2017 GPF Men's FS

[Icey]

Quads, quads, quads. I'm bored with all this talk about the quad. Bring on the QUINT!!!!!!

 

[Zora]

I am not happy with splatfests but honestly I would not like to see skaters not challenging themselves. E.g Voronov skates his two 4Ts LP for God knows how long, naturally it is easier for him to skate it clean. I understand he trains another quad 4Lo I think, lets see will he be so consistent when he adds it to his programs. Same goes for Adam & Jason who can't even manage consistently one.
The top guys really pushing the limits, so it is very hard to skate clean. Still I'd prefer this than to watch clean programs a la Misha Ge time and time over.
If you don't like falls go and watch galas, guys

I find it refreshing that Voronov attempts a program he knows he can actually manage.

 

[nekun]

Boot problem or injury aside, it's clear the pressure got to the top contenders. Chasing after someone will always be easier than enter the competition as the frontrunner. Ask that to Patrick, Javi and Yuzu.

The pressure at the top is so big, this was the biggest chance for the younger guys to proven them self but they blew it away.

I'm glad Nathan won this event tho. Undefeaded in GP sircuit but Javi beat him in Japan Open. And Shoma prove himself again that he can't handle the home court pressure.

 

[kresslia]

This competition makes me realize how lucky we have been to watch Patrick, Javier, and Hanyu battle it out all these years. Those men are great at the technical content (although Patrick has fallen behind now) AND the PERFORMANCE. I totally understand why men feel the need to just quad until they can't quad no more. The system rewards it. Can't blame them. But their performances simply cannot compare to these three and I'm not sure they ever will.

 

[draqq]

Why is Nathan always lean forward in his landings and tend to have very little flow out of his jumps even if he lands them straight?
A defect in his technique?

It's mainly how he's been taught to land jumps. It's been described as a very Russian technique, particularly where his arms are placed in his rotation in the air. This position makes it easier for him to rotate and land jumps, but as you said he doesn't get a lot of flow out of his jumps. It sacrifices flow-out for stability.

 

[birdseye]

I think nathan should drop back to a 4 quad program. He consistently does 4 quads with ease and I don't think he needs more than 4 to be competitive especially if two of those are quad lutzs. I think going clean at the olympics will be his best bet for a gold medal, especially if his competitors try to go out there and do programs they can't do with 5 or more quads.

 

[back2black]

It's mainly how he's been taught to land jumps. It's been described as a very Russian technique, particularly where his arms are placed in his rotation in the air. This position makes it easier for him to rotate and land jumps, but as you said he doesn't get a lot of flow out of his jumps. It sacrifices flow-out for stability.

it's not rotation,but his landing technique. he doesn't use much knee bending to help landing,which japanese skaters are famous for

however in the long run, we still yet to see the effect of both technique.Japanese are prone to knee injury the longer they perform difficult jumps.

long flow-out like Shoma is overrated IMO,because it actually interrupts the flow of programs and to me it's not the case he has enough margin rather more often than not his f jump doesn't land perfectly. Shoma's t/f jump techique are widely-acknowledged among the worse out here

leaning forword more often occurs in nathan 4f than the rest which could mean he is not there yet like his 4lz and when his 4lz works it's just fine as it is.

 

[draqq]

Y'all with your selective memory. It was a splatfest before Chan/Hanyu/Fernandez, it was a splatfest during Chan/Hanyu/Fernandez, and it'll be a splatfest after them. Ice is slippery and people will fall. I think it's exciting that the sport is being taken to new levels, and it's only a matter of time before the consistency and artistry catches up to the content.

In a way you're right. The men's event has pretty much always been about who can land the jumping passes cleanly. I would say, though, that in this Olympic season thus far I can't really think of many mens free skates, if any, that include a quad and have had all of its jump passes be fully rotated and clean. All I've got that come close are Voronov at NHK Trophy (if we dismiss his bobble on the second 4T) and Max Aaron at Cup of China (if we dismiss some of the small negative GOEs on his jumps). Is that it?

The main point is none of the top men have had clean performances yet or are injured mainly due to their attempts on quads. The incentives for doing quads in the system as it currently stands is that it rewards risk. A fall on a fully rotated quad lutz is worth 8.6 points after the -3 GOE and -1 mandatory deduction. That's more than a +3 GOE triple lutz which would be worth 8.1. So for someone like Mikhail Kolyada, it's still worth doing the quad lutz even if he falls on it about 80% of the time.

It's a gambling game; and if you lose, you can still win and often do.

 

[slider11]

My take on this GPF Men's Free Skate

Rippon: Decent showing but did not emote as he did in Skate America. I don't think judge panel was so keen on his cheeky SP and he was a bit reserved in the Free. Jumps were ok but I didn't feel the freedom found in prior skates. If he can live with falling on the 4Lutz then I'd keep it but if it disrupts the performance for him maybe he should substitute a triple triple and focus on that. The judges were rough on him in this event with a 168.

Brown: Disappointing. He's going to have to get those triples in a better place if he wants to make the US Olympic team. Love the SP. The LP has potential and certainly beautiful artistry but there has to be content.

Voronov: What a jumper - and I mean that with all sincerity. But that over the top Russian -fight -song music is tiresome. And watching him skate in circles, preparing for jumps is equally tiresome. But I admire his determination to make the Olympcis. In whatever capacity that means.

Kolyada: Great skater with a great future. I'm not sure Elvis is Olympic material. Great show program.

Chen: What's up, Nathan? Blades? Injury? Nerves? Those jumps were not pretty. Too much focus on quad mania? I couldn't get into the emerging artistry with all the physical challenges.

Uno: What a fighter! He almost won it. Again, too much focus on quads? I love his attack and attention to the music.

I think the podium was correct but not the exact podium we'll see in February at the Olympics.

 

[draqq]

it's not rotation,but his landing technique. he doesn't use much knee bending to help landing,which japanese skaters are famous for

however in the long run, we still yet to see the effect of both technique.Japanese are prone to knee injury the longer they perform difficult jumps.

long flow-out like Shoma is overrated IMO,because it actually interrupts the flow of programs and to me it's not the case he has enough margin rather more often than not his f jump doesn't land perfectly. Shoma's t/f jump techique are widely-acknowledged among the worse out here

leaning forword more often occurs in nathan 4f than the rest which could mean he is not there yet like his 4lz and when his 4lz works it's just fine as it is.

It's a bit of both. He does have a fairly stiff knee when he lands as you point out. His lower center of gravity in his rotation also makes it more difficult to generate a deep curve with his arms as he opens on the landing, as you can see with most of his triple jumps. He also tends to jump more straight up and down, versus a more aggressively tilted angle like Shoma and Hanyu (particularly on the 3A). The reason his quad lutz tends to have a good ride-out is because of the power and speed needed to do the jump in the first place, but that's fine because he's the master of that jump at this point.

 

[Heleng]

Dreadful...lackluster...mistake-riddled...congrats on your medal

Oh my god...a SEASONS BEST? I'm going to puke

May I suggest that, for your health and well being, you should just skip watching Mikhail's performances in the future.

 

[WeakAnkles]

long flow-out like Shoma is overrated IMO,because it actually interrupts the flow of programs

It doesn't have to if you incorporate that long flow-out into the choreography. I don't think anyone ever said of Michelle Kwan's jumps (which oh so often featured a long flow-out as part of both the jump and the choreography), Oh for heaven's sake, dear, get on with it.


Just sayin'...

 

[yude]

Oda's comments watching replay of Nathan's FS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1qozaNzAU

Oda: With such a difficult layout of the program, it must have been very hard for him not to loose the concentration until the end, but choreo sequence in the latter half was very beautiful with the speed.

Shindo (TV asahi): Not only the jumps, he has expressiveness and movements that he had earned from learning the gymnastics and ballet. This is the first quad in the program.

O: It was perfect.

S: BV of 17.90 and +GOE is going to be added.

O: Yes. He fully rotated it, it was great. Next 4F, he fully rotated it but lost the balance slightly, it will get -GOE. This 4S, he was struggling with it in the practice a little, and here he also looked too focused on his left foot when he took off. But his steps, expression, or choreo sequence I said earlier, those areas have been getting more awesome as the season goes through in each year.

S: He debuted in Senior last year and run up so quickly to the Silver medalist of GPF in the same year. He also became American national champion and this is the second season for him. This is in the latter half, isn't it? (watching 4T1Lo2S)

O: Yes, I really think it is great he can excute quad(s) in the latter half like this. However, when we look at PCS, he has a little longer preparation time (move) because of multiple quads. He tried nearly 6 quads in total, so in the area of preparation, I wonder how the judges will grade it in Transition or Performance of PCS, that is going to be important.

 

[friedbanana]

I'm still choosing to believe the men are saving their best for Pyeongchang, but my confidence is definitely faltering looool

 

[yude]

Oda's comments watching replay of Shoma's FS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRj8oA6zqRI

Oda: He was saying he wanted to challenge 4S in this GPF, it was awesome he landed it decently. He could succeed in it on this big stage although the jump was not what he had been doing through this season, I think it was because he has strong mentality.

Shindo (TV asahi): In this Olympic season, he came to this GPF thinking of trying to do for the first time so called "ideal layout of the program" which is really difficult.

Oda: The thing I'm concerned is that when he failed in the jumps, there were underrotated jumps. I wonder how many of them are going to be as UR. This is 4Lo as the first jump...well, this is a little underrotated so the points will be deducted from BV. This 4S, the speed he had before the jump was great.

S: GOE on the clean jumps, spins and steps, how will each of them affect the result?

O: Right.

S: If he has PB score here, he will be able to win over (Nathan) with much higher score in total. But it is not certain in this situation. Somehow I felt his pressure in this FS.

O: This 4F is also slightly underrotated, I wonder how the judges will evaluate this, he had to fight a bit (on the landing). This is the first quad in the latter half, 4T, this also looks two footed and underrotated. It is iffy how far they will call. This jump (the second 4T) is more than half rotation short, it is going to be downgraded and taken as a triple.

S: In the case of downgraded to triple, BV will be lowered more than 6 points all at once.

O: Yes. However, he really fought on this 3 consecutive jump (3A1Lo3F) during the hard time (of the performance), it was wonderful.

S: And this is Cantilever, his synonym that he has kept showing for 3 years in Senior.

 

[Jaana]

I really like watching clean jumps. And men. What should I watch? Because galas don't cut it when it comes to jump content.

Fernandez 2016 WC winning freeskate with three quads plus all the other jumps faultless, too, several broadcasts on youtube to choose from....

 

[yude]

Oda's comments watching replay of Kolyada's FS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VOncLIhQVo

Oda: This is 4Lz, he fully rotated and had height but it will get -3 GOE, but it will be deducted from BV of 13.60.

Shindo (TV asahi): He is one of the skaters who has been showing various attractive sides through this season.

O: He landed 4Lz in 6 minutes warm up, so I guess he is thinking now he really wanted to land it (in the actual performance).

S: (explains the score of Nathan and Shoma, etc)


Oda's comments watching replay of Voronov's FS (sorry, I couldn't find the link)


Shindo (TV asahi): He was born in 1987, the same year as Oda san, and he is 30 years old.

Oda: This is the first quad, his jumps have height, so if he lands them beautifully, he gets +2 or +3 GOE. He is a great jumper. This combo was really good.

Shindo: This 3A, too.

Oda: A lot of height. +1 is not enough, I want to give him +2 GOE. 4T, this is the only part he will get -GOE in all elements today, it was two footed and he had a overturn, I think there will be small deduction of -2 GOE. As for PCS, in Performance, he had really good appealing points (in his performance).

 

[Jaana]

I thought it was a great pleasure to watch Voronov´s freeskate and he was glowing from happiness already before he started to skate... Wonderful to watch really genuine joy!!!

 

[Sugarpova]

Still crying over beauty that was Sergei's FS:hap93:

He was the bestest

 

[ancientpeas]

Still crying over beauty that was Sergei's FS:hap93:

He was the bestest

above your door? Are you in love and always will be?