2020-21 Japanese Nationals: Men's Short Program | Page 15 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Japanese Nationals: Men's Short Program

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Just watched it - Yuzu was brilliant under any circumstances, given its his first competition since 4CC and he's been without a coach by his side for all that time, practicising at night on his own... the man is a marvel.

And we told you he can be sexy :biggrin: Now the Japanese piece tomorrow...
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
That invalited spin is some bs.

I must be the only one that find unfair that Sota and Kazuki finished behind Keiji. At least Sota is in last group.
I actually thought this was Keiji’s best SP in a long time (save for tripling the quad). Sota is a lovely skater but I think Tomono should have been in the final group and is underrated. To some extent Sota is too but Tomono’s at least going for greater difficulty.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Shoma GOEs were galactic. PCS too despite the fall.
Yuma, freshly senior, would have broken 100 with a 3T. And 2 years back he only had a semi-consistent 3A....
 

HKSZYU

Spectator
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Lol, some of my spins travel so much that they could be mistaken for twizzle attempts! 😜

I think it was the sit position, and immediately doing the spin after that that caused the box to be taken up. Had it been a sit twizzle in the middle of footwork for example I don’t think the issue would have occurred. I mean simple solution is to put that transition later on (like how Ice dancers introduce extra lifts and spins that are “invalidated” because they’ve already done those elements.
For sure. I understand what you're saying, and I think you're right. I just think there should be some nuance to judging. Anyone familiar with the sport would know that the movement preceding the spin was a twizzle, not a spin attempt. Even if, by some interpretation of the rules one could consider it a spin attempt, within context, I would hope any competent judge should be able to discern that it wasn't.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I think Shoma never looked better. Switzerland has done wonders for him. That fall was purely mental. A great skate!!
Very much this - exactly what I was saying earlier, despite some people being confused. He is in great shape and exuding quite a sexy energy, the quad mistake just seemed like a bit of concentration loss or getting back into the feel of competition. The technique isn’t the absolute best, but he had good lift on the jumps and looks like he will reliably rotate them. He’s making good strides with getting back to a consistent place technically, while carving out his own style as a performer.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Isn't there some way to change the protocols after that kind of mistake by TP?
I remember Capelleni/Lanotte lost some points at euros after Didier Gaillaguet went complain about a mistake they did and that wasn't noticed.
 

shyne

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
From the Handbook: “A Spin that has no basic position with 2 revolutions will receive no Level and no value, however a spin with less than three rotations is considered as a skating movement and not a spin.”

So the movement was considered a spin because it was for 3 rotations but the sit position wasn’t held for 2 of those three rotations.
by this rule, twizzles with more than 3 rotations should not be allowed in the transition?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Shoma GOEs were galactic. PCS too despite the fall.
Yuma, freshly senior, would have broken 100 with a 3T. And 2 years back he only had a semi-consistent 3A....
Tbh though, so were Hanyu’s jump GOE. I’m sure some people thought the low score was due to imperfect landings - as stated there was no way those quad passes deserved +4 if we are being objective. The quad salchow was a bit wild with the free leg and forward in the toe of the landing foot which he tried to cover with the spread eagle. The quad toe was nice but the combo 3T was a bit overrotated and landed awkwardly outside the circle. I would have given the axel a +4 but it’s not egregious, especially at Nats, to have given it a +5.

Shoma’s GOE was a bit high on the flip although the landing was very clean. The axel was nice too but GOE a bit high. And yes that PCS for a program with a fall was a joke, even for Nationals.
 

shyne

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Lol, some of my spins travel so much that they could be mistaken for twizzle attempts! 😜

I think it was the sit position, and immediately doing the spin after that that caused the box to be taken up. Had it been a sit twizzle in the middle of footwork for example I don’t think the issue would have occurred. I mean simple solution is to put that transition later on (like how Ice dancers introduce extra lifts and spins that are “invalidated” because they’ve already done those elements) or just take it out.
that's a good point.
I watched Yuzu's SP several times, the more I watch, the more I'm not sure if it's a sit twizzle transition or a failed sit spin attempt. The reason I'm on the side of "this is part of the transition" is b/c the twizzle was right on the music to every beat.
I'm sure he will change the transition after this event.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
by this rule, twizzles with more than 3 rotations should not be allowed in the transition?
Based on the rules I think a twizzle with more than 2 rotations would be considered a spin attempt. I think the issue here is because of the sit position it looked as though a basic position was being attempted.

No need for folks to lose their minds over a couple lost points too. He’s still comfortably in the lead, and was given pretty good GOE everywhere else, and excellent PCS (honestly if people are outraged at 47 not being a 48 or 49, for a debut program with imperfect landings, I don’t know what to tell you...or rather I do but I probably shouldn’t say it lol).
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Watched only the top five performances because of the time difference and uncertainty of availability of live streams (in this respect, the Russians have chosen a great path for this particular season).

Sato is still very much a junior skater, I realized he was doing Pirates only when the most iconic Jack Sparrow music came on close to mid point of the program. Nothing in the choreo suggested it before that. The swashbuckling in the steps looked clumsy and uncommitted - the moves were glued on and he kind of remembered to do them. No expression to support the executed movement. I think I've seen he has been injured so maybe partly lack of training, but I also managed to see him in the junior worlds in Tallinn and he was not much good in the performance department back then either.

The second season of HipHip ChinChin with Tanaka and he still looks like he is doing lesson 5 for beginners in Latin ballroom.

The whole top 5 had upbeat tempo pieces of music and Shoma had probably the fastest beat. Not even attempting to skate to a beat is one of my pet peeves and truly made it tough to watch Shoma trying to do this. The energy just was not there at all. Also, after all the discussions about cultural appropriation and exploitation, I wonder how this program managed to survive?

Kagiyama was better in handling the rhythm. The choreo actually changed with the changes in the rhythm, he was actullay skating to the rhythm. However, from the waist up he is still a junior skater, not a whole lot going on with his upper body movement. But he might develop into a pretty good skater. Clearly my favorite of these five.

And then Hanyu. He has never been one of my favorites - a bit like Kolyada, he certainly has the elements down, but the things between and esp. his complete lack of controlled and working upper body and arms makes the adoration his performances get somewhat hard to understand. I was curious to see how this new program would look like after the mild hype about different vibes and all, but have to say, it was a rehash of the Prince SP and not a very good one at that. In just about all of his SPs, the start is usually slow (and this worked with Let's Go Crazy) and relatively empty of choreo/performance, but this music cut did not accommodate this trait at all. The rhythm was relentless from the first moment on and yet the choreo allowed Hanyu to skate it as he usually does, slowly and mostly unexpressively. The cliched mime and posturing to accents in the music were mostly embarrassing. The end was a bit better in unison of the movement and music, but not much. Lack of competition could account for some of the mismatch, but with only one other possible competition to come, I am not holding my breath for great development. Also thought that the lack of running edge from his quads was quite noticeable. The 3A was the only really wow jump.

E
 

figureskatingandrainbows

As Kao Miura once said, スケートって難しい
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Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Country
Olympic
It was *almost* perfect from Yuma and Yuzu. Yuzuru's jumps were a bit sloppy, and Yuma turned a triple toe into a double toe, but their step sequences were on point. Yuma seemed petrified going out on the ice, but after landing his jumps, really seemed to relax. That end step sequence was *chef's kiss*.
 
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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
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France
I watched it again and that was a ridiculous call. He was clearly doing a twizzle and there’s nothing that says a clear twizzle with more than 2 rotations should be considered a spin. Stepanova/Bukin do those sit position twizzles that cover little distance all the time and there is never any confusion. A regular twizzle with more than 2 rotations could be considered an upright spin attempt by that logic, but it never is. It’s pretty obvious to see when someone is trying to start a spin, the attempt to stay in one spot on the ice, rather than covering distance as you do for a twizzle. If someone really is trying to do a spin and somehow messes it up and miraculously turns into a seamless twizzle, then good on them, and so what.

The Level 3 on his Flying Camel also doesn't make sense. There were four features in the spin, I looked closely and he held the donut position for 8 revolutions. The other features were difficult flying entrance and upside down position.
 

invisiblespiral

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
This is an extremely random question, but Kagiyama's SP music sounds really familiar. What is it and who else has skated to it? :scratch2:
 
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