2023 NHK Trophy: Women's Thoughts?

[reader3]

Well, a real suprise from the American ladies. Kudos!

 

[rain]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but even with the mistake, I would have had Thorngren ahead of Zeigler. What Thorngren did was infinitely more difficult, since she had actual choreography, which was entirely lacking from Ziegler's skate. Thorngren needs to keep working on taking her momentum into her jumps, using it to make them big, rather than put on the brakes going into them. Zeigler was better in this sense, but her program was utterly empty and she had no visible personality on the ice. I'm not appalled or anything, but would like to see doing choreography more rewarded. It's what is missing in the women's field for the most part — interesting programs.

 

[purplecat]

Looking at the protocol you can see why Ava dominated the freeskate. She was the only one without an underrotation or q call. Every time I see Ava skate I think about the fact that I saw her mother (Patricia Mansfield) skate in person at the 2002 US Nationals and I immediately feel old!

 

[DancingCactus]

Lindsay looked slow in the free though, she was better in the short.

 

[readernick]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but even with the mistake, I would have had Thorngren ahead of Zeigler. What Thorngren did was infinitely more difficult, since she had actual choreography, which was entirely lacking from Ziegler's skate. Thorngren needs to keep working on taking her momentum into her jumps, using it to make them big, rather than put on the brakes going into them. Zeigler was better in this sense, but her program was utterly empty and she had no visible personality on the ice. I'm not appalled or anything, but would like to see doing choreography more rewarded. It's what is missing in the women's field for the most part — interesting programs.

Ava's SP is a lot better than her FS. The FS is really empty but she won on GOE and she deserved the good GOE. This panel didn't really differentiate much between different skater's PCS. A lot of the better PCS skaters had so many mistakes that took away from their performance.

I agree that Lindsay's programs are a lot more interesting, especially her SP. I think the panel likely would have given her PCS similar to Haein's in the free if she didn't fall. But, she fell so the PCS went down. Actually, it was the two time violations she got, one in the short and one in the free that cost her the gold here. If she hadn't gotten those, she would have won.

 

[Jammers]

Ava's SP is a lot better than her FS. The FS is really empty but she won on GOE and she deserved the good GOE. This panel didn't really differentiate much between different skater's PCS. A lot of the better PCS skaters had so many mistakes that took away from their performance.

I agree that Lindsay's programs are a lot more interesting, especially her SP. I think the panel likely would have given her PCS similar to Haein's in the free if she didn't fall. But, she fell so the PCS went down. Actually, it was the two time violations she got, one in the short and one in the free that cost her the gold here. If she hadn't gotten those, she would have won.

One time violation is one thing but two is inexcusable. Her coach and choreography should never have allowed that to happen.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I know, but I hope they wouldn't support her next year and place support behind Ziegler and Thoringren instead.

U.S. figure skating needs to be supportive of and fair to all their athletes. Being supportive of Starr Andrews does not negate being supportive of Ava Ziegler and Lindsay Thorngren. Plus, as @Moxiejan pointed out, Starr's international results are what earned her two GPs this season. Starr has a good sp this season, but the music choice for her FS simply does not work. I admire Starr's courage and determination as an athlete who also deals with a heart condition.

All skaters go through ups-and-downs in their careers. When skaters don't perform well, their opportunities in turn will dwindle. There's no need to pile on either Bradie Tennell or Starr Andrews. Also, I do not see anyone gushing about Starr in general threads. You brought up her name in this thread.

 

[Dreamer57]

I couldn't watch live, woke up and then

Wakaba attempted 3A in the free skate! Mai had 6 urs and a fall?
Perhaps Rino did deserve a spot, however, Yuna placed highest (top 5) amongst the host country entries.
I think it's the first NHK Trophy since 2017 without a Japanese woman on the podium. But Haein and Yelim's scores were a surprise too! This was a shakeup for the GP series.

Nina goes to GPF!! I hope she has a great experience there.
I am pleased for the podium finishers and may Lindsay and Ava rock it at nationals

 

[eppen]

This was mostly about Hana and Rion getting their GPF slots and happy to see that happen!

 

[TT_Fin]

Even I am not the biggest fan of teens, I really like Nina P and happy she got the GPF spot. Exciting to have skaters from several feds. Yuna was awesome and I wish to see her in major competitions too. Japan has just too many good skaters.

 

[Skating91]

Thorngren had rotation issues with almost every jump, but only dinged her for a q on the flip . To be second highest for PCS for that skate was not correct in my opinion.

Gubanova had a near perfect skate, the 3S was the only jump borderline but whacked her with a underrotation. Give her a q in the sequence. 8th for PCS too for a clean skate with no interruptions, a really nice program too, crowd applauded wildly they appreciated it at least.

 

[icewhite]

I like both Ava's and Lindsay's style, so I am happy to see them "growing up" in terms of senior results, too.
Not a fan of Nina, but okay. It's definitely surprising to me to have 2 Belgians in the final... and no Koreans.

I didn't see the free skate and after seeing the protocols I don't feel like I need to look at the performances. But I am excited about the final!

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I felt really bad for Haein Lee. There must've been so much pressure to make the final after her performance at Worlds, but it just wasn't enough.

Ava Ziegler was great, so much power- I assume that a lot of whether she successful or not must come down to how well she harnesses that power in the jumps? Also like her sassy performance style a lot. Also great that Lindsay Thorngren had a pretty successful skate here. The speed of her upright spin at the end of the free made me actually gasp.

Nina Pinzaronne seemed to be under rotating quite a lot of her jumps here but that was still a great result and she's in the final! I wonder if Anastasia Gubavanova is injured as the spins seem to be a problem for her sometimes.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Thorngren had rotation issues with almost every jump, but only dinged her for a q on the flip . To be second highest for PCS for that skate was not correct in my opinion.

Gubanova had a near perfect skate, the 3S was the only jump borderline but whacked her with a underrotation. Give her a q in the sequence. 8th for PCS too for a clean skate with no interruptions, a really nice program too, crowd applauded wildly they appreciated it at least.

The salchow looked under to me and she had issues with her spin levels. Plus you are not seeing the replay angle the tech panel would see anyway- the rotation issue might've been more apparent to them. There was also under rotation in one of the combos as well i believe.


In terms of PCS, I think the compostion of her programs can let her down a bit (they often feel like it's one element to another with simpler and less transitional content). And I think that was more noticable as she looked a little more restrained in the performance.

Even if she had ranked higher for PCS would it have put her any higher in the standings after that short program? In terms of actual numbers the difference wasn't that huge. Thorngren had a huge lead in the short- even if you think she should've had jumps called under rotated she'd have likely still made the podium. Gubanova didn't do anywhere near enough to make it.

 

[ManyCairns]

I really, really enjoyed Aoki. Beautiful, easy skating. A delight! And I really liked Ziegler, as well.

 

[SmileHappy34]

I watch on NBC.A tough job for the tech callers and judges to grade. All skates well except for a few setbacks.

Mai who usually skates well was affected by her injury bit her beauty style still shone .

Anastasia another lovely skate . I thought a tad underscored.
Yuna wow just lovely. A bright future in your deep Japanese field. U impressed me.

Nina another lovely skater.
I am glad u made the Senior GPF.
The flow And connection . I thought a tad underscored.

Lindsey despite fall. Wonderful skate. Nice flow connection and jumps.
Keep it up. I thought despite me ske u could have received a 130.
Ava wow congrats. U flow and connection from element to element is wonderful to watch.
I througly enjoy ur skate.

As I stated a tough job for the tech callers and judges.

Thank you

 

[moonvine]

Total triump of young challengers over the famous favorites. Like complete and utter one. This event can be used in the future as an argument in favor of young talent and how it shouldn't be put on the waiting list to uphold old champions. It might be that the next Olympic cycle is speeding up the kitchen of propping the transfers from Jr. to Senior ranks to help them to be a more obvious choice in 2026. The more results like that, the better. The two Subs, C. Kim and Thoringren, are incredible, and I would have rather seen them in GPF than Sakomoto and Hendrixx. So glad Rion made it into GPF!

I am also hoping it's the last time Andrews gets two assignments and that USFS finally starts supporting young talent. Even they can't argue with the results this season. All young American women did great. I know, it's too much to hope for, but maybe it will stem off at least a little bit of 'can Gracie...' chorus.

None of this has anything to do with USFS except who they send to Skate America, which in this case was Amber and Claire Seo. Amber has won a bronze medal on the GP circuit this year so I don't think she can be counted out yet. USFS could have sent Lindsay and Ana Maria in the place of Amber or Claire to SA. And all the young Americans did not do great - Clare did not. I'm sure they wanted Amber for hometown ticket sales and I'm guessing Claire did really well at Champs Camp. Other than that the countries who host the GP invite skaters from a list.

I doubt Starr will qualify for 2 GP assignments next year, but again, other than SA, USFS will not have anything to do with it.

I'm very against ageism in skating. Look at Deanna! Nor will I ever stop saying "But, Gracie."

 

[moonvine]

U.S. figure skating needs to be supportive of and fair to all their athletes. Being supportive of Starr Andrews does not negate being supportive of Ava Ziegler and Lindsay Thorngren. Plus, as @Moxiejan pointed out, Starr's international results are what earned her two GPs this season. Starr has a good sp this season, but the music choice for her FS simply does not work. I admire Starr's courage and determination as an athlete who also deals with a heart condition.

All skaters go through ups-and-downs in their careers. When skaters don't perform well, their opportunities in turn will dwindle. There's no need to pile on either Bradie Tennell or Starr Andrews. Also, I do not see anyone gushing about Starr in general threads. You brought up her name in this thread.

Agree 100%

 

[SmileHappy34]

Totally agree. She has done well this season coming back from injury. She is aIn her own right.

Nhk USA women of Lindsey and Ava did well.

All it does is makes nationals more interesting. Isabeau, Amber, Ava, Lindsay and the younger ones .

 

[Skater Boy]

U.S. figure skating needs to be supportive of and fair to all their athletes. Being supportive of Starr Andrews does not negate being supportive of Ava Ziegler and Lindsay Thorngren. Plus, as @Moxiejan pointed out, Starr's international results are what earned her two GPs this season. Starr has a good sp this season, but the music choice for her FS simply does not work. I admire Starr's courage and determination as an athlete who also deals with a heart condition.

All skaters go through ups-and-downs in their careers. When skaters don't perform well, their opportunities in turn will dwindle. There's no need to pile on either Bradie Tennell or Starr Andrews. Also, I do not see anyone gushing about Starr in general threads. You brought up her name in this thread.

Sadly there is no need for gushing for anyone at NHK or period. Yes, Kaori is good. But no one is bring the amazing program or amazing tricks in fact there are more issues with edges and under rotations than every. I am happy for Ziegler - nice skating as well as Lindsey but the state of skating is that two skaters who normally would struggle to make the US team are 1-2 at a Grand Prix. Not to be mean o r denigrate these skaters who are doing their best but this isn't the best time for excellent skating. Wonderful opportunity though and bravo Ava and Lindsey and Nina took it. Forget the 3A and quads; there are fewer 3-3 it seems here.