2018 NHK Ladies Free Skate

[rikaquegira]

Wow.. Is that why people are so mad? They don't even know the rules???

 

[rikaquegira]

By the way, anyone knows more info about the coverage of NHK by Ashley Wagner on the Olympic Channel? Where can we watch it and when? I saw her twitter but didn't see other details.
And is the Olympic Channel online? I entered their website and they have a Live/TV thing, is that where they will show NHK?

 

[moriel]

Can you point out to me where exactly in the rules it’s stated that it‘s mandatory to jump big? Her jumps are tiny, yes, but better rotated than last year. It doesn‘t matter how high you jump as long as you get all the way around. Satoko was marked on her URs and got unclear edge calls.

Boring programs? That‘s pretty subjective. I for example love her interpretation and to me her programs are not boring at all. Movements not held long enough? Satoko holds her movements longer than a lot of skaters these days.

Liza should be ahead of her in jumps because she is significantly better. But at everything else, Satoko beats her. Spins, steps, transitions, interpretation, skating skills. I’m a fan of both of them and I think the placements are fair. It was a tiny lead Satoko had over Liza anyway, it‘s not like she beat her by a big margin or something.

"Lacking rotation (no sign), including half loop in a combo", which is -1 or -2 GOE
Too lazy to go through the FS, but in her SP:
3Lz+3T, honestly, 3T should be 3T<, or at most +1/+2, not +2/+3
2A - she takes off backwards, and its not anywhere close to 2.5 revolutions. Benefit of doubt, but again a -1/-2 GOE penality for lack of rotation.

That is at least 1-2 points just in the SP.



one could argue that Liza's axel deserves a -2/-3 for long preparation, but there is this thing it easily deserves a +4, and maybe a +5 (music is not loud, but tje jump actually matches the beat quite well).
So it comes to the very same +2/+3 that Liza got in fact.

 

[moriel]

Not exactly...you need to achieve the first three before getting +4 or +5. You can get any three bullets in any order to achieve +3 but you have to achieve the first three to surpass that.

IMO...she doesn’t qualify for bullet 5 either really. She’s a good candidate for 4 and 6 though. I think the real question is to what degree do her jumps actualy inspire negative GOE for poor execution of some of those earlier bullets. It’s an interesting discussion that I think is going to continue as long as she is being scored among the top.

I'd say Satoko's cap is +3 (because #1 bullet just nope).
Also, imho, many of her jumps are candidates to "Lacking rotation (no sign) including half loop in a combo, -1 to -2", which means her GOE on jumps should be +1/+2.

 

[solani]

Great competition. The ladies were on fire! I would have Elizaveta in 2nd and I think that her jumps, especially her lutz, are underscored. Period. Her jumps look better than ever, she looks so stable. But she probably needs her flip again ... those few points are precious these days ...
Satoko certainly got the Japan's no. 1 bonus but if Rika continues to skate like that those days will be over soon ... Did Rika plan to do 3A-3T? I think it's impressive that Satako is still able to fight like she does, knowing what Rika is capable of. I wonder what Eteri is making Alina do now. They can't just hope that Rika will go down two times ...
I think it's great that Satoko and Elizaveta qualified for the GPF!

 

[SnowWhite]

well, technically Zhenya did it in second year after Olympics, winning everything in her 1st senior year.
Alina did it in an Olympic year even.

And even Radionova in the last post-Olympic year. She came out, won Japan Open, won both her GPs, 2nd at GPF, won Russian Nationals, 2nd at Euros, 3rd at Worlds.

 

[Hyena]

It's really hard to compare seeing a skater live at one event and on TV at another, but I found that live at Skate America Satoko's jumps were absolutely tiny yet surprisingly looked clean. I was looking closely at that too. Watching NHK from the comfort of my couch, many of her jumps looked potentially underrotated. It's possible she really was just cleaner at Skate America, but I wonder if there's a real difference between what the judges see and what we see on a screen. Her jumps will never meet criteria for good height and length, but good take-off and landing? Very possibly. Or at least it may not appear to the naked eye that they are "lacking rotation" and necessitate -1-2 off.

In the end, I thought it was interesting and appropriate here that she and Liza were so close. They are exact opposites of each other in strengths/weaknesses.

 

[Arriba627]

yep we do.
We see the tiny jumps. We see the boring programs, movements not held long enough and so on.

I don't find Satoko's programs boring at all. Especially the ones choreographed by Tom Dickson.

 

[Ichatdelune]

You’re not crazy. I think Chicago is just an odd vehicle and a bit beyond her age range, at least if you’re going to use Nowadays (“You can even marry Harry but mess around with Ike”). Roxie is meant to be a charismatic, “warm,” engaging character — Chicago is very tongue-in-cheek, not just “SERVE FACE HERE,” and Roxie is pretty much a send-up of the stereotypical hero and hero’s journey. The heart actually isn’t egregious choreo, so much as that it’s really awkward in terms of how Eunsoo is portraying Roxie. Roxie herself would totally blow a kiss and go for heart hands in the middle of a murder spree (or murder serenade). You need to bring out that warmth and charm in the character for the music to work.

At the risk of inviting even more Yuna comparisons, Bond would have been a better fit for Eunsoo. Not Bond girl — Bond. (Which is why I think Yuna’s and Wakaba’s programmes are so iconic, tangentially: they weren’t Bond girls. They were Bond.) She has the face-serving for a Bond-style programme, and it would allow her to develop her flirty side and drama chops. Roxie... is just not believable at the moment, though I don’t think it’s a crazy choice. But what Eunsoo is missing is the ingenue quality and the irony of the character, which is why I find her Roxie so joyless and lifeless. Roxie is fun, she’s charming, she’s conniving as all get out but she is, ultimately, who you’re meant to root for as the audience.

Even Hindi Sad Diamonds from Moulin Rouge (I know, another warhorse) would be a better fit than Chicago while in the same wheelhouse. Satine isn’t as nuanced a character as Roxie, frankly, and Hindi Sad Diamonds isn’t a warm, triumphant number — it’s bombastic but dark. I don’t think Eunsoo is ready for a tango, but something that leans tango could work and help her develop her performance chops. A soundtrack isn’t a bad start, really: give Eunsoo a clear character so she can expand her range and expand her performance range. But Roxie ... really requires the skater to have a strong connection with the audience to work, and Eunsoo is still so young. The end result is very junior high theatre. :|

I actually think Eunsoo and Liz should swap programmes (and I love Liz’s free on her). Liz needs a stronger, character-driven programme and Eunsoo needs the vibe of Liz’s programme but not a character as layered as Roxie. Or, if she wanted to go a completely opposite direction, why not pull from Jane Austen? (Am I the only one who read her novels as a pre-teen?) Emma, Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice — lots of age-appropriate but not flat female characters to channel there, plenty of great soundtrack choices, narrative arcs, etc.

Oh right, you just reminded me of another thing. See, that squirtle has said in her interview with TSL that she's not portraying Roxie, but the overall feel of Chicago (as she felt it). So she's neither Roxie nor Velma, it's just an image of 'what Chicago is like'. But the choreo is obviously structured for a Roxie. I have no idea what kind of communications happened with Suzuki Akiko and that darling, but obviously it didn't go well. Besides, I love that darling to no end, but she is very much a 15-year-old with a (for a lack of a better word) girlish nature, she's not the one who'll be the best Roxie in the first place. I once said that I'd love to see Young swap her free with Eunsoo (before Young went back to her Pirates of the Carribean FS), and I still stand by that statement. Young is even younger, sure, but she has a flair for drama and all that charm, she'd make a fine Roxie (or even better, Velma, her EX is All That Jazz and she is great with it) while Eunsoo with her squirtle smile and delicate lines would make a lovely, lovely Eliza. How I wish I could have a serious talk with their coaches...

You're totally right, she would get tons and tons of comparisons but Bond would be great. With squirtle being more of a soft, gentler type of flirty than tongue-in-cheek and dramatic, I can totally envision her winking at the audience while shooting them with her finger guns. I'm not sure a tango would work for her though, she is much better with lighter music (and color as well) than darker ones. Jane Austen, now that I can get on board with, although I don't know the soundtrack of the dramatizations well enough for me to feel sure on that. (And don't worry, I first read Pride and Prejudice at 10. You're not alone.)

By Liz, you mean Liza T, right? On that I'm not so sure, squirtle hasn't got enough sass yet for that kind of a program imo. She's not a sassy person in the first place, she's a very focused, determined young lady, but still she's a sweet 9th grader. I'd rather see her do Perhaps, Perhaps, Perhaps or other songs in that line for a different direction. God, I have tons and tons of ideas for that darling, why can't I go to California and talk to Raf and the team

 

[jersey1302]

Sorry, but how was Satoko placed ahead of Liza???

You can't be serious.. Liza's program is ONLY exciting near the end when she does that fist pump while shes doing a low spread eagle. Her transitions and interpretation are not very well done in her FS. Her SP is much better. If she wants a chance at winning a world medal, she is going to have to do some serious improvements on her coreo for that free skate. Satoko's PCS is far superior to Liza.

 

[Heleng]

Caught up with ladies FS and didn’t read any of the posts here trying to stay away from spoilers (although that was rather futile since they appeared in posts during men’s FS live, which I looked at squinty-eyed and pretended I didn’t see, lol). What a great competition, the ladies really brought it! The podium finishers were phenomenal, each in their own way, bravo to all of them For me, Satoko’s FS program is in a class of its own, easily my favorite ladies program so far this season, and I hope she can correct her URs. And although she didn’t medal, I loved Mai Mihara’s performance — I think her skating skills are superb (she deserves some 9’s on that element IMO), and she has such a delightful light and effervescent style that really appeals to me. Also good for Mariah for skating so well! Her skating doesn’t really resonate w me, but that’s just personal preference, and I can see why she appeals to the judges and her fans. Finally, despite her placement, I enjoyed Kailani, and she should be proud of her effort, especially being a late substitute.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Just watched you, my little lotus blossom. You were magnificent!

 

[taikwan]

By the way, anyone knows more info about the coverage of NHK by Ashley Wagner on the Olympic Channel? Where can we watch it and when? I saw her twitter but didn't see other details.
And is the Olympic Channel online? I entered their website and they have a Live/TV thing, is that where they will show NHK?

I've been watching all competitions on the Olympic Channel this season. First time I've heard Ashley but I think she's doing a nice job. Filtered just a bit but not afraid to call it as she sees it. I don't know if there's another way to watch other than subscribing to the O.C. which comes with my sports programming. I also enjoyed Charlie White's commentary a lot.

 

[lala34345]

I've been watching all competitions on the Olympic Channel this season. First time I've heard Ashley but I think she's doing a nice job. Filtered just a bit but not afraid to call it as she sees it. I don't know if there's another way to watch other than subscribing to the O.C. which comes with my sports programming. I also enjoyed Charlie White's commentary a lot.

It's really weird, they showed the ladies' short a few hours ago w/Ashley's commentary, but now they're showing the ladies' free with the Tanith/Johnny/Tara commentary (and it's edited so no Leonova, they pretended that Mai went right after Rika and Johnny called Mai "slow" which really pissed me off)...I wanted to hear Ashley's commentary on the free so am really disappointed that they're not playing it.