2017 GPF Ladies SP

[ks777]

The ability to press pause and use slow motion has given us an unprecedented number of sports experts in the 21st century. It's a technological marvel

I know right? It's always the same people too. over and over.

 

[Yatagarasu]

ok so one commentator. are you happy now?

https://youtu.be/QlbRG6p0Bz8?t=283

There's Shoma too.
I'll be happy when they get the calls for it, thank you for asking.

 

[ks777]

https://youtu.be/QlbRG6p0Bz8?t=283

There's Shoma too.
I'll be happy when they get the calls for it, thank you for asking.

good for you!! Hope your favorite Hanyu makes a quick recovery!!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The ability to press pause and use slow motion has given us an unprecedented number of sports experts in the 21st century. It's a technological marvel

I’ve had the pleasure of setting up cameras with skaters who compete and edit videos for them showing their jumps but also various angles of all aspects of their programs and elements. TBH though...my work has been the most helpful with analyzing spin positions. I have a few friends who coach and or compete still and they like my awesome editing

#21stCentury

 

[birdseye]

???

His pick is completely still until he leaves the ice.

His upper body is almost facing backwards before takeoff and the blade quickly follow before he leaves the ice. The best angle to see this on any lutz jump is from behind. It's less pronounced because he has a proper lutz technique and take more time on the back outside edge before rotating and leaving the ice, but it still happens non-the-less.I've worked with dartfish systems in the past and using Patrick Chan as an example (someone with arguably a perfect lutz technique) when you really break down the jump you see that even he has prerotation on the ice. It's subtle, but it's necessary for the jump to take place, without the prerotation, there is no potential energy for the second snap when the jump shifts to rotate over the right side ( or left if you jump clockwise).

I've said my peace as a former skater and coach on this matter and will no longer argue the physics of figure skating with "fans" who've never taught or learned the actual mechanics behind a figure skating jump. :cool14:

 

[ks777]

His upper body is almost facing backwards before takeoff and the blade quickly follow before he leaves the ice. The best angle to see this on any lutz jump is from behind. It's less pronounced because he has a proper lutz technique and take more time on the back outside edge before rotating and leaving the ice, but it still happens non-the-less.I've worked with dartfish systems in the past and using Patrick Chan as an example (someone with arguably a perfect lutz technique) when you really break down the jump you see that even he has prerotation on the ice. It's subtle, but it's necessary for the jump to take place, without the prerotation, there is no potential energy for the second snap when the jump shifts to rotate over the right side ( or left if you jump clockwise).

I've said my peace as a former skater and coach on this matter and will no longer argue the physics of figure skating with "fans" who've never taught or learned the actual mechanics behind a figure skating jump. :cool14:

Thank you for your thorough explanation!! Dartfish? I remember Patrick used to be coached by someone who specialized in Dartfish, I think? in Colorado..

 

[Yatagarasu]

I’ve had the pleasure of setting up cameras with skaters who compete and edit videos for them showing their jumps. I have a few friends who coach and or compete still and they like my awesome editing

#21stCentury

There is this guy who does that exact thing because the smaller rinks want him and they appreciate being able to see their skaters' jumps in such details so that they can work on their technique. He does an entire analysis of the jumps for them, it's quite useful.

21st century indeed. It's glorious.

 

[demarinis5]

I just finished watching the ladies. What a great SP competition, loved it. The ladies brought their A game.

Sheesh why is Shoma being discussed in this thread. hwell:

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I just checked the last page of this thread for the first time and I thought I clicked on the wrong link.

 

[anyanka]

I just checked the last page of this thread for the first time and I thought I clicked on the wrong link.

 

[GGFan]

I just finished watching the ladies. What a great SP competition, loved it. The ladies brought their A game.

Sheesh why is Shoma being discussed in this thread. hwell:

Crazy things start to happen when the Olympics are weeks away and someone has to stay home

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Everyone has said their piece regarding prerotation. Stick to talking about the Ladies Short Program of the GPF.

Please refer to the following in the Golden Skate Guidelines:

8. Respect the opinions of others
Arguments can’t be won. If you have a contrasting opinion, please state it simply and clearly. If necessary, agree to disagree with others who may have differing opinions. When discussions turn into long, hostile arguments, the thread will be closed or removed and instigators will be rewarded with an infraction.

16. Going off topic
Please try to stay on topic of threads. While we understand many discussions can lead to others, you can always start a new thread.

17. Excessive "bashing" of skaters
Everyone has their favorite and not-so-favorite skaters. Please be constructive with criticism. Persistent, repetitive, unrelenting and pugnacious denunciation of skaters is not welcome.

Consider this a blanket warning for this thread.

 

[Alex D]

You really have a lot of faith in the judges.
You can seriously watch that gif of Satoko's combo and say that there was no PR or UR there?

I don't think people should blame her for not getting her jumps called though, let's blame the tech panel instead.

I don´t want to judge anyones programs right now, but I feel that athletes always have the right to exploit the system, if it allows exploiting. You will not find a single skater, that does not do this. It can easily be seen how they do the Lutz, only very few show a clean outside edge prior to take off, too many just flip over shortly before taking off. You could argue that the skaters who show the clean edge, must be rewarded higher and the others given deducations, but it´s not happening.

It´s really not the skaters fault, but as you noted, the tech panel and judges who still give high GOE for "lesser textbook" elements.

I also never did any jump elements myself, like maybe 99% of the people here, so we surely are passionate, but also inexperineced in that matter. If I would ask a skater about this, I wouldn´t even know how to form my question, because for me this sport still has many unopened doors, things I do not understand properly and with all due respect, that lack of understanding is quite often the reason for "anger & toxicity" if it comes to talking skaters performances down.

In my opinion, the SP was based on protocols really good. I surely watch it tomorrow in the train and we should all congratulate the skaters for their great performances.

 

[hikki]

Wakaba was robbed!! It should've been:

1. Osmond -Great all round
2. Wakaba - Hello? Her speed? Attention to the change of tempo? She's fab! Her line is not great and her use of upper body is not as polished as Satoko. Spins could improve
   
3. Zagitova -Love her free, but she skates like a junior still.
4. Satoko -This program is one of the best ever. The step sequence to the drums is to die for. So polished. But < is <.
5. Maria - Everything is so lovely. Her noticeable lack of speed should be reflected in PCS.
6. Kostner - It makes me angry that 3t-2t and 3loop got highly as high TES as Mao's 3axel, 3f/3l, 3lz. Crolina is a legend though.

 

[LiamForeman]

Speaking of political choices, check out the 2005 Japan ladies results. Suguri won that year and went. Mao was 2nd but age-ineligible so stayed home, despite winning GPF. Shizuka was 3rd and got the next spot (and of course won the title). For the last spot, both #4 Yoshie Onda, and #5 Yukari Nakano, who were eligible, were both passed over in favour of Miki Ando, who was 6th(!!!) and got to go to Torino!!! Not to bash Miki but how did that happen? Thread going a bit sideways at the moment but that's another example of how political the choices are and what JSF prefers. (Let's not get into the 2014 US nationals ... )

I was so upset that Miki was chosen over Yukari Nakano for 2006. The belief among most was that Miki had so many sponsors and endorsements that JSF felt the need to destroy Yukari's Olympic dreams and put a subpar Miki on the team. At least karma was served when Miki bombed at the Olys and placed eighth or ninth.

 

[mirai4life]

https://imgur.com/a/dIcA1 - See Carolina's forward takeoff on a loop
https://imgur.com/a/zKF4Y - Midori Ito's forward takeoff on a lutz
https://imgur.com/a/p6Y3m - Irina Slustkaya's forward takeoff on a lutz

Everyone pre-rotates, just because you haven't noticed it, doesn't mean it didn;t happen. Satoko's is more accentuated because of her overall technique needs work. She hasn't discovered some secret underhanded way to use physics to her advantage and cheat her way to avoiding an under-rotation call because in fact, every skater completes about 180 degrees of rotation on the ice before the fully completed takeoff. If you watch closely on all jumps as the weight distribution shifts and the shoulders release to create torque, that the rotation will begin before leaving the ice. It's just how jumping works. Don't like it watch another sport (dirty little secret though prerotation exists in gymnastics too :shocked: ). If you're curious about what the 'pre-rotation' clause in the ISU manual was talking about, go watch one of kimmie Meissner's old 3-3 combos.You 'll notice that the momentum of the jump stops and she will literally step forward into the toeloop (thus a toe-axel).

i dont think the argument is who pro-rotates and who doesn't but how much prerotate should be allowed before being penalized. some pre-rotate more than others

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I actually liked how the SP was marked. Keeping skaters that close on PCS means that technical achievement is what will separate winners and losers. I hope we see that at the Olympics.

 

[Icey]

I find it puzzling that the tech callers apparently always get it wrong with Satoko? It makes me think the real reason some fans continually harp on her jumps is that they are small. The system doesn't punish small jumps.

A negative goe for small jumps (height/distance) can only be given if the height/distance is judged poor by the judge. Personally, I couldn't judge her's to be poor in that area. But if a judge were to do that, the negative goe she might be given for that might be cancelled out by other positives about her jumps.

 

[moriel]

A negative goe for small jumps (height/distance) can only be given if the height/distance is judged poor by the judge. Personally, I couldn't judge her's to be poor in that area. But if a judge were to do that, the negative goe she might be given for that might be cancelled out by other positives about her jumps.

I think the main issue is the near UR-ness of her jumps, really, not GOE per se.
Kinda same with Shoma - very meh but it doesnt get called for some reason

 

[j00mla]

You know, Alina is my favorite skater, I love her as strong as she was my niece. But this SP is not good enough ("thanks" to Daniil and Etery), it doesn't fit her as good as SP of 2016 did, and while performing this SP she looks totally uncomfortable. It makes me pain. Coaches are too aspired with tech score and forgot about the person :sad21: