2021 Worlds: Men's' Free Skate

[Minz]

(Adding on, not to you) I think it's important to recognize that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's wrong or bad. I don't like red lipstick; that doesn't mean that wearing red lipstick is wrong.

EXACTLY.

 

[Skatefan15]

I’m confused. For his sake, I would be more thankful if he puts his health before his skating.

I am sorry, I misspoke. I meant to say he used to value his skating over his health (like at COC 2014). Sorry for the misunderstanding I totally meant that I’m happy he values his health over his skating now.

 

[Skatefan15]

The way people seem to think that you can do all the fancy tricks that Nathan does (not even including the jumps) without good edge quality just proves that some people here have never stepped on the ice.

I’m not sure if this is about me (and others) criticizing Nathan’s SS and PCS (eh probably is lol). But I’m 18 and have been skating since I was 6, so I do know that you need to have some type of edge quality to complete moves in skating (however I have seen some skaters manage to do elements and such without much edge quality). My main problem is him outscoring Jason, Shoma, Keegan, and Mikhail in PCS, or rather just those four being underscored (I would’ve been mad about their scores whether Nathan was here or not). I’m just comparing because Nathan is the one at this competition with the highest PCS, and by a significant amount at that. I appreciate his technical strength but I just can’t see him as far ahead of the field in PCS as he was yesterday, or whatever day it was

 

[el henry]

I’m not sure if this is about me (and others) criticizing Nathan’s SS and PCS (eh probably is lol). But I’m 18 and have been skating since I was 6, so I do know that you need to have some type of edge quality to complete moves in skating (however I have seen some skaters manage to do elements and such without much edge quality). My main problem is him outscoring Jason, Shoma, Keegan, and Mikhail in PCS, or rather just those four being underscored (I would’ve been mad about their scores whether Nathan was here or not). I’m just comparing because Nathan is the one at this competition with the highest PCS, and by a significant amount at that. I appreciate his technical strength but I just can’t see him as far ahead of the field in PCS as he was yesterday, or whatever day it was

This.

Unfortunately PCS is compared across skaters. It doesn't matter if Nathan deserved his PCS scores, he may have. He did not deserve PCS higher scores than some other skaters in the competition.

Nathan had an amazing skate and would have won no matter what. so why not calibrate the PCS?

And this has diddly boop to do with the “kind“ of skating one prefers, (if I had a nickel for all the mischaracterizations of Jason’s style of skating as some sort of wild extrovert, I’d have a lot of nickels) but the PCS scores.

nothing to do with disrespecting Nathan, it has to do with correctly assessing the other skaters.

 

[4everchan]

so how does one correctly assess skaters who did have mistakes in their performances? I am sorry but i do not believe that mistakes in a program shouldn't influence the PCS... botched jumps, wrong edges etc can lower skating skills and transitions... interpretation, composition and performance also will be affected with any kind of mistake. As a matter of fact, there is a mandatory cap on PCS for major mistakes already. I would think that less obvious mistakes, though they may not automatically prescribe a pcs drop would still influence judges scores. IMHO, the difference we see with Nathan's PCS for a flawless and exciting performance, and also taking into consideration his OWN qualities (look at him carefully, follow his skates: he is light and smooth, his body positions are always beautiful in the air as well as in spins, his lines are extended and elegant, etc) are totally justified for this event.

 

[karne]

Ohhhh tell me who ?? Lmao ! I want to know if I have picked up on it too.

Sigh... It's Vincent Zhou isn't it?

The guy utterly humiliated himself in front of the world, could his haters at least give him break? Goddamn.

He's the one that apparently knew he was injured and showed up to Worlds anyway, despite knowing that his result could have bearing on the Olympic spots. Not even sorry, he deserves some criticism for this one. It might be forgiveable in a non-Olympic year, but his result had an impact on more than just himself.

But it is also true that whenever he skates poorly, it then proceeds to come out afterwards that he was injured, or ill, or some other factor that was not disclosed prior to the event (or that did not affect him in one part of the event). I do not doubt they're all genuine, just that maybe someone needs to have a chat with him about timing. I don't think I've ever heard him say, "I just had a bad day." or "It didn't feel right" or even "I don't know what went wrong". It's always something with him, and it never comes out beforehand or if he skates well.

 

[viennaskater]

Rewatching now. WTF is up with Kolyada's top?

Literally painful to look at.

He is such a handsome guy. Pretty even. I miss his early career costumes.

I miss his smile. Pity he's forgotten how to.

 

[Skatefan15]

I am sorry but i do not believe that mistakes in a program shouldn't influence the PCS... botched jumps, wrong edges etc can lower skating skills and transitions... interpretation, composition and performance also will be affected with any kind of mistake. As a matter of fact, there is a mandatory cap on PCS for major mistakes already. I would think that less obvious mistakes, though they may not automatically prescribe a pcs drop would still influence judges scores.

I agree with that first sentence, mistakes in a program should influence the PCS. In the short program though... Nathan (with a fall) got several 9.75 and 9.50 (the cap score for a skate with a major error) and got higher PCS than Jason (and basically everyone else except Yuzu...). So, if he was clean was he about to get 5 or more 10s for the short program?! Also, I know his PCS in the short weren’t ahead of Jason by much, but this is skating where every point can count (of course Nathan would’ve still won the whole event though and as he should). But Jason was clean (ish I mean the quad was under but still ) there’s no reason he shouldn’t have had the highest PCS in this event, short and long, especially with no falls.

Nathan’s technical always blows everyone out of the water, so I just wish that the judges could be more realistic with PCS (I believe this about the ladies event too). This is not an attack on Nathan but rather an assessment of his skills given his score. I’ve seen many Nathan programs in person and while I never saw this one in person obviously, I do think it was one of his best programs (just to me it deserved around a 90-91... but I’m not a judge and my opinion doesn’t affect anything lol).

Overall, the PCS in this event were a mess in every event not even counting the men (some too low like Sui/Han, Kaori, etc and some too high like Sasha, Liza, etc). So many scores might never make sense to me.

 

[4everchan]

So many scores might never make sense to me.

I just wanted to comment on that last sentence. The previous ones, some i agree with, some i am not so sure.. but hey.. that's all good..

The last sentence : yup... This, i have felt so many times... until I decided it was time to let the judges do their jobs... and for me to mostly accept that I have no control over that. What is the point getting upset? I am not the kind of guy who will write letters to the ISU to complain. So, a couple years ago, I have decided to let it go. Trust me, I enjoy it so much more than before since I have let go of grudges I had with the judging since 1988 ....

 

[Skatefan15]

I just wanted to comment on that last sentence. The previous ones, some i agree with, some i am not so sure.. but hey.. that's all good..

The last sentence : yup... This, i have felt so many times... until I decided it was time to let the judges do their jobs... and for me to mostly accept that I have no control over that. What is the point getting upset? I am not the kind of guy who will write letters to the ISU to complain. So, a couple years ago, I have decided to let it go. Trust me, I enjoy it so much more than before since I have let go of grudges I had with the judging since 1988 ....

Yeah, it’s kind of hard for me to let go of grudges (just in normal life lol). I’ve been watching skating with my mom since I was little and I’m still young now (18) but it’s just frustrating to see some of these scores. I know I have no control over it... it just makes me realize that if I’m this frustrated, I can’t even imagine how a lot of these elite athletes feel. Many work so hard just for the judges to be so harsh (Rika and Kaori come to mind). I hope that at some point figure skating can become at least a semi fair sport... but that could just be in my dreams

I love skating and I love watching skating and at this point it might just be better for me to not look at the scores at all because I just have to realize that they really just don’t make sense to me at the moment. I hope down the line they have two separate judging panels or AI judging...

 

[Olympic]

I’m not sure if this is about me (and others) criticizing Nathan’s SS and PCS (eh probably is lol). But I’m 18 and have been skating since I was 6, so I do know that you need to have some type of edge quality to complete moves in skating (however I have seen some skaters manage to do elements and such without much edge quality). My main problem is him outscoring Jason, Shoma, Keegan, and Mikhail in PCS, or rather just those four being underscored (I would’ve been mad about their scores whether Nathan was here or not). I’m just comparing because Nathan is the one at this competition with the highest PCS, and by a significant amount at that. I appreciate his technical strength but I just can’t see him as far ahead of the field in PCS as he was yesterday, or whatever day it was

You have to hate the game, not the player (Nathan). PCS has to be decoupled from TES if you want skater A w/ lower tech to have higher PCS. The judges nail them together because the same judge grades both. PCS is dragged upward by super TES under IJS.

There are also different components obviously. I agree that Jason, Shoma, and Mikhail have an edge on Nathan in SS. I am not 100% sold on Keegan. But, Nathan being the only one skating clean would probably get a bump in certain components where others made mistakes

 

[Skatefan15]

You have to hate the game, not the player (Nathan). PCS has to be decoupled from TES if you want skater A w/ lower tech to have higher PCS. The judges nail them together because the same judge grades both. PCS is dragged upward by super TES under IJS.

There are also different components obviously. I agree that Jason, Shoma, and Mikhail have an edge on Nathan in SS. I am not 100% sold on Keegan. But, Nathan being the only one skating clean would probably get a bump in certain components where others made mistakes

I agree! I really think PCS and TES should be judged by two different panels to be as fair as possible. And I definitely don’t hate Nathan, just when he’s the only one being really overscored for men (in PCS that is) it becomes very frustrating as a fan. I hate the game, just that game doesn’t really benefit many people in this current state of skating. I know that by Nathan having a clean skate it definitely upped his PCS, but I feel like that shouldn’t be the case... for any skater. Also, about Keegan’s SS, they are just spectacular in person. His knee bend is amazing and he zooms across the ice (he’s sooo speedy haha—sometimes too much). And although his free skate is a different style compared to his competitors, I think he sells it pretty well.

 

[gliese]

I’m not sure if this is about me (and others) criticizing Nathan’s SS and PCS (eh probably is lol). But I’m 18 and have been skating since I was 6, so I do know that you need to have some type of edge quality to complete moves in skating (however I have seen some skaters manage to do elements and such without much edge quality). My main problem is him outscoring Jason, Shoma, Keegan, and Mikhail in PCS, or rather just those four being underscored (I would’ve been mad about their scores whether Nathan was here or not). I’m just comparing because Nathan is the one at this competition with the highest PCS, and by a significant amount at that. I appreciate his technical strength but I just can’t see him as far ahead of the field in PCS as he was yesterday, or whatever day it was

Nope. It's about the people who act like Nathan has bad edge quality.

 

[Skatefan15]

Nope. It's about the people who act like Nathan has bad edge quality.

Yeah I don’t think he has bad edge quality at all! I’m just not sure it’s deserving of over an 8.50. But it’s not bad by any means.

 

[Olympic]

^ Keep in mind. You can drop Nathan's PCS 20 points and he still would've won comfortably

 

[viennaskater]

I keep on thinking if only Plushenko competed in Sochi in Men's singles, he would have won....

No.

 

[Skatefan15]

^ Keep in mind. You can drop Nathan's PCS 20 points and he still would've won comfortably

Yeah! That’s why I’m kind of frustrated with his score. They could’ve given him like 88-89 in PCS and he still would’ve won. Changing his PCS wouldn’t change the overall result (and it shouldn’t) but it would be more realistic which could honestly help him improve. If he gets multiple 10s in all components, what’s the point in trying to improve if you know the judges will reach you on the other end? Same goes for other skaters for edge calls (not Nathan he doesn’t have any wrong edges). I also wish that PCS scoring wouldn’t be in blocks like it is now... like if someone’s SS are meh but their performance is great, then show it! Then they’ll be driven to improve their weaker areas.

 

[TontoK]

Yeah, it’s kind of hard for me to let go of grudges (just in normal life lol). I’ve been watching skating with my mom since I was little and I’m still young now (18) but it’s just frustrating to see some of these scores. I know I have no control over it... it just makes me realize that if I’m this frustrated, I can’t even imagine how a lot of these elite athletes feel. Many work so hard just for the judges to be so harsh (Rika and Kaori come to mind). I hope that at some point figure skating can become at least a semi fair sport... but that could just be in my dreams

I love skating and I love watching skating and at this point it might just be better for me to not look at the scores at all because I just have to realize that they really just don’t make sense to me at the moment. I hope down the line they have two separate judging panels or AI judging...

As you get older, you'll realize that holding a grudge damages you more than the person you're holding the grudge against. It's unwise to get overly worked up over something as trivial as a figure skating competition.

I appreciate you are young, and have been watching skating a long time. I'm old, and I've been watching far longer. My advice is to enjoy the sport, realize there will be champions you don't enjoy, and accept that none of these people are your family. Their heartbreaks are not yours. They will learn and grow from setbacks, just as we all do when we life disappoints.

I see from another post that you, yourself, are a skater, and that gives you a different perspective than the typical fan. I accept that. But I saw skaters and coaches from many countries leap to their feet in a near empty arena to give Nathan a very strong standing ovation. They've been skating a long time, too, and I'm guessing at a higher level than you. His competitors in this event were extremely complimentary - not in an offhand "well done and congratulations" sort of way. The accolades from past champions poured in. Perhaps you might consider that you are missing something that they seemed to recognize immediately.

 

[Olympic]

One thing that makes me uncomfortable, and it may be that I am a Nathan Uber, is the hyper-focused quibbling on whether his PCS should be here or there does detract from his huge accomplishments: Undefeated record since 2018 Olympics (I think the record is Plushenko), WR scores, records on quads which is an athletic accomplishment, 3 World Championships in a row, most for an American since Scott Hamilton. I just want to make sure that is the most important part of the convo

 

[el henry]

I think that every. single. person who has talked about Nathan’s relative PCS has taken great care to give Nathan the praise he deserves for his accomplishments. I enjoyed that FS more than I have enjoyed any other Nathan skate.

I can enjoy it, and still have queries about the relative scoring. Those queries may be nitpicking to some, but hey, it‘s a figure skating board and I have opinions.