2017 NHK Trophy Pre-event Chat

[LaArdilla]

Didier and Muriel Zazoui (P/C coach at the time) were not getting along. They were based in Lyon. All of a sudden, he decides to get rid off the title "pôle France" in Lyon (the place were all the good ice dancers go to be coached), which means no more funding from the federation. Instead, the skaters official club becomes Paris. They all refused for good reasons to move there.
During the French championships, P/C came 2nd (after P/B). The other team (Caron/Jones) was at another competition, but against P/C let's face it, they wouldn't stand a chance (they were not really good...). There were no discussion however on who will go to Sochi, it was predetermined. And since the 2 couldn't get along, he was not going to give Zazoui the pleasure to go.

No more funding = no more money to accompany your skaters at official events. When Pechalat/Bourzat decided not to go to Euros, P/C were chosen instead. But Zazoui had to pay for her trip in Budapest herself (there was no way she would let them go alone) because the federation didn't want to pay for her.

Romain Haguenauer was employed by the Ministry of Sport so that's where he gets his money. Not Zazoui (she was working for her own account and she never received money from the fed). But the tensions were huge. So P/C went to Marie-France with Romain in June I think only to choregraph their Mozart FD for the next year. MF and Patrice offered Romain the opportunity to work with them (he already coached them with Zazoui so they trusted him) and that was a good opportunity for him to leave this mess. P/C often said that they trust Romain (almost) blindly. He told them to follow him if they wanted to, and in a matter of weeks (or even days I think) they moved out.
(EDIT : sorry for the long post, but don't let me hijack this thread haha)

Nothing to be sorry about, it was so interesting! Thank you! But why on earth wouldn’t Didier get along with Zazoui? She had been producing the best French ice dancers (and coached Marie-France and Patrice) for ages! He must have changed his time though, he was all to happy posing for photographs with P/C at COC. So who pays for their training in Montreal?

 

[magicrider]

No Manners

We'll see. This is a situation I don't really like but at least he is not the TS. I don't want a Canadian TS/TC for P/C either.
However, I didn't like the fact that the TS for Skate Canada was Canadian and the TC American. The calls I think were very correct in the Free Dance (for V/M at least...), but it can go either way for the SD about the Partial step sequence (3 or 4).
F
I'm difficult and that's almost mpossible, but at GPF and Olys, I don't want France/Canada/US/Russia/Italy for TS. Or a whole NA block or European Block. I want balance, and a neutral country too.
The absolut worst case scenario for all the skaters is Ponomarenko as TS. Horrible calls at Euros 2017 (with the TC being Italian), and might favour Igor's team too much.

Anyway, I'm hoping for good judging and good calls this weekend. I'm confident.

to be honest, when haven't they been 'in a tough spot' since returning to competition?

Them announcing return to competition - they are no longer relevant and fit into Ice Dance present state, Tessa is fat, Scott is out of shape, they have no longer goods, skills to compete, they have no chance to succeed, please retire for good and so on.

Their programs last season - a lot of voices like 'SD is too OTT, tacky, tasteless, clown-ish, their costumes are the worst, no elegance, no sophistication', 'FD is a rip off from French team, they are bad copyists of their style, they have no skill to do such theme/music, they look heavy, Sam Smith is evil, it's caricature, it's heavy'.

Their results - inflated, not justified, overscored, they stole World title, they cheated, they did not deserve places and high marks.

Generally, they every move, every step - especially a wrong move, any wobble or misstep - are not only condemned by a lot of people, but put in the perspective of their competitors, instead of their own. So this is not a surprise that they have it 'tough', despite the exterior. And for me, if any team is started to be viewed by technical panel nationalities judging competition they are participating in, it's no longer even 'tough' - it's just plain bad. But that's the reality.

I hope that Tessa and Scott will be able to do their best regardless of any circumstances AND then criticize/evaluate what they've done along with their team only for their own good.[/QUOTE


I’m sorry, but I find your comments childish and rude. No team deserves to be entirely condemned by negative comments. Your placatory final paragraph only shows that you, yourself, realize that your vitriol was excessive.

 

[Anyasnake]

Nothing to be sorry about, it was so interesting! Thank you! But why on earth wouldn’t Didier get along with Zazoui? She had been producing the best French ice dancers (and coached Marie-France and Patrice) for ages! He must have changed his time though, he was all to happy posing for photographs with P/C at COC. So who pays for their training in Montreal?

He wanted to move everyone and everything to Paris for what I would believe, financial reasons, and money and this part I can't tell. Zazoui said no, but he got pissed. But like you said, she had so may great results so you could think that money (maybe a lot) was involved.
I know thanks to several interviews that P/C had to produce good results if they wanted the federation to pay for their training. That seems a bit obvious to some, but there aren't as many teams in France as in the U.S for example. Thankfully they managed to do so (they had to do top 10, that was their goal... we all know how that turned out )
And now Didier is happily posing with them, writing about them on twitter and facebook... (although the French skaters don't necessarily seem happy to pose with him haha)
I'm guessing the fed pays for everything now : training fees, choreographers, etc. They don't have to worry anymore.

 

[ChanClan]

to be honest, when haven't they been 'in a tough spot' since returning to competition?

Them announcing return to competition - they are no longer relevant and fit into Ice Dance present state, Tessa is fat, Scott is out of shape, they have no longer goods, skills to compete, they have no chance to succeed, please retire for good and so on.

Their programs last season - a lot of voices like 'SD is too OTT, tacky, tasteless, clown-ish, their costumes are the worst, no elegance, no sophistication', 'FD is a rip off from French team, they are bad copyists of their style, they have no skill to do such theme/music, they look heavy, Sam Smith is evil, it's caricature, it's heavy'.

Their results - inflated, not justified, overscored, they stole World title, they cheated, they did not deserve places and high marks.

Generally, they every move, every step - especially a wrong move, any wobble or misstep - are not only condemned by a lot of people, but put in the perspective of their competitors, instead of their own. So this is not a surprise that they have it 'tough', despite the exterior. And for me, if any team is started to be viewed by technical panel nationalities judging competition they are participating in, it's no longer even 'tough' - it's just plain bad. But that's the reality.

I hope that Tessa and Scott will be able to do their best regardless of any circumstances AND then criticize/evaluate what they've done along with their team only for their own good.

Well that was rude. How about we not comment on the physique of professional athletes who, contrary to what you think, are not fat!

 

[Anyasnake]

Well that was rude. How about we not comment on the physique of professional athletes who, contrary to what you think, are not fat!

You missed the point completely !! NoNameFace was just repeating other people's critics and very rude comment (and untrue) ! No way he/she would have insulted them !!
Next time NoNameFace just "quote" the bad comments It almost look like you're insulting them hahaha (thankfully I'm used to seeing your comments so I understood right away).

 

[ChanClan]

You missed the point completely !! NoNameFace was just repeating other people's critics and very rude comment (and untrue) ! No way he/she would have insulted them !!
Next time NoNameFace just "quote" the bad comments It almost look like you're insulting them hahaha (thankfully I'm used to seeing your comments so I understood right away).

ooooooh... ok, after your explanation, I read it again and now understand that they were saying that those were the things said about VM by others. Sorry NoNameFace!

 

[NoNameFace]

I’m sorry, but I find your comments childish and rude. No team deserves to be entirely condemned by negative comments. Your placatory final paragraph only shows that you, yourself, realize that your vitriol was excessive.

Well that was rude. How about we not comment on the physique of professional athletes who, contrary to what you think, are not fat!

magicrider and ChanClan - apologies for making you jumpy about my post, I'm used to be my ironic self about all unjustified critiques expressed towards any skaters, so I skipped quotas on the first part of my post, looks like I should not have forget about them. I'll edit my post accordingly. Believe me - last thing I'd like to do is to insult Tessa and Scott, I have too much respect for them and admiration for their work to criticize them in any manner, especially regarding physiques (Tessa has definitely killer body of which I can only dream). Post intended to show that their every step, decision, move done since retuning to competition is getting them critique and they really 'have it tough' regardless of TS/TC/ATS nationality in competition they're in.

You missed the point completely !! NoNameFace was just repeating other people's critics and very rude comment (and untrue) ! No way he/she would have insulted them !!
Next time NoNameFace just "quote" the bad comments It almost look like you're insulting them hahaha (thankfully I'm used to seeing your comments so I understood right away).

Anyasnake - thanks a lot for the rescue, good to see that not everyone thought I deserve a ban for no manners

 

[Anyasnake]

Anyasnake - thank a lot for the rescue, good to see that not everyone thought I deserve a ban for no manners

Don't worry I know what you post on the forum. You have nothing but constructive criticisms, respect and optimism for the skaters.

 

[4everchan]

i know some people are worried about Molina... i couldn't care less... V/M, if they skate well, should win that event tech panel being mean or not... and personally, I don't care about season's best and those high scores... they are not relevant... what is relevant is who scores the highest at worlds or olympics.

Let's go V/M !

 

[NoNameFace]

Don't worry I know what you post on the forum. You have nothing but constructive criticisms, respect and optimism for the skaters.

thanks a lot again! I try my best to allow Ice Dance get the best of me, not to take out the worst of it there. Like probably everyone interested, I have my personal preferences towards programs, performances, ways of expression, but what is my all-time, universal goal is to promote Ice Dance culture as a place of a great experience and place to get inspired. There is just too much of a good stuff to appreciate out there in probably every team, it would be a pity for me to pass on that

 

[NoNameFace]

i know some people are worried about Molina... i couldn't care less... V/M, if they skate well, should win that event tech panel being mean or not... and personally, I don't care about season's best and those high scores... they are not relevant... what is relevant is who scores the highest at worlds or olympics.

Let's go V/M !

priorities first - I love that new avatar! It's the bomb, captures the emotion, optimism and cheeky vibe

I think that scores, levels may be important to spark that discussions about politicks going around Ice Dance, who are judging who, what team is leading into Olympics etc., yet I try to look at Tessa/Scott's performances in terms of having more and more build/integrity and more impact, focus given. If they will show that they want this and are willing to give what they have the best, this is what matters, because they simply could not be even still in competition or showing an attitude of constant complaining about 'how badly treated they are by judges' and so on.

 

[Kittosuni]

The skaters should be there now right? because tomorrow is the official practice

 

[4everchan]

priorities first - I love that new avatar! It's the bomb, captures the emotion, optimism and cheeky vibe

gotta share love around especially right now... but I just had the idea about the avatar... blueberryhill is the maker she should open an avatar business on GS LOL she'd be wealthy!

 

[icekiwi]

Oh my..........I just realised how lucky the NHK audience are. They are seeing Olympic Gold medalists in every event here (in my opinion and my personal pick for the Olympic Golds):

Ladies - Evegenia Medvedeva, with Alina Zagitova second.
Men - Yuzuru Hanyu, a clean Hanyu beats everyone, otherwise Shoma Uno
Pairs - Sui and Han hands down, their skating skills is insane, getting better every year
Dance - Tessa and Scott, they are skating better than when they won Gold 8 years ago. Let's be honest, their basic skating skills is superior to the French. Between Gabriela and Tessa, I know who is superior, even between Scott and Gualime, Scott is much smoother on the edges.

I am so jealous of those who will be watching NHK this year live, please remember to do lots of live event posting, thanking everyone in advance !!!!

 

[icedance]

The skaters should be there now right? because tomorrow is the official practice

Not everybody arrived yet.

 

[Anyasnake]

A quick reminder that the Ice Dance competition starts Saturday (Japan time) and not Friday !

 

[Leonardo]

Dance - Tessa and Scott, they are skating better than when they won Gold 8 years ago. Let's be honest, their basic skating skills is superior to the French. Between Gabriela and Tessa

Yes, they are better than they were 8 years ago. But superior to p/c? I'm not so sure...Nor the judges, nor the audience, nor a major part of the fans...p/c are THAT talented

 

[NoNameFace]

Yes, they are better than they were 8 years ago. But superior to p/c? I'm not so sure...Nor the judges, nor the audience, nor a major part of the fans...p/c are THAT talented

For me, the 'baseline' is that both teams are extremely talented and gifted in various Ice Dance areas, but the way this talent is exploited, how it is 'utilized' in actual material is quite different and gather its enthusiasts and critics. With Papadakis/Cizeron, the thing is that their obvious talent and potential had to find a right way to channel to reach so many people and touch them not only by skating itself, but also with the feeling it express; since their move to Montreal, my feel is that they became more 'free' and defined in terms of their style, aesthetic, they refined, polished their skill and technique, made their expression more sound and resonating within audiences and fitting to the programs, music; their talent got more prominent, richer, more impactful and got exchanged into such big success worldwide. And their move to Montreal was basically at the same time as Tessa/Scott departure from competition post-Sochi Olympics - people naturally got interested, absorbed with this novelty of Gabriella/Guillaume presented: classical music, contemporary stuff was already done in the past, but they introduced some kind of new dimension to this, based on so much flow and continuity of movement. And they are now a top team, one of most talked, appreciated teams since then. With Tessa and Scott return, they introduced for me a kind of different dynamic and 'reminded' that there is a talent and quality in them; this return - combined with this already established position of French team, associated with 'role model' style and expression - caused a bit of a shift in people's perception in how the ideal, the best Ice Dance stuff should look like, as Canadians are for me nothing like French team, except for tremendous talent, skill, individuality and presence/impact on ice, hence all comparison, 'biding' between both teams who excels in what and why.

I'm going to stay on my fence and appreciate talent of both and performances that are capable of moving me in equal measure, all sourced from dedication to what they do

 

[JustMe]

Are Virtue & Moir better ice dancers than Papadakis & Cizeron? Depends on your squinting skills and whom you're rooting for, lol!
So go ahead, and root for your favorites, but if you're trying to pass off opinions as facts to justify why your favorites should score this and/or win that competition by these many points, expect to be called out on it.
Should Virtue & Moir break 200 points here? Answer: let's wait and see how they execute their elements and how they perform/interpret their programs.
Will Papadakis & Cizeron break 200 points again next week? See above.

 

[danse]

Are Virtue & Moir better ice dancers than Papadakis & Cizeron? Depends on your squinting skills and whom you're rooting for, lol!
So go ahead, and root for your favorites, but if you're trying to pass off opinions as facts to justify why your favorites should score this and/or win that competition by these many points, expect to be called out on it.
Should Virtue & Moir break 200 points here? Answer: let's wait and see how they execute their elements and how they perform/interpret their programs.
Will Papadakis & Cizeron break 200 points again next week? See above.

Best response I've read on any of these threads.

I'm just grateful that we have COMPETITION to look forward to. We have at least ten phenomenal dance teams out there right now, and while there may be a 2-way battle for Gold and Silver in 2018, there will be an epic battle for bronze. Being a fan of ice dancing is hard sometimes - we have the uber-fan battles and the inability to equally like multiple dance teams. There is no doubt that P/C & V/M are some of the of most talented dance teams we've ever seen. I just hope that everyone skates well in their respective competitions (Go V&M in Japan! Go P&C in France!) and EARNS their scores.