2020-21 Japanese Nationals: Men's Short Program

[Ichatdelune]

Goddamnit I thought that 4S was about to be saved but no :gaah: :gaah:

But he didn't implode as he's wont to do when he skates last and I still love him

 

[Skatesocs]

Yusheng Jiexian in 1st, Keyyama Yujin in 2nd, Uno Changma in 3rd. Cool cool.

 

[Skatefan15]

Anyway, why didn’t Yuzu’s spin after the axel count?!

 

[auser]

A few minutes until it turns Christmas for me. But Santa has already delivered my present by letting me watch skating with fellow GSers. Thanks
for making my holiday more fun during Covid lockdown. Special thanks to gsk8(Paula) for making it possible.

 

[cohkaix]

Protocol: https://www.jsfresults.com/National/2020-2021/fs_j/nationalsenior/data0103.pdf

Didn't watch the last 2 groups...so, why is the spin invalid?

 

[MaiKatze]

I really missed Yuzuru looking like he has fun out there. In the last few season I didn't get that feeling. Lmey fits him so well, the costume is really cool, as well. He was smiling so much....I still cannot believe he is skating to Robbie Williams.....wow! I hope he doesn't ditch the program for next season, because I doubt there will be Worlds this year and it would be such a shame if that were the first/last time we saw it!

 

[treblemakerem]

Protocol: https://www.jsfresults.com/National/2020-2021/fs_j/nationalsenior/data0103.pdf

Didn't watch the last 2 groups...so, why is the spin invalid?

Just rewatched it and I’m not sure but might be because he doesn’t hold positions long enough in the forward sit. I think that’s required. He comes up and back down to change positions.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Just rewatched it and I’m not sure but might be because he doesn’t hold positions long enough in the forward sit. I think that’s required. He comes up and back down to change positions.

Haven’t rewatched it but sounds like that may be the case. One of those annoying CoP semantics at work again. He clearly did a very good spin but nope, 0 points, because reasons.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Nice skate by Yuzuru! It’s a bit silly that his spin was invalidated because of the sit spin twizzle before it but given the GOE gifts for some of his landings (the +4s on the quads and +5 on the 3A which were clearly not effortless). It was great to see this LGC side of him again instead of another classical program. Lots of potential in this SP!

Shoma’s SP the music I can’t quite get on board with but it’s different, and the program gets better in the second half. The toe combo was a shame but more of a shame was that PCS which should not have been 46 with a splat, even at Nationals and even with everything else sublime. It looks like he is regaining his form though and is happy with Lambiel.

Kagiyama was wonderful - very clean, neat skating. He really needs to express the character of the music more but I appreciate him doing an unconventional SP (all the top 3 guys really!).

I can’t really expect much given training and performing during a pandemic is not easy but there were some really costly errors but overall the quality of skating was great even with mistakes.

 

[HKSZYU]

Invalidating the spin on a technicality is so dumb. It was clearly a very well done spin. Yuzuru's score should be 4 points higher and it'll be such a shame if that ends up costing him.

 

[Skatesocs]

Well don't let's all rush to take this stuff about how funny someone is or isn't elsewhere. People might want to discuss the skating, we don't want that.

 

[lzxnl]

Just rewatched it and I’m not sure but might be because he doesn’t hold positions long enough in the forward sit. I think that’s required. He comes up and back down to change positions.

I think Yuzuru intended what appeared to be a back sit to just be a transition, and maybe the judges treated that as his combination sit spin? Then, because it looked like it 'failed', they didn't give him credit for the actual sit spin?

The same thing happened with Koshiro Shimada; he does an illusion spin as a step and not as a spin, and his final actual camel spin is invalidated. I don't know if you're meant to judge this way, but it's a little unfair for the skaters.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Protocol: https://www.jsfresults.com/National/2020-2021/fs_j/nationalsenior/data0103.pdf

Didn't watch the last 2 groups...so, why is the spin invalid?

Likely the sit twizzle leading into it. It’s silly in that the intended spin came later but a sit twizzle isn’t exactly distinct from a sit spin either. It’ll be amended in future for sure.

 

[Skatesocs]

I think Yuzuru intended what appeared to be a back sit to just be a transition, and maybe the judges treated that as his combination sit spin? Then, because it looked like it 'failed', they didn't give him credit for the actual sit spin?

The same thing happened with Koshiro Shimada; he does an illusion spin as a step and not as a spin, and his final actual camel spin is invalidated. I don't know if you're meant to judge this way, but it's a little unfair for the skaters.

That shouldn't happen.

I'd need to rewatch, but Hanyu's transition into the spin was a bit off-balance. Maybe that affected it somehow?

 

[HKSZYU]

I agree that it’s a bit unfair but rules are rules. Unless otherwise stated, attempts at elements fill up that box (eg small leaps and jumps are allowed in step sequences and aren’t counted as one of your jumping passes, and the rules state that).

What if a skater went into their back sit spin and lost centering and it turned into a twizzle and then they decided to attempt it again, as if the first attempt never happened.

I think in this case it was mistaken as a spin attempt because the movement going into the twizzle made it look like he was going into a back sit, so the tech specialist marked it as such.

I don't see how something that traveled as much as that twizzle could possibly be mistaken for a spin attempt.

Generally speaking I quite like CoP, but I find it frustrating when even people like us who are super invested and familiar with the sport can't figure out the judging. It makes the sport less fun to watch.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

From the Handbook: “A Spin that has no basic position with 2 revolutions will receive no Level and no value, however a spin with less than three rotations is considered as a skating movement and not a spin.”

So the movement was considered a spin because it was for 3 rotations but the sit position wasn’t held for 2 of those three rotations.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I got the biggest kick watching Hanyu skate to Let Me Entertain You. He's so devoted to performance and entertaining viewers it is kismet that he should skate to that song.

 

[yume]

That invalited spin is some bs.

I must be the only one that find unfair that Sota and Kazuki finished behind Keiji. At least Sota is in last group.

 

[Skatesocs]

I must be the only one that find unfair that Sota and Kazuki finished behind Keiji.

No you're not.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't see how something that traveled as much as that twizzle could possibly be mistaken for a spin attempt.

Generally speaking I quite like CoP, but I find it frustrating when even people like us who are super invested and familiar with the sport can't figure out the judging. It makes the sport less fun to watch.

Lol, some of my spins travel so much that they could be mistaken for twizzle attempts!

I think it was the sit position, and immediately doing the spin after that that caused the box to be taken up. Had it been a sit twizzle in the middle of footwork for example I don’t think the issue would have occurred. I mean simple solution is to put that transition later on (like how Ice dancers introduce extra lifts and spins that are “invalidated” because they’ve already done those elements) or just take it out.