2018 GP Helsinki Ladies Short Program

[Sam-Skwantch]

What other ladies placements after the short program? Thanks in advance.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/gpfin2018/SEG003.HTM

 

[Interspectator]

It was way too late last night to comment anything coherent after watching the ladies short program --AND I was also watching the Artistic Gymnastics World Championships at the same time.

But it was a rough night for the ladies. I can't bear to see them sad and disappointed.

Loved Rika's SP. -I've been watching her skate as a Senior for some years now, and ever since she debuted on the Grand Prix circuit, it has never been dull. Her programs and presence are always a treat for me. She's battled with a lot of injuries, but she skates because she loves to perform. I love to watch her.

Kaori's speed and power across the ice is astounding and beautiful. Those mistakes made me flinch. Kaori-chan, we're all still cheering for you.

I'm beginning to enjoy Alina's POTO SP more as I watch it. Ignoring the music cuts etc, she's getting to where she's not chasing the music as much and the performance is improving. The mistake on the combo aside, she's still the strongest of the field and rightfully ahead.

Hoping for better results and happier expressions for the Free Skate.

 

[SXTN]

The 3Lz+1Lo combination shall henceforth be known as "The Bradie"

It's actually "The Mao", not "The Bradie".

 

[CellarDweller]

Now that I've watched the women skate, I can post here. I had to work today, so I missed seeing this live, and chatting with you all!

first of all, those giant feet in the add behind every skater are another level of kitch and very destracting i blame them for the curse!

Blame the feet! Blame the feet!!! It could've been a fungus ad and had some really nasty lookin' toes on the feet!



I really liked Rika's costume and music. I hope she NAILS her long program and wows everyone.

Happy to see Loena in 3rd, and I hope she is able to skate cleanly, and earn a medal. I know she can't do this now, but damn I find that edit of Céline's song so distracting and annoying. It really should be redone some way.

Felt so badly for Kaori! I hope she doesn't have a serious injury! A concussion is nothing to take lightly.

Yuna was fun to watch.

Sorry to see Angela pop her jump, fingers crossed for redemption in the long.

Not a fan of Alina, but she held it together after her pop, which I will admit, I was surprised to see.

 

[mishulyia]

I find it “funny” that what constitutes a “serious error” deserving of PCS caps is not defined. Is lack of a combo in the SP a serious error, due to failing to meet one of the seven technical elements? What about an invalidated spin that, while not satisfying the requirements, isn’t aesthetically unappealing and doesn’t disrupt the programme? It’s still missing one of the seven technical elements. Why are judges allowed to award PCS marks in excess of ISU’s own rules when a programme contains a fall? (Why doesn’t this at least trigger a pop-up and a reminder to the judge to revise and resubmit.) Why are scores that are clearly input errors accepted — a row of -5s, and the lone +3? Why doesn’t the gap in consensus cause the system to force the judge who’s out of consensus to review the element, then re-enter the GOE? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

New question to ponder this season.. when it comes to salvaging PCS.. better to pop than it is to fall? Goes against what I thought was conventional wisdom.. better to fall rather than pop. Fall = less TES deductions but more PCS deductions? Pop = more TES deductions but somewhat spared PCS?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Are people knitting mittens in the crowd here?

 

[Mathman]

Fall = less TES deductions but more PCS deductions? Pop = more TES deductions but somewhat spared PCS?

That's a great question. I think it could also go the opposite. A pop can be so bad that it brings the whole program to a stop, disrupts the choreography and puts the skater off her music.But sometimes a skater can jump right back up after a fall and continue smoothly on her way -- plus, the skater may get some PCS brownie points because at least she did her nest with that killer triple Axel or quad attempt!

 

[Metis]

That's a great question. I think it could also go the opposite. A pop can be so bad that it brings the whole program to a stop, disrupts the choreography and puts the skater off her music.But sometimes a skater can jump right back up after a fall and continue smoothly on her way -- plus, the skater may get some PCS brownie points because at least she did her nest with that killer triple Axel or quad attempt!

Worst case scenario, popping and falling result in the same GOE, can lead to a loss of combo, etc. A fall is an additional -1 deduction and mandatory PCS caps, not that I have much hope of those being enforced. A pop that invalidates a combo could be considered a “serious error,” but trying to gauge whether or not it is from protocols is like staring into a Magic 8 Ball.

Falls aren’t all created equal, but assuming “rotations completed, fall” for BV purposes... there’s the deduction, the BV being slashed, and PCS caps. A pop can be as bad, but it isn’t necessarily as devastating as a fall — by popping, are we assuming singling out? Because singling versus doubling makes a real difference. And even an invalid -1T prevents a +COMBO penalty (and the rules on calling the jump to tag +COMBO are less generous now), which is better than executing a solo jump and falling after the first jump of an intended combo.

The points lost are brutal no matter what, but a popped jump doesn’t come with an extra -1 deduction. I’d rather pop than fall, as the raw BV for rotating a jump without sticking the landing is nowhere near what it used to be.

 

[CoyoteChris]

If you're going to try to pack a whole musical into a program, don't do it in the short program

I am a big POTO fan and even I hate those cuts! Kill me!

 

[CoyoteChris]

Do we need to send an exorcist to the ice?

Did you see the ice monsters come out of the ice at SkateAmerica too and grab skaters?

 

[DanseMacabre]

Are people knitting mittens in the crowd here?

It's a Finnish thing. This coach at the Olympics made headlines for it.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Kaori Sakamoto (JPN)

Ouch, a hard fall on the opening 3F. Beautiful comeback with the 2A. Good positions and speed through the combo spin (Level 4). Smooth and clean footwork sequence, a bit better with her top line (Level 3). Ouch, another fall on the 3Lo+3T attempt, 3T looked <. A bit short on the flying spin (Level 3). Okay speed through the layback spin but good positions (Level 4).

Eek, a pair of harsh falls in the program. I love how she generates speed so easily and I'm glad she was able to stay focused. Very brave to go after the 3T at the end of the loop

Replay: Just caught an edge on the 3F. The 3T after the loop looks < to me.

I just hope she isnt hurt.....

 

[CoyoteChris]

Ok, who brought the voodoo dolls to the event? Stop it now!

At SkateAmerica, there were ice monsters in the ice. They feed on nerves....you can see them swimming like sharks under the ice and then WHAM! They grab a skaters leg and dive down again......:sad21:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

It's a Finnish thing. This coach at the Olympics made headlines for it.

I know...that’s why I love Finlandia Trophy so much. All that mitten knitting!! I hadn’t noticed any reports of people knitting at this event here at GS.

I like that link too...thanks for sharing.

 

[cohen-esque]

Worst case scenario, popping and falling result in the same GOE, can lead to a loss of combo, etc. A fall is an additional -1 deduction and mandatory PCS caps, not that I have much hope of those being enforced. A pop that invalidates a combo could be considered a “serious error,” but trying to gauge whether or not it is from protocols is like staring into a Magic 8 Ball.

Falls aren’t all created equal, but assuming “rotations completed, fall” for BV purposes... there’s the deduction, the BV being slashed, and PCS caps. A pop can be as bad, but it isn’t necessarily as devastating as a fall — by popping, are we assuming singling out? Because singling versus doubling makes a real difference. And even an invalid -1T prevents a +COMBO penalty (and the rules on calling the jump to tag +COMBO are less generous now), which is better than executing a solo jump and falling after the first jump of an intended combo.

The points lost are brutal no matter what, but a popped jump doesn’t come with an extra -1 deduction. I’d rather pop than fall, as the raw BV for rotating a jump without sticking the landing is nowhere near what it used to be.

In the SP, a 3X+1T* and a 3X+COMBO will get the exact same points. No one has scored highly enough this season for the PCS caps to come into play anyway, so who knows whether the first one is supposed to be a "serious error" or not.

Doing a single is pretty much always bad. It's pointless in the SP and in the FS, doing a single in combo will usually net fewer points than moving the combination to somewhere else, unless you'd get a +REP penalty, in which case it's still better if the combo was supposed to be a triple. A single is always worth less than falling on a triple or quad.

A double is worse than a rotated quad fall, points-wise. It might not always be, if you avoid PCS caps, but that's only really relevant for a handful of skaters, and I'd rather trust the TES points than depend on how the judges decide to mark PCS points. But doing a double is better than, or at least as good as, as falling on a triple.

 

[largeman]

It's actually "The Mao", not "The Bradie".

Okay let's get it straight

3F+1Lo = The Mao
3Lz+1Lo = The Bradie

ETA: you've just sent me down a rabbit hole of watching back to back Mao videos on YouTube for 45 minutes...

 

[zounger]

Zagitova is super lucky she got an easy lineup for this GP, else her GPF hopes would be at risk too with that score.

Her outfit is gorgeous, but the music cut is terrible.

I would say luckier are the ladies from other events that aim to GPF because of Kaori's bad SP. I don't know if she can podium here. And also Kaori's and Alina's score will probably be low in case of a draw.

Edit: Actually she (Kaori) can and I hope so, I thought her difference from 2,3 was bigger.

 

[satine]

It's actually "The Mao", not "The Bradie".

Okay let's get it straight

3F+1Lo = The Mao
3Lz+1Lo = The Bradie

ETA: you've just sent me down a rabbit hole of watching back to back Mao videos on YouTube for 45 minutes...

Off topic, but- 1, 2, 3, 4 -when you're right, you're right!

 

[largeman]

Off topic, but- 1, 2, 3, 4 -when you're right, you're right!

Over the years, the way she pops that loop has been so consistent though

Okay I just spent another hour watching Mao videos... for those who haven't seen this, I highly recommend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq4fzNHWjwI

It is off topic but that first 3A she ever landed in international competition was in Helsinki (2004 JGPF), so it's not completely off topic

 

[elektra blue]

Now that I've watched the women skate, I can post here. I had to work today, so I missed seeing this live, and chatting with you all!




Blame the feet! Blame the feet!!! It could've been a fungus ad and had some really nasty lookin' toes on the feet!



.

that thing is stalking me in my nightmares