2018 Internationaux de France Men's Short Program

[Tavi...]

If you remember it was Tracy Wilson that came to bat for Jason for him to train at TCC. I think Brian knew of his gifts and talent, but kinda didn't realize how powerful he could be when he did a clean program.

I think Brian realized he had something special at his hands (if he didn't before). As he told Jason "YOU DID THAT"

And yeah at Jason -- he seemed really focused and intense.

So here is what Jason said:

“Today I just tried my best to be as calm, confident and focused as I possibly could be and I did that throughout the whole program,” Brown said.

https://isu.org/press-releases/2018-8/19053-gp-fra-day1/file

It will be interesting to see if he can sustain that calm, confidence, and focus tomorrow. He’s supposed to open with a 4S which he’s popped both times he’s tried it in competition recently. I hope he stays calm and focused and really goes for it tomorrow, even if he falls. And then keeps going.

It will also be interesting to see how people react to him closing out the men’s competition with the S&G free skate, since it seems to be an acquired taste for many people.

 

[karne]

I've watched it another three times this morning and am almost literally melted into a pile of goopy mush. It's so good. Jason's not a goofy boy any more and it shows. This is the program that reminds everyone he's a young man now. It oozes maturity and sensuality from its every pore.

I am 100% on the Jason for National Champion again train.

 

[moriel]

While I have nothing against Jason and sometimes like him, 50.69 TES with no quads shows everything that is wrong with ISU.

 

[CellarDweller]

Yes but anyone who was a watcher of "Wide World of Sports" knows: The falls in ski jumping are the most exciting part.

"The AGONY of DE FEET"

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xi1ccMp7rnc/hqdefault.jpg

 

[Tavi...]

While I have nothing against Jason and sometimes like him, 50.69 TES with no quads shows everything that is wrong with ISU.

Perhaps you should watch videos of Eteri’s junior ladies doing quad Lutz combos. It’ll take the bad taste out of your mouth.

 

[CellarDweller]

I would not have expected these results.

Very surprised to see the +GOE for both Nathan and Alexander.

Very surprised to see both Frenchmen in the final group! I'm glad Kevin Aymoz ranks so high, I hope he slays for the LP.

Very surprised to see Jason on top after the short, but he definitely deserved it, it was the best SP of the night. Shows that a well executed program with triples can beat out a poorly planned program with messy quads.

 

[Seren]

While I have nothing against Jason and sometimes like him, 50.69 TES with no quads shows everything that is wrong with ISU.

No, because if you can score that TES on a no quad program then think what you can score with a program that good with quads. It's not like there is one max score everyone is chasing. If someone skates a program as good as Jason's with quads their score would be much higher than 50.69 TES. No one is stopping them.

 

[Metis]

Maybe the quad versus not discussion should get its own thread in The Edge?

I’m curious if people feel Jason shouldn’t actually be leading (which... I would be interested in reading a thorough analysis of why) versus those who feel the score is somehow too high. Maybe we could calculate max possible scores for some SP layouts and try to figure out if 98-105 is once again going to be where we expect people like Uno, Chen, etc., to score, or if 110 is more accessible. Because the only other skater as clean as Jason today was Deniss, who also didn’t do a quad, and I think Jason deservedly received higher GOEs. Samarin is exciting, has fantastic height on his jumps, but he isn’t a complete skater. Nathan lost more points in losing levels than he did on the 4F!< fall. And so on. I am struggling to think of who should be leading other than Jason, who was just... the best today. It doesn’t mean a new world order of triples — it means he was the best today, in this competition.

And Samarin would be in first if he’d managed his ice coverage better. The -2T saved him from a +COMBO but didn’t add points. So, yeah, the skater who did a quad isn’t in first because he also didn’t earn points beyond the first jump in his “combo,” which is pretty much where TES is won or lost in the SP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[moriel]

Maybe the quad versus not discussion should get its own thread in The Edge?

I’m curious if people feel Jason shouldn’t actually be leading (which... I would be interested in reading a thorough analysis of why) versus those who feel the score is somehow too high. Maybe we could calculate max possible scores for some SP layouts and try to figure out if 98-105 is once again going to be where we expect people like Uno, Chen, etc., to score, or if 110 is more accessible. Because the only other skater as clean as Jason today was Deniss, who also didn’t do a quad, and I think Jason deservedly received higher GOEs. Samarin is exciting, has fantastic height on his jumps, but he isn’t a complete skater. Nathan lost more points in losing levels than he did on the 4F!< fall. And so on. I am struggling to think of who should be leading other than Jason, who was just... the best today. It doesn’t mean a new world order of triples — it means he was the best today, in this competition.

And Samarin would be in first if he’d managed his ice coverage better. The -2T saved him from a +COMBO but didn’t add points. So, yeah, the skater who did a quad isn’t in first because he also didn’t earn points beyond the first jump in his “combo,” which is pretty much where TES is won or lost in the SP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think Jason should be leading, but with a smaller adge over Samarin and Nathan

 

[Colonel Green]

While I have nothing against Jason and sometimes like him, 50.69 TES with no quads shows everything that is wrong with ISU.

Rewarding quality element execution?

 

[twirlingblades]

While I have nothing against Jason and sometimes like him, 50.69 TES with no quads shows everything that is wrong with ISU.

He also got all level 4s with positive GOE

 

[karne]

While I have nothing against Jason and sometimes like him, 50.69 TES with no quads shows everything that is wrong with ISU.

No, Samarin still getting +GOE on a quad he turned out of is everything that's wrong with the ISU.

Rewarding quality skating over sloppy failed quads is everything that is right with the ISU.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think Jason should be leading, but with a smaller adge over Samarin and Nathan

The margin is there because both Alexander AND Nathan made small errors that added up. The judges are super strict on spin/step GOE and that happened to be what Jason is good at.

About 3 points of Jason's margin on Sasha is on spin/step GOE alone. Six of the 10 point margin on Nathan is just spins/steps. I suppose you could argue Jason should have had lower GOE on the jumps and maybe a different judging panel would have been less generous on GOE.

Jason was able to capitalize on other people's mistakes. Had Sasha did a 4Z-3T or Nathan didn't fall on his 4F then Jason, even at that score, wouldn't have been first.

 

[twirlingblades]

I mean, Rika Kihira got a higher free skate TES score than all but three men skating so far this year (Yuzuru, Shoma, Nathan). He could do it if the quadsters don't deliver.

If the “quadsters” don’t deliver, then yes it’s possible.

 

[satine]

Men's videos are up :agree:

 

[TallyT]

To me, that's the key right there. Quads are still the be-all and end-all of men's figure skating -- if they deliver.

Witness Yuzu's and Shoma's top scores in the SP. Without quads, Jason can't touch that. Without quality, no one can.

 

[Ice Diva]

Liking Jason Brown version 2.0 a great deal.

 

[twirlingblades]

I feel great about it. I know quads are difficult - well for a few they seem easy - but really good step sequences, spins, etc are difficult as well. Some who can do quads can't do decent step sequences or spins. Honestly if all a skater can do is quads, and gets 1-2 GOE on all other elements, I'm not going to find it very interesting. And if a skater can only do quads well, and falls on them, it's a 1/2 the value in GOE. So I can definitely see a squeaky clean quadless program scoring over a flawed one with quads. I know a lot of people seem to only care about quads, and how many quads are done in a program - Tara, I'm looking at you, here! For me it's just another element.

I agree overall with this sentiment, but with the way leveling works, I do find some level 2 step sequences much more dynamic and interesting then level 4s- it more has to do with the skaters themselves. Same with spins. The leveling causes a lot of skaters to do similar spins due to having to check certain boxes to get levels. It’s very restrictive.

I guess I take exception to the “decent step sequences or spins” and “can only do quads” comment. Some skaters are better than others at these elements (just like some skaters are better at jumps) but it’s not like they’re getting to a Grand Prix level without having decent spins and steps.

However, I do agree that there is no reason for a skater like Nathan or Evgenia to not hit levels.

Jason saw the opportunity and took it— he knows he has to hit levels to make up for being quadless. (Also- I’m kind of done with Jason’s quad drama. It’s been *years*. Either land it or stop talking about it.)

 

[Harriet]

Now caught up with Romain and Kevin too - wow, thrilled for them both. Romain really came into his own here, he's settled into the program and he made the most of every second, and Kevin was just a blast of energy and commitment. Keep up the good work, guys!

 

[Interspectator]

It's been a wild GP but in the men's division, the expected favorite has gotten gold so far. Shoma/Nathan/Yuzuru/Shoma/Yuzuru... I was delighted when I saw Jason on top with his SP and surprised when I woke up to watch the ladies. But when I thought about it, it wasn't exactly out of the blue.
He got similar scores under the previous scoring system for his SP in 2017 for the same reason he's getting them now. All fair and square. So you go Jason! :thumbsup:

The FS is a different beast entirely. For the past few seasons it has been Jason's downfall when in a good position after the SP. He needs to get over this mental hump so I'll have everything crossed for him to prove to himself that he can do it.