discussion for reasons). I could somewhat justify Kvitelashvili's scoring (though not sure I would have gone for 86) due to second quad but Ten's quad was underrotated and he didn't try a second and I thought he was rather slow this morning and he still outscored Max by five points.

Was Max on fire this morning? No, no he wasn't. But I didn't think he was so terrible that he should have scored under 80.

Unfortunately, Max made a lot of small errors that cost him quite a bit in GOE. That’s the biggest difference with China - his PCS was almost identical. But in case you didn’t listen to the Olympic Channel, Tracy Wilson said a lot of nice things, and was especially complimentary regarding his step sequence.

Regarding Denis, I have to disagree. He took a huge hit on the < 4S, but the rest of his program was really beautiful, both in quality of the elements and in the emotion he conveyed.

 

[yude]

Am I the only one who is not worried about Shoma at all (in a good way)? He will be fine in FS and also in GPF.

Congrats, Javi, for clean SP!

 

[rabbit1234]

Shoma seems to have a bad physical condition. FP's time is long, so he may not be able to go to the GPF.

 

[nekun]

One step closer to GPF ticket for Lord Samarin, yey~~

 

[Icey]

What a shock coming here to see the results?

 

[Interspectator]

Well done Javi, it's great to have him back to his usual form. :thumbsup:
Shoma showed his lack of time to get back to his usual stamina levels, but he did well considering the circumstances.

 

[Icey]

Athletes, Get your flu shot TODAY.

Javier was as near perfect as one can get today imo. Disappointed that the American men are so far down the list. All of these young men seem to have lost a bit of their youthful looks, undoubtedly, due to the stress and strain of a skater's life. The women probably would show that too if make-up weren't at their disposal.

 

[arewhyaen]

So happy for Javi. I hope he can keep it together for the LP. I'm not a biggest fan of the LP, in fact I kinda hate it, but I'm a huge fan of Javi. I believe that a true olympic-caliber program is his Guys and Doll program. He should go back to it.

 

[Alifyre]

Athletes, Get your flu shot TODAY.

Javier was as near perfect as one can get today imo. Disappointed that the American men are so far down the list. All of these young men seem to have lost a bit of their youthful looks, undoubtedly, due to the stress and strain of a skater's life. The women probably would show that too if make-up weren't at their disposal.

All I'm hearing here is more men should go the Adam Rippon route and wear makeup at competition (I think he looked quite lovely at NHK and he was definitely wearing makeup. He looked quite youthful for 28!).

And yes! Flu shots for everyone!