2018-2019 State of Japanese Men's Skating

[chopinskate]

I'm also shocked! Maybe Dai can have a Caro-style return? I'm so shocked tbh

Caro and Patrick Chan are exactly who I fear he will turn into...

 

[yume]

Dai is not from Nagoya.
But it will be totally normal if Dai get more, far more PCS than Kazuki and Keiji. GOEs on some jumps too since their quality jumps is not stellar.
This is the exact push that Kazuki and Keiji needed to give all they can to get that 3rd place. Because Dai without quads can surely beat them.

 

[yume]

I'm also shocked! Maybe Dai can have a Caro-style return? I'm so shocked tbh

I mostly hope it will not turn into a Mao return. It will depend if judges will still inderscore him on PCS. If they are ready to give him 90+ PCS and shower him with high GOEs, he will be in the game.
But he don't have the luck of Caro who is in ladies and who can fight for podium with 3 triples in FS.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Dai is not from Nagoya.

Yes, I just noticed, sorry. I keep thinking Kansai and writing Nagoya. Sorry. I need more coffee

 

[Li'Kitsu]

This is the exact push that Kazuki and Keiji needed to give all they can to get that 3rd place. Because Dai without quads can surely beat them.

Uhm. What exactly about Kazuki pulling out absolutely amazing clean skates in his WC debut under the pressure of even keeping that 3rd spot in the first place and now aiming for a 4T gave off the impression he "needs a push to give it his all"?

If Dai sans quad should be able to beat him (and Keiji) IMO will depend completely on what form Dai will come back in. We have no way of knowing as of now.

Edit: I can see saying Dai will likely deserve high PCS, but why super high GOE? His technical elements were mostly good (outside the amazing StSq), but I'm not seeing where his jumps were +4/+5's under the current system tbh

 

[yume]

Uhm. What exactly about Kazuki pulling out absolutely amazing clean skates in his WC debut under the pressure of even keeping that 3rd spot in the first place and now aiming for a 4T gave off the impression he "needs a push to give it his all"?

If Dai sans quad should be able to beat him (and Keiji) IMO will depend completely on what form Dai will come back in. We have no way of knowing as of now.

Maybe because aside from worlds he was far from this level of skates and didn't show that he can keep deliver like that at most of his competitions? And maybe because his potential scoring is not that high that he isn't intouchable.

Edit: I can see saying Dai will likely deserve high PCS, but why super high GOE? His technical elements were mostly good (outside the amazing StSq), but I'm not seeing where his jumps were +4/+5's under the current system tbh

Dai don't deserve super high GOEs. But good GOEs. Would be unfair to see him get +4 for a telegraphed jump without any other feature than height. But i don't see why he shouldn't get a little more than Kazuki and Keiji if his jumps are clean and beautiful.

 

[sk8ath]

Uhm. What exactly about Kazuki pulling out absolutely amazing clean skates in his WC debut under the pressure of even keeping that 3rd spot in the first place and now aiming for a 4T gave off the impression he "needs a push to give it his all"?

Actually he mentioned in the post-skate interview that he did not have any pressure at all before the FS.
I hope he can hold his nerves this season so he can be a real contender for the 3rd spot.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Maybe because aside from worlds he was far from this level of skates and didn't show that he can keep deliver like that at most of his competitions? And maybe because his potential scoring is not that high that he isn't intouchable.

How high or not his potential scoring is doesn't even have anything to do with this?

And yes, he didn't deliver too well before WC, which is why the improvement is actually so amazing, but okay.

 

[Szeptuszka]

Wow, Daisuke! I'm mind-blown. I hope he'll have many skates to be proud of and will inspire the new generation to be even more artistic. Good luck, Dai-chan!

Maybe because aside from worlds he was far from this level of skates and didn't show that he can keep deliver like that at most of his competitions? And maybe because his potential scoring is not that high that he isn't intouchable.

It seemed to me that it was more a case of consistently improving rather than being inconsistent. His body is still in the process of maturing; his jumps looked way less powerful earlier in the season than at the Challenge Cup and (especially) Worlds and summer shows.

No skater is untouchable, especially somebody with (still) so little senior experience; but he seems to be very fired up judging from his recent interviews, challenging different styles, working with Misha Ge and his jump layout in shows.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Dai don't deserve super high GOEs. But good GOEs. Would be unfair to see him get +4 for a telegraphed jump without any other feature than height. But i don't see why he shouldn't get a little more than Kazuki and Keiji if his jumps are clean and beautiful.

I don't get this.

He should get more than Keiji or Kazuki do on GOE if his jumps are clean and "beautiful" (I am not sure what that means because his jumps didn't have a lot of height, or ice coverage, or steps etc) because? I'm not getting that part. Why is Dai somehow higher on this GOE ladder suddenly?

 

[yume]

How high or not his potential scoring is doesn't even have anything to do with this?

It has something to do with this because it's the potential scoring which show who has the best chance to be on podium.
It has something to do in his mind too because he knows that he have to increase it by skating clean and beautifully the most possible to have the best chance to get the third spot.

 

[yume]

I don't get this.

He should get more than Keiji or Kazuki do on GOE if his jumps are clean and "beautiful" (I am not sure what that means because his jumps didn't have a lot of height, or ice coverage, or steps etc) because? I'm not getting that part. Why is Dai somehow higher on this GOE ladder suddenly?

Because when i see the jumps that Keiji for example, lands most of the time, i don't see why those jumps should score more than the jumps that Dai landed.

But well since you think that his jump lack many qialities i agree that he should get little GOEs.

Anyway, would not be great for me to see him scored in Caro-style. There is too much unfairness already.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

It has something to do with this because it's the potential scoring which show who has the best chance to be on podium.
It has something to do in his mind too because he knows that he have to increase it by skating clean and beautifully the most possible to have the best chance to get the third spot.

But that's my point: Kazuki already knows he needs to increase it and seems to work very hard on that (aka bringing the 4T). That's what my issue with your previous post was: basically saying without Dai coming back, Kazuki would apparently not push as hard as he could, when IMO it is clear he is anyway.

 

[charlotte14]

I am still on the cloud lol :roll9: I mean good luck to Dai! But I still need time to proceed with this. :reye:

 

[Yatagarasu]

Because when i see the jumps that Keiji for example, lands most of the time

I wouldn't give Keiji high GOE either.
What I mean mostly is that none of them is a high GOE candidate, so 3/4/5 to me. We'll see how it goes next season, how much Kazuki will improve and he seems to be working really hard, up to how much can Dai recover.

 

[ioanna]

Tatsuki Machida's jumps would have gotten and deserved high GOEs had he returned, IMO. His picking technique in particular is similar to that of Yuzuru, they point their toe outwards for flip and lutz. Daisuke Takahashi's forte is clearly the step sequence, which I'm glad I will be able to see again. All the best to him, I'm definitely excited to finally see him compete for himself and not for other people's expectations.

 

[Alchamei]

Oh my God, let me say this for short: Unless some crazy inflation thing happen (and I don't think it will), then don't blame Daisuke if other skaters don't manage to beat him and get on the team. If he skates the best, he deserves to be on the team, and there is no rule you should retire to make place for other skaters. I never thought I'd see haters of Daisuke but here we are.

 

[surimi]

Thank you so much for the info. You're probably right. With Sota's rapid growth and the way he was forcing himself to keep up with Nathan that season it makes sense. I just remember cringing every time he would attempt a 3A.

Sorry to be late in replying (still trying to cope with Daisuke returning and sadness over the result of the JPN/BEL match, lol). Since you mentioned Sota's growth, I'm a bit worried about Sena in this respect. I checked his bio and he's already 171cm, and he's just 16. I hope the growth spurt treats him kindly.

This is exactly it! I didn't really want to elaborate earlier since I was already saying so much but I think Hino could really benefit from not being so serious and intense during his performances. He just needs and "lighten up" a bit.
Yuzuru can get away with "intense" and Shoma with "serious" because they're both able to engage their audience.
With the right programs, Keiji can get away with "intense" because IMO he has a natural smoldering type of sex appeal.
Ryuju's intensity and glare however, comes across (to me anyway) as angry and intimidating. I'm not saying he needs to ham it up like Kazuki T. or Hiroaki Sato, just relax a bit and enjoy himself. And who knows, this may also help with the consistency of his 4T. I really like his skating and find his jumps to be very pretty. I'd like to see him bring some of his quirky personality to his performances. I'm certain with some redirection and the right programs he could breakthrough again.

Interesting viewpoint, because my impressions are the exact opposite. To my eyes his expression often oozes low self-esteem, defeat and insecurity, which makes me want to pull at my hair as he's got a lot to show off, but is apparently clueless as to how to capitalize on it! SMH. Agree re- the jumps, they're so light and effortless in the landing when he hits them; very nice to watch. (since you seem knowledgeable about the state of Japanese men's skating, do you happen to know what the major injury was that ryuju went through when he was very young? I've seen some people mention it in connection with the new cojoint interview of him and Sota for Quadruple, saying that both skaters overcame a major injury, but I have no idea what they're referring to)

 

[tsuyoboogie]

Y’all don’t need to worry about Kazuki T. He may not be the most gifted in regards to skating skills or jumping ability but the boy is a fighter. He’s fully aware of his shortcomings and is determined to improve to be able to compete with the top Men.

I see a lot of comments about JSF being biased and not supporting or promoting their skaters properly but IMO Kazuki’s steady progress is a reflection of the fed’s tough love tactic.
I believe the reason up and coming skaters are often scored harshly at domestic events is to point out skills they can improve on, challenging them to become more well rounded and ultimately preparing them for international competition.

EDIT: I feel that being tough on these skaters from a young age teaches them to take responsibility for their decisions and performances. If they want to to be assigned an international event they need to prove they really want it and work for it. Talent alone does not make a champion.

These are athletes who in order to be competitive need to develop confidence in themselves and their abilities and we shouldn’t pity them when they're faced with strong rivals.
How often do you hear a TJ skater complain about an assignment they were given, say they were scored unfairly or make excuses for a disappointing performance?
I personally prefer JSF’s method over the coddling or overindulgent scoring used by some other federations.
IMO, the few skaters who currently receive special treatment by JSF have already proven themselves consistently (with one understandable exception).

Sorry to be late in replying (still trying to cope with Daisuke returning and sadness over the result of the JPN/BEL match, lol). Since you mentioned Sota's growth, I'm a bit worried about Sena in this respect. I checked his bio and he's already 171cm, and he's just 16. I hope the growth spurt treats him kindly.

JPN/BEL match~:sad21: But at least both teams fought hard!

Sena experienced a growth spurt just prior to the 2016-2017 season which seemed to really mess with his stability and jumps. He looked more in control of his body last season though he still suffers from inconsistency. I think he only grew about a centimeter or so within the last year so hopefully he'll be fine...at least until his next growth spurt.

Interesting viewpoint, because my impressions are the exact opposite. To my eyes his expression often oozes low self-esteem, defeat and insecurity, which makes me want to pull at my hair as he's got a lot to show off, but is apparently clueless as to how to capitalize on it! SMH. Agree re- the jumps, they're so light and effortless in the landing when he hits them; very nice to watch. (since you seem knowledgeable about the state of Japanese men's skating, do you happen to know what the major injury was that ryuju went through when he was very young? I've seen some people mention it in connection with the new cojoint interview of him and Sota for Quadruple, saying that both skaters overcame a major injury, but I have no idea what they're referring to)

I can see and agree with your view on Ryuju's expression as well. Fingers crossed he'll surprise us all by delivering two fresh and exciting new programs.
I know he missed the 2008-2009 season due to injury but don't know any details about the type of injury he suffered. Maybe bluelutz knows? (GS member since 2003!)

 

[KiraraChin]

Kazuki Tomono's new SP: 'Nuovo Cinema Paradiso', choreographed by Misha Ge: http://wolfieonice.tumblr.com/post/175642074606/kazuki-tomono-dreams-on-ice-2018