2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[AshWagsFan]

What she did with Sotskova and Tsurskaya is also a wonder of a kind...

Really sad, I miss Tsurskaya...

 

[jhcorb01]

Yeah it kind of makes you go hmmm. I doubt there will be problems as we know Brian is her secondary coach now.

Buyonova said Brian is her primary coach. Please stop spreading misinformation.

 

[Scott512]

Well, as it is likely that the season will never happen. Maybe this is a GOOD thing that we will have more Russian internal competitions. Think of the possibilities. Moscow championships, Sankt Petersburg Championships, Samara championships, Vladivostok championships, Novosibirsk championships etc...

Maybe we will see all our Russian girls competing more

We might see a lot more of Shcherbakova, Zagitova, Kostornaia, Trusova, Sinitsyna, Nugumanova, Gubanova, Tuktamysheva, Tsibinova, Talalaykina, Sakhanovich, Konstantinova, Medvedeva, Tarakanova, Gulyakova, Leonova, Samodurova, Gracheva, Shulskaya, Sidorova, Kolomiets, Deyneko, Mikryukova, Shevchenko, Tumanova, Sheveleva, Belousova, Starodubtseva, Monich, Budzko, Mostenets etc etc... and maybe the juniors will turn up too!! Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh, Frolova and so on...

Bring it on RusFed!!!:luv17: If anyone can turn this strange season into a golden RusFest it is you!!!

And as someone said, watching the Russian ladies is like watching the GPs, Euros and Worlds anyway...

And I forgot Sotskova - shame on me!

Why cancel the season that starts in October and ends in early December in July? It's possible but perhaps on likely that things will improve significantly with covid-19 in the next 2 months.
But more internal competitions in Russia with or without fans for the little ladies would be sensational had a great plan B to not having a normal season.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

for the most part that's going to put yet another skater from a big skating country at the competition, and the chances of a skater from a smaller skating country getting into the top 5 or medaling would be much less likely.

World champion is a world champion, that is his/her title, not the country he/she is coming from. Being that a big or a small country is not important, because that someone doesn't represent the country in first place, but the world (championship competition). So that is not one more quota place for some country, but only for an individual who is the current World Champion.

 

[Scott512]

Buyonova said Brian is her primary coach. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Oh I know Brian is Zhenyas coach I was talking about Rika because someone else mentioned her. I'm just pointing out if Brian is rika's second coach and Zhenyas number one coach.

 

[Mathman]

I was talking specifically about Alina, as a current World Champion. She is not hurt by the age limit rule, but you can claim she is hurt by the other rules, like for not being 'allowed' to defend her title by being a current world champion or by some other rules which are not part of ISU, but they exist in majority of other sports in the world. So you can claim with a lot of reasonable arguments she is 'hurt' by some other things which exist or don't exist in 'ISU rules'.

To me, this is complete nonsense. Alina must follow the same rules as everyone else. She is not being disadvantaged at all by any ISU rule. If she wants to go to Worlds, well, everyone does. Let her compete like everyone else. The ISU has never had any rule that says last year's world champion automatically gets special consideration compared to those who want to be be this year's champion. Each figure skating season is a stand-alone entity. Figure Skating does not have, and has never had, a notion of "defending your championship." I don't see how anyone can complain, poor Alina, she has to follow the same rules as everyone else.

 

[Mathman]

World champion is a world champion, that is his/her title, not the country he/she is coming from. Being that a big or a small country is not important, because that someone doesn't represent the country in first place, but the world (championship competition).

Alina is the 2018-2019 world champion. No ISU rule can take that away. There is no 2019 World Champion, due to cancellation of the event. Who will be the 2020-2021 champion? We don't know. Who will be the 2021-2022 champion? We'll see.

Individual skaters are not members of the ISU. The members of the ISU are National Federations. Each member has the same rights and must follow the same rules as every other member. There is no provision in the structure of the ISU for an "at large" individual who does not represent a National Federation.

 

[lesnar001]

I agree with what Mathman is saying.
I'm a huge fan of Alina, and I don't want to see her getting some sort of "bye" to the world championships.

If she skates well enough during the regular season, then she can earn her way onto the world team by whatever criteria Russia uses.
Something tells me that Alina wouldn't want a "free pass" to Worlds either.

 

[JazzUp]

Something tells me that Alina wouldn't want a "free pass" to Worlds either.

Alina sort of mentioned that herself on national tv last December when she said she wants to be selected to the national team only based on sporting principles, so yes, she doesn't want "a free pass" to any competition.

 

[JazzUp]

She wasn't hurt.
...
All this hand-wringing about how the ISU is picking on Eteri skaters -- I don't see it.

Guess you must have missed the 'Zagitova rule'... Or are you seriously saying that it was not specifically designed to curb and restrain Alina and other Eteri skaters that could backload their programmes?

 

[Alex65]

I agree with what Mathman is saying.
I'm a huge fan of Alina, and I don't want to see her getting some sort of "bye" to the world championships.

If she skates well enough during the regular season, then she can earn her way onto the world team by whatever criteria Russia uses.
Something tells me that Alina wouldn't want a "free pass" to Worlds either.

For me, the “right to defend a title” is a good rule. Many other sports have it, and nowhere else has it done worse. If the champion does not want / cannot, he has the right to refuse.)

 

[TallyT]

Guess you must have missed the 'Zagitova rule'... Or are you seriously saying that it was not specifically designed to curb and restrain Alina and other Eteri skaters that could backload their programmes?

It was deigned to curb backloading, certainly, but could Alina's fans take a leaf out of her book and stop whining that "tain't faaaaiir"? As I understand it, she only did the backloading because of a previous ruling giving a bonus for it that was designed to stop the then problematic frontloading and supposedly to encourage a balanced program. That Eteri found a way to legitimately exploit it is all credit to her, but when she did... it no longer served the purpose for which it was designed. It certainly was never some god-given right engraved in the annals of posterity.

What the ISU (who are currently in my all-level-of-hells-and-I-hope-they-fry-there black book, so I cannot believe I am saying this) giveth, the ISU then tooketh away. No one has banned backloading, they've just stopped rewarding it so much.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

While I agree that Alina wouldn't have wanted a free pass, last year the situation in the Russian ladies field was so insane, that I was hoping for some recognition from ISU of these extraordinary circumstances. We had three spectacular World Champions - Alina, Evgenia and Liza - all of them young and in top form, who had no chance of qualifying because of three spectacular debutants. So, I was hoping that ISU would recognise the benefit for the Championship of having these ladies on the ice and would invite at least the reigning World Champion. Of course, this rule would apply to all disciplines and years, so other skaters and countries could benefit from it. One additional skater wouldn't break the system, but the value would be tremendous. The situation was extraordinary. Alina, being the elegant person she is, chose the solution of the elegant retreat.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

It was deigned to curb backloading, certainly, but could Alina's fans take a leaf out of her book and stop whining that "tain't faaaaiir"? As I understand it, she only did the backloading because of a previous ruling giving a bonus for it that was designed to stop the then problematic frontloading and supposedly to encourage a balanced program. That Eteri found a way to legitimately exploit it is all credit to her, but when she did... it no longer served the purpose for which it was designed. It certainly was never some god-given right engraved in the annals of posterity.

What the ISU (who are currently in my all-level-of-hells-and-I-hope-they-fry-there black book, so I cannot believe I am saying this) giveth, the ISU then tooketh away. No one has banned backloading, they've just stopped rewarding it so much.

For me, backloading all the jumps was like a fair but not elegant way of getting points. It’s like getting all the free samples you find at a store multiple times and ask for more - it’s allowed, but it’s not the most beautiful way of getting points. I mean, it was a hole they found in the rules, but mostly because the ISU never thought someone would fully backload a program.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

While I agree that Alina wouldn't have wanted a free pass, last year the situation in the Russian ladies field was so insane, that I was hoping for some recognition from ISU of these extraordinary circumstances. We had three spectacular World Champions - Alina, Evgenia and Liza - all of them young and in top form, who had no chance of qualifying because of three spectacular debutants. So, I was hoping that ISU would recognise the benefit for the Championship of having these ladies on the ice and would invite at least the reigning World Champion. Of course, this rule would apply to all disciplines and years, so other skaters and countries could benefit from it. One additional skater wouldn't break the system, but the value would be tremendous. The situation was extraordinary. Alina, being the elegant person she is, chose the solution of the elegant retreat.

That’s why I think the ISU should have extra spots according to season’s best at Worlds.


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

 

[Autumn Leaves]

For me, backloading all the jumps was like a fair but not elegant way of getting points. It’s like getting all the free samples you find at a store multiple times and ask for more - it’s allowed, but it’s not the most beautiful way of getting points. I mean, it was a hole they found in the rules, but mostly because the ISU never thought someone would fully backload a program.

For me, it was an athletic feat and a splendid performance. There is a reason why skaters are front loading and why there is a bonus for jumps in the second part - they are much more difficult and risky on tired legs. The more important aspect was that the backloading in this specific program worked perfectly well, because it corresponded to the music and the final galore. The tension was gradually increasing and the jumps were like fireworks at the end. So, I didn't find that specific program unbalanced, because the jumps were so well integrated in the music and the performance. Evenly distributed jumps do not necessarily mean balance; it is important what the program is. Probably many programs would have looked awkward with backloaded jumps, but not Alina's Don Quixote.

 

[zounger]

It was deigned to curb backloading, certainly, but could Alina's fans take a leaf out of her book and stop whining that "tain't faaaaiir"?

No one is whining here, let's not make impressions. As with the previous occasion of similar matter that all the people say Alina has great SS, here again only one person expressed such opinion (it was not exactly like this but for argument sake, let's say it was). Alina doesn't need any favorable treatment, never had, neither she wants. She explicitly said doesn't want either need any special treatment on the national team selection.

 

[lesnar001]

I agree with Autumn Leaves about Alina's DQ program.
Although some may also say it was "unbalanced", which is fine by me, because that is all a matter of opinion.

But I never liked the term "gaming the system" or "loophole" - because that usually implies a way to make a task easier.
And backloading doesn't make the task easier in my opinion.

Of course we could argue "If this was an artistic vision and not a point grab, why don't we see it anymore?"
But maximizing points is the what a skater needs to do to win.
And since it could be very risky (Alina 2018 Worlds), the reward is not high enough anymore for the risk.

If artistic vision was the only concern then I would much rather see a long spiral sequence than an ungainly looking Euler type combo in a program.
But no one is going to throw all those points away just to satisfy what I want to see.

 

[Shayuki]

If a program's unbalanced, penalize that in PCS. IMO getting more TES at the cost of PCS should be perfectly viable a strategy for a skater to choose.

As usual, what it comes down to is ISU's judges' incompetent judging. Rule changes wouldn't even be necessary if they just judged properly.

 

[TallyT]

And backloading doesn't make the task easier in my opinion.

I repeat, no one is stopping the skaters from still back-loading if they want to do so just because they believe it makes a better program or fits their vision or what they want to achieve. It's not banned. They just don't get the extra points, that were not granted for years before the first change, for doing so.