2017 Ondrej Nepela Trophy Ladies FS

[pearly]

I think that's one of the reasons they created the 10% bonus, to encourage skaters to not "frontload", to make programs more balanced.
But it seems it backfired.

Perhaps the next step will be to limit the number of jumps/combinations that will be credited. 1-2 for SP and 4 for FS?

 

[ancientpeas]

I think backloaded programs should take a hit the way frontloaded ones did. They aren't balanced and that's one of the criteria. It feels like pointwho**** to me. I would just limit the amount of times you can access the bonus (say 4) and that would eliminate this problem and encouraged more balanced programs.

And while we are at it why do pairs not get the bonus? Probably because they know it would create weird programs with all the jump elements in the second half and all the lifts in the front.

That said I still think Evgenia is the favourite to win Olympic gold and you really have to marvel at her consistency.

 

[solani]

I think backloaded programs should take a hit the way frontloaded ones did. They aren't balanced and that's one of the criteria. It feels like pointwho**** to me. I would just limit the amount of times you can access the bonus (say 4) and that would eliminate this problem and encouraged more balanced programs.

And while we are at it why do pairs not get the bonus? Probably because they know it would create weird programs with all the jump elements in the second half and all the lifts in the front.

That said I still think Evgenia is the favourite to win Olympic gold and you really have to marvel at her consistency.

I think that pairs don't get the bonus because lifts are very hard and tough as well. At least for the guy. It's true that most teams do the single jumps at the beginning of the programs but throws often happen later. So pairs programs are comparatively well balanced imo.

 

[Zora]

I thought the FS music for both Rika and Wakaba is very distracting. But they do skate well to it. I think Wakaba is a strong contender for team Japan.

Medvedeva's FS music is just gorgeus and thank god, no effects, no voices, no nothing. But the program has a very similar style. Med's senior body of work is very one dimensional, so far. She has a specific style and sticks to it. I can't even imagine her doing something different. But I hope the time will come when she'll show some other facet of hers.

Well for me, it's Evgenia's music that I don't like for skating. In her step sequence there are only a few notes she has to hit, otherwise she can do whatever she wants to that music, because there isn't much she can interpret. In the music she uses for the second part of the program there is even less to interpret, beside the very short highlight she hits with her 3S-3T. So once again, she can do whatever she wants as long as it looks nice. I prefer music that requires more interpretation, like this program. But that all comes down to personal preference.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Medvedeva should have keep her 2-5 layout and change the combo into 3F3Lo. Then 3lz2T2lo.

She should leave the lutz as is, in case she gets an edge call, and apply the 2T-2L to a consistent jump to get guaranteed GOE/points. If she got an edge call, then the deduction would be applied to the 2T 2L as well.

I haven't seen the video of her 3F+3L, but if she's capable of it and doing it with reliable rotation, then it's worth considering. It's very risky, though. It's less than a point extra, and if she gets nailed with a UR (as loop combos often do), then that would lose way more than a point (again, the UR < would result in reduced GOE, which would also be applied to the 3F earlier in the combo).

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I think that's one of the reasons they created the 10% bonus, to encourage skaters to not "frontload", to make programs more balanced.
But it seems it backfired.



I thought so too.
But I'll believe the judges did their jobs correctly!

Yes, that's exactly why they created the bonus but surely they had not intended such lopsided programs jumpswise.

 

[ancientpeas]

I think that pairs don't get the bonus because lifts are very hard and tough as well. At least for the guy. It's true that most teams do the single jumps at the beginning of the programs but throws often happen later. So pairs programs are comparatively well balanced imo.

yes.. that is what I meant.
I'm okay with providing some bonus for doing some jumps in the later half but they have to ding them if the program is unbalanced, imo.

Having said that I would provide bonuses to any team that didn't start with the twist and end with the spins because honestly the layout of some pairs programs is totally predictable and cookie cutter.

 

[artsciboy]

Given how challenging last season was for Rika, its so nice to see her back in form in both the SP and the FS. Some underrotations and a fall on the loop in the FS, but I was quite taken by how interesting and intricate the "Frida" choreography was. The program also manages to downplay her weak posture and it works. If Rika can hit all of her jumps, I wouldn't count her out of the running for the Olympics - and this coming from someone who isn't necessarily the biggest Rika fan. Lots of talented Japanese ladies, but many of them blend into the other with their style and programs. Rika knows she can't compete with that pretty princess thing and has gone a whole different route, which could work wonders for her.

 

[whatif]

This was a very tough tech panel across the board. They are like 50% factor in who wins these days. So watch out for that in Korea.

The camera was awful.

I am feeling the pressure is starting to show in Medvedeva's skating. Something is missing from before.
I am thinking that Olympic gold is not as sealed as we all expect. Her BV is low hence she can not make any mistakes when you are squared against someone who is mini-you when it comes to consistency but with a tougher arsenal.

In Olympic year, PCS/2nd mark won't save you. Just ask Yuna Kim or Michelle Kwan.

Hmmm...intrigue....

 

[artsciboy]

This was a very tough tech panel across the board. They are like 50% factor in who wins these days. So watch out for that in Korea.

The camera was awful.

I am feeling the pressure is starting to show in Medvedeva's skating. Something is missing from before.
I am thinking that Olympic gold is not as sealed as we all expect. Her BV is low hence she can not make any mistakes when you are squared against someone who is mini-you when it comes to consistency but with a tougher arsenal.

In Olympic year, PCS/2nd mark won't save you. Just ask Yuna Kim or Michelle Kwan.

Hmmm...intrigue....

I agree that Evgenia is looking more nervous than usual. But I don't understand why everyone talks about how Evgenia and other ladies should be quaking in their boots in terms of Alina Zagitova's technical content. Sure Alina backloads a bit more than others, but ALL of the top ladies are doing 7 triple jumps plus 2 double axels. Yes, every little bit helps hence the backloading being helpful, but its not insurmountable with higher PCS scores. If Alina gets a quad or a 3axel, let the other top ladies quiver then. Until then, Alina's real strength is not her technical content, but her consistency and youth (i.e., less fear, etc.).

Really, at this stage given that all of the ladies have similar tech content, it comes down to who delivers with clean edges and no underrotations with good programs. For the last couple of seasons, Ashley Wagner's BV was technically higher than Evgenia's in the FS (provided Ashley gets her levels and doesn't underrotate) - but Evgenia has won on consistency. She can do it again, but so can other ladies from Ashley to Gabby to Kaetlyn, etc. and so long as the judges actually reward people for what they put out rather than based on reputation.

 

[Ender]

I disagree. Going into the Olympic season as a two time World Champ, unbeaten for quite a while is great. Consistency is important, the judges count on her to deliver. That's why I think the tech panels overlooked that lutz edge all season. If she lands it clean, with a tano or a rippon arm variation I'm sure the tech panels are going to overlook that edge again. She only has a problem if she gives them reason to review the jump.
I'm pretty sure she'll win that Olympic gold if she's able to deliver two clean performances. She probably shouldn't work on the lutz edge, that would probably only unnerve her. I think she should get that edge call but it shouldn't really matter to her. I don't think that those 3 points are going to make a difference in the end.

I am not sure it's that great. Changing layout this season gives her more trouble I am afraid. She should have changed the layout last season, not this season. It's not advisable to do dramatic change in Olympic season.
I agree it's too late to fix her lutz. But also I think it's not a good move to change to 1-6 layout right now. She should just do the same 2-5 layout as before and upgrade it by doing 3F3Lo, then 3F2T2Lo. Her lutz should be in the first half of the program.

 

[lanark]

Well for me, it's Evgenia's music that I don't like for skating. In her step sequence there are only a few notes she has to hit, otherwise she can do whatever she wants to that music, because there isn't much she can interpret. In the music she uses for the second part of the program there is even less to interpret, beside the very short highlight she hits with her 3S-3T. So once again, she can do whatever she wants as long as it looks nice. I prefer music that requires more interpretation, like this program. But that all comes down to personal preference.

Yes, I agree with you.

It's not very rhythmic, there's not much complexity to it. I just said it was beautiful, not that it was a great option.
I mean, it is great for her, as I said, it suits her style. But she can indeed do whatevers. And that's why I love the beginning. That was actually good choreography, imo. The opening is just gorgeous. And the end too. Because it is the same as the opening. With those few piano notes that she has to hit. And then she does the open mouth thing, the same expression/acting thing that we've been seeing since forever. But this time it actually feels like it makes sense, like it had a purpose.

But anyway, her overall interpretation skills and the scores she gets for it is something that I won't even comment about... Otherwise her diehard fans will eat me alive. ;D

 

[snd]

Rika, along with Wakaba Higuchi, has one of my favorite free programs so far this season! Good to see her back in form, but it's sad she won't be able to go to the Olympics or Worlds.
This is the kind of program I would have loved for Evgenia to try. I understand why they chose something similar to her previous programs, but I hope after the Olympic season she can start to experiment a bit with different music styles as well.

same here. rika needs better flow out of her jumps and her spins are too slow, though... wakaba, otoh, just needs the judges to give her the 9.5-10pcs that she deserves.

that being said, i like evgenia's lp. it's much better than the anti-chopin violin nightmare they call her sp.

radionova is a fighter for sure but there is no way for her to make it to the olys or worlds. no way.

 

[randomfan]

A better SP would have done the trick as well. I think the 3Lz-3T is the right path, for any top lady.

Dabin is facing boot problems, so she took it easy with her layout.

 

[solani]

I am not sure it's that great. Changing layout this season gives her more trouble I am afraid. She should have changed the layout last season, not this season. It's not advisable to do dramatic change in Olympic season.
I agree it's too late to fix her lutz. But also I think it's not a good move to change to 1-6 layout right now. She should just do the same 2-5 layout as before and upgrade it by doing 3F3Lo, then 3F2T2Lo. Her lutz should be in the first half of the program.

Not that great? I thought she had basically the best two non-Olympic seasons a lady ever had ...
I'm glad that she changed her layout a little bit, that she changed something in her FS. I wasn't fond of that 2A-2T-2T, 3F-2T-2T is better imo, 3F-2T-2L would be even better. She's playing it safe with her music selections / programs anyway. But a 3F-3L is certainly too much. It's not worth the risk for her. You seem to think that doing those difficult combos is easy ... she can obviously do it in training but she probably can't do it in a program full of transitions / difficult steps. At least not with the level of consistency she needs. Don't forget that she's older that Zagitova (and we don't know wether Zagitova will be able to do this combos in 1 or 2 years ...). She has to be smart and she shouldn't risk an injury in any case.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I think it is very clear too.

So the dillema remains: will Medvedeva fix her flutz in time for the Olympics?
And will she get calls if she doesn't?

Somehow I feel that with the huge record breaking scores they are throwing out to Evgenia, a little flutz call will hardly make a blip on the radar for her at the Games! I believe she can even have a fall and she'll likely still win the gold!

 

[whatif]

Somehow I feel that with the huge record breaking scores they are throwing out to Evgenia, a little flutz call will hardly make a blip on the radar for her at the Games! I believe she can even have a fall and she'll likely still win the gold!

Yes, that's what they always think.....and then..... Adelinas and Taras come along.

 

[tars]

Do you agree with Radionova's 64 PCS over Choi's 59? :think:

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Yes, that's what they always think.....and then..... Adelinas and Taras come along.

So do skaters like Yamaguchi who won Olympic gold with a fall. Just depends on the judges at the Games. And I happen to believe Kristi, Tara, and Adelina all deserved their respective Olympic golds btw. As for Evgenia, I think the SP will tell. If she has a huge lead after that segment then it's game over imo. If she's close to her nearest top competitors- like Kim was in 2014 after the SP - then it's game on.

 

[whatif]

So do skaters like Yamaguchi who won Olympic gold with a fall. Just depends on the judges at the Games. And I happen to believe Kristi, Tara, and Adelina all deserved their respective Olympic golds btw. As for Evgenia, I think the SP will tell. If she has a huge lead after that segment then it's game over imo. If she's close to her nearest top competitors- like Kim was in 2014 after the SP - then it's game on.

I never said they did not deserve their wins.