2018-19 U.S. Men’s figure skating

[SnowWhite]

Anyway, it's all experience. I do not know if Camden will get a quadruple jump. I do know he skated a beautiful LP at the JGPF last season. He can do that, and I was so proud of him for getting his combination in the SP throughout this season. He really struggled with it all last year. This season he nailed his combo so many times, and often when going up right after a great performance by someone else. There is a competitor in there. He just never seemed to develop the confidence with all of the elements in his LP this season. (It was the same during practices at the JGPF so not just competition pressure). I haven't analyzed his protocols. Are there particular jumps in his LP that he has struggled with all season & are not in his SP? Or is it more random? Obviously, in two of his performances he's missed a lot of jumps, including the ones he usually gets. I'm just wondering which ones he usually doesn't get.

Camden's planned layout for the FS for JW and US Nats seems to have been: 3A, 3Lz-eu-3S, 3Lo, 3A-3T // 2A, 3F-2T, 3Lz
Layout for JGP events: 3Lz-eu-3S, 3A, 3Lo, 3A-3T // 3F-2T, 2A, 3Lz

I'm only listing jumps with issues.

JW FS
- 3A (-0.57 GOE)
- 3Lz (fall)
- 2F!-2T
- 3Fe
- 3Lz-eu-2S

US Nats FS
- 1A
- 2Lz
- 2Lo
- 3A<
- 3Lz<

He did change the 2A into a clean 3A-3T, and added a double loop on the 3F-2T to make up for missing the 3 jump combo.

JGPF FS
- 3Lz-eu-3S<<
- 3Lo fall
- 3A-2T
- 1F !
- 3Lz<

He switched the 2A for a clean 3F-2T after missing the first one (I think).

CS Inge Solar FS
- 2Lz-eu-2S
- 3Lo (-1.08 GOE)
- 2A (-0.26 GOE)
- 3F-2T (-1.06 GOE)

Here he opened with a solo 3T, so I'm not counting the 3A-2T he did as a mistake.

JGP Czechia FS
- 3Lz+1Eu+3S fall
- 3A (-0.11 GOE)
- 3A+REP (-ve GOE)
- 3F-3T !
- FSSp2 (-ve GOE)

I assume he switched the 2T to a 3T on the flip since he missed that on the 3A. He also added 2T onto the last 3Lz.

JGP Austria
- 3Lz+1Eu+3S (-0.93 GOE)
- 3F-2T !
- 3Lz (-1.43 GOE)

Summary
I would have that this season, Camden has had a lot of issues with his 3Lz-eu-3S combo. Out of the 6 frees I looked at, he only had it mostly clean once, and that had some negative GOE. On his other attempts, he fell on the 3Lz once (and did 2S when he tried it on his 2nd 3Lz), fell on the the 3S once, popped both triples once, downgraded the 3S once and missed it completely at Nats. There were also some issues with the 3F-2T combo in 3 FS (2F-2T, 1F, -1.08 GOE), plus he got edge warnings most times, with a full edge call at JW. His 3Lo had issues about half the time in the FS, with a 2Lo, a fall and a -1.08 GOE.

Those look like the most consistent issues.

 

[Ice Dance]

Summary
I would have that this season, Camden has had a lot of issues with his 3Lz-eu-3S combo. Out of the 6 frees I looked at, he only had it mostly clean once, and that had some negative GOE. On his other attempts, he fell on the 3Lz once (and did 2S when he tried it on his 2nd 3Lz), fell on the the 3S once, popped both triples once, downgraded the 3S once and missed it completely at Nats. There were also some issues with the 3F-2T combo in 3 FS (2F-2T, 1F, -1.08 GOE), plus he got edge warnings most times, with a full edge call at JW. His 3Lo had issues about half the time in the FS, with a 2Lo, a fall and a -1.08 GOE.

Those look like the most consistent issues.

Thank you for that incredible amount of work. So last year he got that 3Lz-lo-3S every single time out: at 3 JGP events, U.S. Nationals, and at Junior Worlds. (1 edge call at Junior Worlds).

Regarding the flip toe combination, last season he did 3F3T with a bit of negative GOE in Austria. Then did 2F3T with +1 in Poland. Then did clean 3F3T at the JGPF. Then 2F2T (I assume there's at least one pop in this one somewhere) at U.S. Nationals. And 3F2T with +1 GOE at Junior Worlds. No edge warnings on any of those.

Loop was similarly 50/50 like this season. (1 fall. 1 pop. 1 3L with -1 goe (probably stepped out), others clean.

He did have a number of issues on the solitary 3F last season, though it was completely clean twice.

Feels pretty random, really.

 

[SnowWhite]

Thank you for that incredible amount of work. So last year he got that 3Lz-lo-3S every single time out: at 3 JGP events, U.S. Nationals, and at Junior Worlds. (1 edge call at Junior Worlds).

Regarding the flip toe combination, last season he did 3F3T with a bit of negative GOE in Austria. Then did 2F3T with +1 in Poland. Then did clean 3F3T at the JGPF. Then 2F2T (I assume there's at least one pop in this one somewhere) at U.S. Nationals. And 3F2T with +1 GOE at Junior Worlds. No edge warnings on any of those.

Loop was similarly 50/50 like this season. (1 fall. 1 pop. 1 3L with -1 goe (probably stepped out), others clean.

He did have a number of issues on the solitary 3F last season, though it was completely clean twice.

Feels pretty random, really.

Yeah. The only thing that stands out as a potential technical issue is that flip edge, since a number of callers were giving him at least the warning. But otherwise, even with the three jump combo, he messed it up differently every time. And it was successful last year.

 

[Mrs. P]

I personally think it's more an issue with the program than with Camden's jumping ability (maybe some competition nerves too). But I feel that WSS never really meshed with him. I thought it had some promise early in the season when he did fairly well with it in his first JGP but then he hasn't done well with it since then.

I appreciate his willingness to challenge himself and try new styles, but I just don't think an outgoing, performance-based, program was his jam, at least not now. It would have been a better fit for someone like Jason, who is more extroverted in his performance style.

I'm totally Monday morning quarterbacking, but I would've gone back to his Chopin program after JGPF.

 

[Ice Dance]

Yeah. The only thing that stands out as a potential technical issue is that flip edge, since a number of callers were giving him at least the warning.

Yet no one gave him any on either of his flips in the LP last season. (I don't know about in the short. I haven't looked through those. Once someone calls something, it can clue other callers into watching for it & asking for reviews though). Anyway, he does the flip in the SP, and he's been skating that program with a lot of confidence.

 

[sheetz]

There's clearly something going on with Camden and it may be a problem with coaching, technique, or both. I've watched practically all of his programs on Youtube and I'm pretty sure I've never seen him skate a clean long program. Like, ever. His JWC long from last year might have been his best and even that one wasn't clean. Given that he's not exactly attempting the hardest jump layouts I can't see him getting very far in seniors without the ability to skate cleanly.

 

[Ice Dance]

How many men have you seen skate a clean free skate this season? (I mean Jason hasn't; Vincent hasn't; Kraznozhon hasn't; Torgashev hasn't; I'm fairly sure at least 80% of the Canadian men haven't; any of the Russian men . . . at all? (Maybe Kovtun at Nationals?)

 

[oly2018]

Not skating clean all season is reasonable, but not once in a few....that doesn't bode well for the transition to seniors. Sheetz has a point, Camden doesn't have the most difficult jump layout. I can understand Vincent or Kovtun not skating clean because they are attempting some hard stuff. Camden is a beautiful skater, but he is not going to be given the same PCS cushion next year.

 

[RemyRose]

How many men have you seen skate a clean free skate this season? (I mean Jason hasn't; Vincent hasn't; Kraznozhon hasn't; Torgashev hasn't; I'm fairly sure at least 80% of the Canadian men haven't; any of the Russian men . . . at all? (Maybe Kovtun at Nationals?)

Nope

 

[bennorii]

Here's an assumed GP spot situation for next season, which I thought was actually kind of surprising.

2 spots:
Chen
Brown
Zhou
Hiwatashi (might get 1 but he won Jr. Worlds)

1 spot:
Pulkinen

0 spots/Fighting for SA Host spot:
(include Pulkinen)
Krasnozhon
Dolensky
Ma
Torgashev (might stay junior)

I had thought that next season, the 4 junior guys would have the WS and SBs to easily be shuffled into the range to comfortably get GP spots, but that is apparently not the case. Pulkinen's SB is already 35th, so I would think he's at the bottom of the list to be selected right now. Worlds is still coming, and SB standings can continue to change.

 

[macy]

i am SO THRILLED for all 3 men!!! holding 3 of the top 4 spots after the short...wow! although nathan is at least a podium lock if not a lock for gold at this point, no matter what happens in the free they all have something very big to be proud of.

i am especially proud of jason...this was a huge breakthrough for him.

 

[Tolstoj]

Arguargbly this should have been a US podium sweep after the SP.

 

[mrrice]

I couldn't be more proud of our Men at Worlds. They were all amazing and I'm so happy right now.

 

[SnowWhite]

Arguargbly this should have been a US podium sweep after the SP.

Well, arguably, it should have been USA-USA-ITA, because in no world should Vincent's PCS be higher than Matteo's, and just switching their PCS would have put Matteo ahead of Vincent.

But regardless, the US men did very well today.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Arguargbly this should have been a US podium sweep after the SP.

I'd have swapped Rizzo and Hanyu but still nice to see all 3 American entries in the top 4. And I would have thought it would have been likelier to see 3 Russian ladies in the top 4... to have 3 American men is something!

 

[starla16]

Its really reimposes the notion Jason Brown can never do well in Japan, its like he is always jinxed or curse there to never podium.

the USFS should make sure Brown doesnt have competitions in Japan

 

[tosca]

Congrats to Vincent on his first world medal! And congrats to Nathan on defending his title!! First time two Americans were on the podium since 1996!!!

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Nathan just broke two world records. The record for the total score and FS score. Amazing. Don't agree on his PCs, but oh well, he would have been the winner anyway. Putting out such great performances this season while studying at Yale and coaching himself is just amazing.

Thar popped Axel really lost Jason a lot of points. But nontheless his SP was amazing and him attempting the Quad Sal is the right path. I cannot wait to see his development the next season. If he gets that Quad around and landed with a combo he could be a contender for the Top 5, because of the quality of his skating and his spins. His triples are already so beautiful.
Congrats to Vincent! His strongest skate this season.

 

[Jammers]

Nathan has truly revolutionized US men's from a group of skaters know for great programs and skating but no quads to a powerhouse. Vincent is the result of Nathan's pushing the younger US men and it's now paid off with another US man on the podium who's even younger then him.

 

[natsulian]

The US men have truly put themselves on the map. With younger, talented men on the horizon, the US men’s depth will only increase. Congrats to Nathan and Vincent on medaling and to Jason for the small medal and putting up a good fight. Now, onto the World Team Trophy in a few weeks.