2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Pairs FS

[burntBREAD]

Picture of the medalists!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2uVYKIUsAAQ_By.jpg

 

[Weathergal]

If USFSA is going to make the World team selection immediately after Nationals as they normally do and not do something like use 4CCs to help make its decision, then I think they should send Denney / Frazier and Cain / LeDuc, both of whom I believe will continue to improve. US Pairs is in a place where, while they shouldn't give up on 2018, they need to build toward 2022.

Also I like Scimeca / Kniernem, but I'm sorry I wouldn't give them a bye when they haven't skated all season. I will probably get hammered for this, but I think medical byes are OK for someone who has been ill or injured for part of the season and just couldn't compete in Nationals.

 

[cathlen]

I know this but the Nats results are still in Tier 1 and I'm used to the standard that whoever does best ar Nats is sent. It might be different this year, but C/L still deserve it more than C/T.

I meant that C/T may not get a spot. Let's be real. Lots of teams WD. They are second, but only out of 9 teams. No good international results this season. Didn't compete at Worlds, at 4CC finished 6th out of 9 teams... The only thing they have, is that it's another year when they finished top3 at Nationals. If S/K will petition, they could get a spot instead.

 

[Lissy]

Alexa and Chris have officially filed a petition to be named to the Worlds team.

 

[gold12345]

If USFSA is going to make the World team selection immediately after Nationals as they normally do and not do something like use 4CCs to help make its decision, then I think they should send Denney / Frazier and Cain / LeDuc, both of whom I believe will continue to improve. US Pairs is in a place where, while they shouldn't give up on 2018, they need to build toward 2022.

Also I like Scimeca / Kniernem, but I'm sorry I wouldn't give them a bye when they haven't skated all season. I will probably get hammered for this, but I think medical byes are OK for someone who has been ill or injured for part of the season and just couldn't compete in Nationals.

You're already thinking about 2022 in 2017? Cain/LeDuc scored a 115 in the LP at Nationals under inflated scoring. They don't belong at Worlds yet. And they also haven't gotten a solid international score yet.

 

[Alchamei]

Alexa and Chris have officially filed a petition to be named to the Worlds team.

Clever Alexa, clever Chris.

 

[gold12345]

Alexa and Chris have officially filed a petition to be named to the Worlds team.

Given how this event went, I really think they could have won with two falls today. It's a shame that they weren't ready for this event, but if she is healthy and training, they are absolutely the US's top pair team and best chance at Worlds.

 

[Weathergal]

You're already thinking about 2022 in 2017? Cain/LeDuc scored a 115 in the LP at Nationals under inflated scoring. They don't belong at Worlds yet. And they also haven't gotten a solid international score yet.

I disagree with you. None of our pairs are on that solid ground. And yes I am thinking about 2022. Building up the pairs program to where it's more competitive won't happen in a year.

 

[gold12345]

I do disagree with some comments I've seen that Mervin and Marissa should split. That's one of the major problems why U.S. pairs never get anywhere. The positive thing about their 2nd place is maybe this will give them some confidence to be better and more consistent.

Yes. They have still not done a good long program in their career. But it feels a bit closer now than it used to.

 

[gold12345]

I disagree with you. None of our pairs are on that solid ground. And yes I am thinking about 2022. Building up the pairs program to where it's more competitive won't happen in a year.

Sending pairs to Worlds who aren't getting good scores even nationally yet when you have a stronger pair sitting at home that would likely place higher than any other two pairs we could send doesn't make sense though. 2017 Worlds has nothing to do with 2022. So much can happen in 5 years with any of these teams.

Cain/LeDuc will get better in training, not by being sent to Worlds prematurely. Besides, they didn't even place top 2 here, and that was with D/F and C/T not exactly knocking it out of the park.

 

[cptnhastings]

Alexa and Chris have officially filed a petition to be named to the Worlds team.

Good. I hope they're up to snuff and get it.

I watched NBCSN for the short and NBC for the long and I don't think they mentioned them at all. Which I think is kinda rude given their successful-for-US results the past few years and the fact that it is definitely possible that they could still make the Worlds.

I think NBC thinks most of its audience has absolutely no memory for the prior events when they show the Nationals. I'm sure someone who only watches the main events on tv were wondering where they were and got no info at all about them. Bad job NBC.

Anyways, congrats to the medalists. I like D/F's programs a lot. Especially the step sequence in their short.

 

[Weathergal]

Sending pairs to Worlds who aren't getting good scores even nationally yet when you have a stronger pair sitting at home that would likely place higher than any other two pairs we could send doesn't make sense though. 2017 Worlds has nothing to do with 2022. So much can happen in 5 years with any of these teams.

Cain/LeDuc will get better in training, not by being sent to Worlds prematurely. Besides, they didn't even place top 2 here, and D/F and C/T didn't exactly knock it out of the park.

I don't disagree with that entirely. But there are two things at play here. First is I still think we are better off with C/ L than C / T, both short and long term. The second is that having S / K come back with a medical bye without seeing how they perform makes no sense to me.

 

[Mrs. P]

One advantage the Knerims have is that they're based in Coloraldo Springs and train at World Arena, so it's likely USFS sees them train regularly and have a good sense of where they're at.

 

[nocturnalis]

Frankly, I'm surprised C/T competed the GP series after he had that concussion. M-T/M2 didn't and are probably better for it.

 

[gold12345]

I kinda want to see the protocols for Ashley and Tim. Did they not have enough transitions?

Their twist was 3TwB (3 judges actually gave it 0 GOE instead of -GOE which is surprising). They have simpler lifts. And Ashley underrotated the entire 2A-1Lo-3S combination. The 3S got a downgrade- she really wasn't close on that one but somehow stayed upright. They were 2 points lower than Castelli/Tran in base value.

Frankly, I'm surprised C/T competed the GP series after he had that concussion. M-T/M2 didn't and are probably better for it.

C/T even did a few summer competitions a month or so after it was said he had the concussion, which was surprising. But he seemed fine and able to do everything. It's not as if they were tearing it up last season either.

 

[Hyena]

Does the USFS *have* to name the team tomorrow? What would happen it they didn't?

Because I think this situation is begging to send top 3 here to 4CC and Scimeca/Knierim to a senior B if there is one, and then make the decision for Worlds. Cain/Leduc are definitely a team of the future, Denney/Frazier had the best results from the first half of the season, Scimeca/Knierim have had the best international results from the last few season, and Castelli/Tran...well, I just like them and want to believe they can pull it together.

 

[andromache]

Does the USFS *have* to name the team tomorrow? What would happen it they didn't?

Because I think this situation is begging to send top 3 here to 4CC and Scimeca/Knierim to a senior B if there is one, and then make the decision for Worlds. Cain/Leduc are definitely a team of the future, Denney/Frazier had the best results from the first half of the season, Scimeca/Knierim have had the best international results from the last few season, and Castelli/Tran...well, I just like them and want to believe they can pull it together.

Waiting until 4CCs isn't in the rules. Unfortunately. I think it'd be the thing to do in this situation (and others).

 

[Mathman]

If I remember correctly the wording in the USFSA bylaws says that I medical bye will be considered in the case of a "dominant" team that cannot compete at Nationals because of injury or illness. Dominant usually means someone like Michelle Kwan, or at least Nancy Kerrigan or Todd Eldredge.

By the way, in light of the new rules that give the federation more leaway to send anyone they want to worlds, there is no need for anyone to file a "petition" any more.

 

[Hyena]

Waiting until 4CCs isn't in the rules. Unfortunately. I think it'd be the thing to do in this situation (and others).

Right, but if they break their own rules, what happens? I suppose someone could file a complaint if they eventually were left off the world team and feel they would have been named based on Nationals.

 

[andromache]

Right, but if they break their own rules, what happens? I suppose someone could file a complaint if they eventually were left off the world team and feel they would have been named based on Nationals.

I would assume that USFS has some compelling reason for not wanting to wait until 4CCs to name the team, otherwise they would've allowed it in their own rules. (And the timing of 4CCs does make it difficult to peak at both. Euros is better timed.)