2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[JazzUp]

Sasha's SP score is over a point higher than Liza's was last week and Liza had a (bad) 3A. I think we can finally stop with the anti-Eteri conspiracy theories. Anna may have been underscored last week, but it's not going to be the norm throughout the season.

It's more like anti-sport than anti-Eteri, since this "reputation scoring" and blatant under/over-scoring did not affect Eteri's skaters only: i.e., Rika was robbed by the Russian judge (that gave her 10 points less than Medvedeva); Nastya Tarakanova got ridiculously low PCS from a judge from Iceland, etc. Now Sasha (with a clean SP) gets the same PCS as Stasya with a fall. So "we" will have to see how it goes first with 'not being the norm', I believe.

 

[karina17]

Sasha's SP score is over a point higher than Liza's was last week and Liza had a (bad) 3A. I think we can finally stop with the anti-Eteri conspiracy theories. Anna may have been underscored last week, but it's not going to be the norm throughout the season.

We might have to wait and see. Last week, if there was a reason for Anna to get lowballed, it was because she was competing against an experienced senior with three 3As who could match her in TES. Sasha's biggest competitor at Nepela was probably either Kaori or Stasya, both of whom don't have 3As or quads (and they both took themselves out with the short programs), so there was no actual point in keeping her scores low if they knew she'd win anyway. I think Alyona going up against Liza at Finlandia will give us a bigger indicator of how they'll give scores out, because if they lowball Alyona's PCS for Liza then that would be even more of a crime.

 

[andromache]

It's more like anti-sport than anti-Eteri, since this "reputation scoring" and blatant under/over-scoring did not affect Eteri's skaters only: i.e., Rika was robbed by the Russian judge (that gave her 10 points less than Medvedeva); Nastya Tarakanova got ridiculously low PCS from a judge from Iceland, etc. Now Sasha (with a clean SP) gets the same PCS as Stasya with a fall. So "we" will have to see how it goes first with 'not being the norm', I believe.

You really care that much about ridiculously low PCS from ONE judge? Maybe they didn't like Tarakanova's skating/program for whatever reason. It happens. That is why there are SEVERAL judges. Each of them has different opinions and perspectives, and as a group, they balance each other out for a reasonable average score. They also drop the highest and lowest scores.

Also, are you that new to the sport? Reputation/nationalistic scoring is not new. Sometimes it helps skaters and sometimes it hurts skaters. It is unfortunate, but the continuous outrage from fans when it only hurts their favorite or heps the skater they dislike is ridiculous. But no one complains about it when it helps their faves.....

 

[JazzUp]

You really care that much about ridiculously low PCS from ONE judge?

If it were only ONE judge, though...

Also, are you that new to the sport? Reputation/nationalistic scoring is not new. Sometimes it helps skaters and sometimes it hurts skaters.

I'm not. And I'm well aware of that fact re reputation/nationalistic scoring, doesn't mean I should like it.

...but the continuous outrage from fans when it only hurts their favorite or heps the skater they dislike is ridiculous. But no one complains about it when it helps their faves.....

If you are prone to that, doesn't mean others are too.

 

[Finley]

You really care that much about ridiculously low PCS from ONE judge? Maybe they didn't like Tarakanova's skating/program for whatever reason. It happens. That is why there are SEVERAL judges. Each of them has different opinions and perspectives, and as a group, they balance each other out for a reasonable average score. They also drop the highest and lowest scores.

Also, are you that new to the sport? Reputation/nationalistic scoring is not new. Sometimes it helps skaters and sometimes it hurts skaters. It is unfortunate, but the continuous outrage from fans when it only hurts their favorite or heps the skater they dislike is ridiculous. But no one complains about it when it helps their faves.....

I don't think it's fair to assume someone is new to the sport or cares to much just because they state a fact that supports the point they are trying to make. More often than not posters get called out for not supporting their statements with facts.

I know I am guilty of only speaking up in support of my favorite most of the time. Anna was a notable exception. She is not my favorite but her scores felt so wrong to me in comparison with one of her competitors I just couldn't help it.

Being an ice dancing fan almost broke me of caring about scores in FS. It's like the judges and feds are going to do what they are going to do and everyone can live with it or die from it. Posting about it is a lot like screaming into the wind. But the only way anything changes is people speaking up and pointing out the things that are unfair. It matters.

Last season when my favorite and her scores got roasted from to time in this thread I mostly stayed out of it. It was a a lot of - "Under rotated! Over Scored! Undeserved! Losing her jumps! Terrible technique!" Literally every other skater was 'a breath of fresh air' except Alina. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I have a right to not enjoy those opinions.

Everyone's faves get undeserved marks and unfair criticism. And that is a knife that cuts both ways. But it is a big ask to expect fans to chime in and join the fray against their fave. Personally, I think the critics have it covered.

 

[andromache]

If you are prone to that, doesn't mean others are too.

I'm sure I am! However, at least I will recognize it and admit it when it happens. I know I have biases toward my favorites, but I can tell when they are getting scored on reputation versus on what they deserve. Meanwhile, I see people pretending their faves get no reputation scoring whatsoever but then complaining when other skaters get it.

Fact is, this is the Russian ladies thread. ALL RUSSIAN LADIES GET REPUTATION SCORING. By being from a big, powerful federation that is known for its strong ladies, all of these skaters are automatically perceived very positively by the judges. And this isn't exclusive to Russia - US and Canada get it too because they are big federations. Russian ladies who have been seniors longer and with World and Olympics medals get an additional benefit! Even first-year seniors get a reputation boost if they were very successful juniors, because the judges already know they have good reputations.

I understand wanting to complain about it! I also complain about it! But the level of conspiracy-theorizing that has gone on since one event in which Anna was underscored has blown me away.

 

[el henry]

......


If you are prone to that, doesn't mean others are too.

@andromache? Endless outrage?

If everyone showed the same level of “outrage” that @andromache shows, the Russian Ladies thread would be a much better off. :thumbsup: A very calm and reasoned discussion rather than “oh my God my fav was underscored, oh my God it’s an Eville AntiRussian Konspiracy”.

Not that anyone here would post that, but those types of posts are most profitably skipped over.

 

[nussnacker]

Saying there's a weird judging on certain events or pointing out nationalistic bias in judging isn't equal to making conspiracy theories or should I say

Eville AntiRussian Konspiracy

 

[andromache]

Anyway, as for the skating....

I was pretty disappointed to see Sasha do a costume change. It looked very awkward and forced, and didn't add much to the program. Anna's is so effortless and fun and inspired! If every girl is doing a costume change, then it kind of stops being special. I hope they decide to take this bit out of Sasha's SP.

 

[Canadianskatingfan]

Anyway, as for the skating....

I was pretty disappointed to see Sasha do a costume change. It looked very awkward and forced, and didn't add much to the program. Anna's is so effortless and fun and inspired! If every girl is doing a costume change, then it kind of stops being special. I hope they decide to take this bit out of Sasha's SP.

Sasha doesn’t need a gimmick. She has all her quads.

 

[karina17]

I feel the same about the costume change. It seemed a little underwhelming in terms of placement with the music and the mechanism used. The audience was quite reactive in general and cheered for everything, but they didn't even react to the costume change, and that says a lot.

This has nothing to do with Sasha herself, who had an amazing performance, but the costume change honestly felt so unneccessary for that program and looked like it was thrown in after the choreography was finished. It didn't fit the music very well (imo it would make more sense to change the dress right before the crescendo, not right when the music changes and it's still very soft). And this might just be me, but at test skates the program felt like two different programs performed one right after the other, and the dress change only made that disjointed feeling stronger. They could also have given her a better dress. Anna's mechanism had her dress flowing down gradually, and it looked great. Sasha literally had to stop and yank her dress down. It looked very clunky and I don't think it does her any favours in terms of interpretation.

 

[andromache]

Sasha doesn’t need a gimmick. She has all her quads.

I mean, none of the girls NEED a gimmick. They each have something special about them that no one else has. But Anna's moment in her LP just feels magical, the dress flows down, it fits the music, etc. It feels gimmicky now that someone else is doing it less effectively.

 

[JazzUp]

Even first-year seniors get a reputation boost if they were very successful juniors, because the judges already know they have good reputations.

PCS given to Anya and Sasha say otherwise.

I understand wanting to complain about it! I also complain about it! But the level of conspiracy-theorizing that has gone on since one event in which Anna was underscored has blown me away.

as nussnacker said:

Saying there's a weird judging on certain events or pointing out nationalistic bias in judging isn't equal to making conspiracy theories

 

[Edwin]

I felt the small gimmick with the front of Aleksandra's dress looked bad too.

Eteri Georgiyevna will probably evaluate the 'trick' in one or two competitions, before deciding to cut that false front off the dress, and perhaps add a slightly larger 'skirt' like part to cover Aleksandra's crotch when she does that cantilever.

 

[JazzUp]

Sasha literally had to stop and yank her dress down. It looked very clunky and I don't think it does her any favours in terms of interpretation.

It feels gimmicky now that someone else is doing it less effectively.

Give Sasha some time to work on it, she might do it better, without disrupting the flow of her programme, next time.

 

[karina17]

Give Sasha some time to work on it, she might do it better, without disrupting the flow of her programme, next time.

I don't think it's so much Sasha's execution that's the issue, it's really just the choreography that makes it all seem so awkward. Maybe the dress was messed up today and that's why she had to pull it out and yank it over herself like that, but even if that's true, the placement of the dress change still feels very weird in the choreography. Anna had a whole dramatic choreographed moment where her dress gracefully flowed down mid-spin timed to the build-up of the music, then jumped up in her new dress to the accent of the music. Sasha was not given a well-thought-out moment like that. The dress felt like an afterthought to me, like they decided to have a costume change after the choreography was done and they had to insert it in afterwards, without much success.

 

[Resa]

I didn't even recognise a costume change. I need to rewatch the program it seems

 

[flanker]

Sasha's SP score is over a point higher than Liza's was last week and Liza had a (bad) 3A. I think we can finally stop with the anti-Eteri conspiracy theories. Anna may have been underscored last week, but it's not going to be the norm throughout the season.

On one hand I thank you for admitting that our point about Anna being undersored was right, on the other I must express my concern that it probably still seems OK to you if that "is not going to be the norm throughout the season." First, we don't even know what will be the norm throughout the season, second, the fact that Sasha wasn't undersored so blatantly as Anna doesn't mean that anyone should accept what happened at Lombardia Trophy.

-

As for Sasha - from this (awful) angle of view we have seen the skate, I wouldn't dare to judge the effect of costume change at all. To be honest, all skating looked different when you doesn't properly see the legs, steps, distance from the ice during jumps etc. Wait with your funeral talks when you have some better video at your disposal.

 

[Artemisa]

That I can agree with. If she lands her quads, she’ll be unbeatable. But PCS is a different story and I believe that’s what the discussion about.

The problem is that the judges will follow the 4 if she lands them clean

 

[ruga]

I also thought that Sasha's dress change was unnecessary. Greyish white goes well with both pieces and there's not much of a contrast because the pieces are from Peer Gynt as compared to Anna's program where without the dress the music change would be bit weird. And Sasha's transformation looked awkward as well. I initially thought that something was bothering her so she decided to fix it.