2023 Skate Canada Women's Free Skate

[lileychristie]

The best podium

 

[discodisco]

Impressed with Maddie indeed. She would have had a few more points if she didn't skate so early. I think Ruiter might be Canada's second bet hope and then Josee Chouinard's daughter Fiona - hopefully she will not have the difficulties her mom had mentally. Ruiter really is trying difficult stuff in the fs for example she goes for two triple lutzes and two triple flips. IN the end Kaori was in a class of her own love or hate her music selections. Kim and Rino were nice but not stellar. I expected or thought we might see Shin or Lindsey on the podium surprised they did so poorly for them. Good to see Starr compete after all her issues.

Ruiter is such an anomaly. Jumps always look good individually, but they are similar to nagasu, who had a chronic pendency to complete a portion of the jump on the ice, typically Landing on the toe and completing a quarter to a half after landing. I remember in 2010 people were saying that she should have beaten rochette because to the untrained eye people didn't notice either the under rotations, or the much shallower edges.

I find Ruiter similar. She will hit a clean program, and has a tremendous amount of polish, excellent choreography, and appears initially to be flying over the ice, but is always lacking just a tiny bit in power and height and rotation etc. It's kind of like Damon and her tight, straight leg Landings after her jumps. It's a bad habit, and one wonders if the best thing to do would be to go back to singles and doubles and work on the Deep knee bend. Same thing with kaya. Maybe spend a summer with less Technical difficulty, and just really working on rotation and cleanliness on jump basics. Otherwise she's going to continue attempting these loaded programs that on paper can compete with the best in the world, but end up internationally with scores in the 110's Max

 

[Axel Rose]

Maddie Schizas needs to work on the hunched shoulders. It’s really distracting. Honestly I’ve not been impressed by her attitude when things don’t go well - loses commitment to expressing the program, scowling the minute the program is over, rolling her eyes in Kiss and Cry. This is in competition since last year and at Stars on Ice. It’s made it hard to root for her when things go well. She got home country gifts in terms of calls today.

 

[Joekaz]

Rino got 2nd highest PCS after Kaori??

Judges for once I really love you

Rino was my favorite skater of the night. Feather light and graceful on the ice with the best edge work of anyone. Underscored.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

The calls for Lindsay were correct. But, I would say I thought the technical panel had two favorites here. Kaori who is World Champion and we know World Champions get favors. Calling Rino’s flat edge lutz and everyone’s flips and ignoring her obvious in real time flutz was a choice.

The second was Maddie who definitely got some home scoring favors too. Didn’t get her lutz called or her URs called in either SP or FS and should not be above Lindsay here given the SP. But, it is what it is and Maddie had a good FS. Good for her but I have some comments for the technical panel.

I'm waiting for Kaori to stop getting +3s and higher on an obvious flutz. People complained to the end of the world whenever it was a Russian, but Kaori and other favourites seem to not get called out as much by the fanbase.

 

[Skating91]

Sakamoto or should that be GOATamoto if she wins worlds three years in a row was strong in the free still got edge issues with the lutz that was overlooked, but didn't they ding Kim for everything? Three edge calls, slapped her for underrotations (which is fine but they are massively inconsistent ignoring Sakamoto's underrotations in the short, and gave her a not clear edge instead of a wrong edge).

Kim should have been closer to Sakamoto than almost the same as Schizas for components. Just my opinion.

Poor girl is being gaslighted it feels like.

The gap between Sakamoto and Kim should have been no more than 10 points across two programs.

 

[Skating91]

I'm waiting for Kaori to stop getting +3s and higher on an obvious flutz. People complained to the end of the world whenever it was a Russian, but Kaori and other favourites seem to not get called out as much by the fanbase.

This is a correct edge on a lutz apparently, jump was off axis yet received 3's from almost every judge

There's the landing

This is Kim's flip not clear edge

There was an underrotation no doubt

But they didn't ding Kaori for them yesterday, Loena and Isabeau last week (click to expand photo).


Imagine what Kim could do if she received these calls. The argument might be she needs to earn them but she's the same age as Isabeau.

 

[TallyT]

I'm waiting for Kaori to stop getting +3s and higher on an obvious flutz. People complained to the end of the world whenever it was a Russian, but Kaori and other favourites seem to not get called out as much by the fanbase.

Oh give over, the Russian girls got just as ridiculous passes and more blatantly hiked PCS grades, and their fans turned enough blind eyes to make a Lovecraft monster blink.

 

[Mathematician]

Oh give over, the Russian girls got just as ridiculous passes and more blatantly hiked PCS grades, and their fans turned enough blind eyes to make a Lovecraft monster blink.

But nobody is defending Russian girls. Everyone knows they were overscored, and they got obliterated by it from fans everywhere for years. Everyone has something against everyone, let him point out the overscoring for Kaori and everyone else can point out the Russian issues. Nobody has a high horse in this situation, if its really so insignificant just let him post his analyses, or you can argue why hes wrong technically.

And like I've said Skating91 constantly criticizes Russians, you just dont see it because he doesnt say anything about Russians in international threads, and basically no Russian fans want to either, but they keep getting baited into it and then ridiculed for it.

 

[TallyT]

But nobody is defending Russian girls. Everyone knows they were overscored, and they got obliterated by it from fans everywhere for years. Everyone has something against everyone, let him point out the overscoring for Kaori and everyone else can point out the Russian issues. Nobody has a high horse in this situation, if its really so insignificant just let him post his analyses, or you can argue why hes wrong technically.

And like I've said Skating91 constantly criticizes Russians, you just dont see it because he doesnt say anything about Russians in international threads, and basically no Russian fans want to either, but they keep getting baited into it and then ridiculed for it.

I've been on social media, mate, and I've been on this forum long enough to have seen the way their fans reacted before the whole current mess at a breath of doubt.

As I said, give over. If he keeps it to the Russian threads, then others can too. This is not the thread to rehash those stale wars.

 

[Mathematician]

I've been on social media, mate, and I've been on this forum long enough to have seen the way their fans reacted before the whole current mess at a breath of doubt.

As I said, give over. If he keeps it to the Russian threads, then others can too. This is not the thread to rehash those stale wars.

What stale wars? He just posted his analysis of a skate in question for this thread.

 

[Mathematician]

Oh, @TallyT theres been a misunderstanding.

I thought you were replying to Skating91's technical analysis, but you were replying to someone else.

 

[Azikin]

I love Kaori but they really couldn't have made more boring programs for her this season...

 

[Skating91]

Oh give over, the Russian girls got just as ridiculous passes and more blatantly hiked PCS grades, and their fans turned enough blind eyes to make a Lovecraft monster blink.

I was curious what past results were like because Loena got 69 last week for PCS in the Madonna routine. There was a lot of arm action and most people don't consider it her best work. Two years ago at the GP Italy she got PCS of 70.62. Both programs had just one 3-3 combo in them.

Curiously the winner of the free skate had three 3-3 combos and even a 4F, program performed with no errors (despite being more difficult content) and received 72.79 PCS. This seems quite reasonable to me, both Loena's marks and the winner.

Sakamoto two years ago at Skate America Sakamoto got 70.29 for PCS in the free skate (73 this weekend), the winner got 69 PCS. Maybe it could have been 2-3 points less for that skater, but they had a 4Lz and significantly more difficult technical content.

It seemed that differing base values made the difference to the results more than the PCS.

Since the top skaters at the moment have similar technical content, it's more crucial than ever before for there to be consistency in assessing the skaters otherwise we will get some strange results, people missing podiums. Let's hope they can get it right.

 

[icewhite]

But nobody is defending Russian girls. Everyone knows they were overscored, and they got obliterated by it from fans everywhere for years. Everyone has something against everyone, let him point out the overscoring for Kaori and everyone else can point out the Russian issues. Nobody has a high horse in this situation, if its really so insignificant just let him post his analyses, or you can argue why hes wrong technically.

And like I've said Skating91 constantly criticizes Russians, you just dont see it because he doesnt say anything about Russians in international threads, and basically no Russian fans want to either, but they keep getting baited into it and then ridiculed for it.

I have seen enough of their posts in the Russian section to know now how to take them. It's a constant "the international skaters are so bad, not even worth watching, our girls (I think they are an Eteri fan) would thrash them". If someone only seems to come to the "international threads" to post about missed or perceived missed calls, I call that dishonest. Why even come here if it's not worth watching?
I am also constantly critisizing, much more than people like, because, well, I'm just that person. I am not a very positive person per se, I like to critisize, partly because it's my character, partly because I seriously believe things will become better when you talk about it. But if it's just part of an agenda skaters like Sakamoto or Hendrickx should not be drawn into it.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Oh give over, the Russian girls got just as ridiculous passes and more blatantly hiked PCS grades, and their fans turned enough blind eyes to make a Lovecraft monster blink.

I agree,
not everything in the universe is either or.
I am against Russian edge calls being ignored, and I am against Kaori's edge calls being ignored.
It is not fair when edges and underrotations are ignored - I am consistent in this belief and call it out with all skaters who do it.
I have personally never turned a blind eye to the technique. I am not even Russian, and the one Russian skater I am a huge fan of, Mikhail Kolyada, cannot be accused of having technique issues. I used to constantly criticise Eteri Tutberidze, and all the skaters with edges on lutz (reguardless of nationality).

And if that makes you mad, then as far as I'm concerned that's your problem. I personally don't need to look at a skater's flag before pointing out issues with technique, I prefer just to point out poor technique when it occurs.

 

[SmileHappy34]

Get over the scores and how a fan or we see them on Tv , in competition area, or wherever.
We don't see the way judged do.
U nitpick other skaters while propping up ur favorite.
I was vilified for doing it back and in the day
Madeline Schizas didreceive some props due to the upcoming World Championship in Canada this year.
How it affects scoring and placement I don't know.

The past skaters including medalist did admit after they retired they receive inflation due to championship in their country.

Even Olympic the country that has it expects a higher than normal medal count.
The issue is do they maintain the medal or scores when not in country. The answer is usually No.

Did they overllok Maddie underscore others probably.

It is the tech panel job not just judges and they give PCs according to how they see it

Isabeau was actually underscored
A person could make a case of Amber despite her mess ups should have still been on the podium.
Are you mad Maddie did not podium despite great skate?
Chaeyong did despite messy skate? Kaori too high score?
I gather u all lovedwatching them skate. They thrilled, awed , and surprise you.
Why bring them down over something petty because you thought someone should did better in scores or placement.

The skaters and teams worked hard give them the respect despite the finish.
It is hard but I gather u all enjoy it. Let's play to that enjoyment.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I have seen enough of their posts in the Russian section to know now how to take them. It's a constant "the international skaters are so bad, not even worth watching, our girls (I think they are an Eteri fan) would thrash them". If someone only seems to come to the "international threads" to post about missed or perceived missed calls, I call that dishonest. Why even come here if it's not worth watching?
I am also constantly critisizing, much more than people like, because, well, I'm just that person. I am not a very positive person per se, I like to critisize, partly because it's my character, partly because I seriously believe things will become better when you talk about it. But if it's just part of an agenda skaters like Sakamoto or Hendrickx should not be drawn into it.

I apologise if you're talking about another poster, but I think it was my comment that started this rabbit hole, so I feel justified to defend myself.

In my case, I only come to the international threads when criticising missed calls and judge bias, simply because I don't watch Russian Domestic Competitions. I haven't watched Channel 1 Russia livestreams since the start of the war, and therefore I don't criticise skaters that I don't watch. I have no idea what's going on in Russian FS right now, so it would be highly inappropriate of me to start writing posts in Russian domestic events section of goldenskate. I can't remember even ever posting in Russian domestic thread (it could have been possible a while back if I was talking about Russian men before the olympics, particularly on Olympic spot allocation on run up to the olympics).



The fact is some people are so defensive about criticising non-russian athletes, that it does overlook unfair judging internationally. For me, at the olympics, if Wakaba was judged to all other standards she would have won the olympic short program, without a shadow of a doubt. And for me, that means ahead of the Russian girls and ahead of Kaori. Wakaba got an < and q!, both of which were insanely harsh calls given Kaori had a clear lutz edge violation, Sherbakova had a bad edge, Trusova got ridiculous PCS inflation, and Valievas jumps got excessive GOE. I have pointed out four skaters, with different issues, who didn't get penalised for those issues. Three of those were Russian, One of them was Kaori. But Wakaba, another Japanese skater, was heavily penalised for minor issues.



In this event, most of the calls were correctly given. Kaori, as wonderful as she is, benefitted from incorrect calls at this competition, and this is unfair to other athletes at this event. On a conversation about this event, people get mad because I pointed out a biased/unfair call. I'm not insulting Kaori as a person, or other attributes. I'm saying that she was held to different standards, and given high GOE for an obvious flutz.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Get over the scores and how a fan or we see them on Tv , in competition area, or wherever.
We don't see the way judged do.
U nitpick other skaters while propping up ur favorite.
I was vilified for doing it back and in the day
Madeline Schizas didreceive some props due to the upcoming World Championship in Canada this year.
How it affects scoring and placement I don't know.

The past skaters including medalist did admit after they retired they receive inflation due to championship in their country.

Even Olympic the country that has it expects a higher than normal medal count.
The issue is do they maintain the medal or scores when not in country. The answer is usually No.

Did they overllok Maddie underscore others probably.

It is the tech panel job not just judges and they give PCs according to how they see it

Isabeau was actually underscored
A person could make a case of Amber despite her mess ups should have still been on the podium.
Are you mad Maddie did not podium despite great skate?
Chaeyong did despite messy skate? Kaori too high score?
I gather u all lovedwatching them skate. They thrilled, awed , and surprise you.
Why bring them down over something petty because you thought someone should did better in scores or placement.

The skaters and teams worked hard give them the respect despite the finish.
It is hard but I gather u all enjoy it. Let's play to that enjoyment.

Look at this thread, and tell me where I propped my favourite. Please, give one example. I do sit on panels at competitions, and have done training for sitting on panels. I know the layouts of elements, and when the issues are visible. I made one comment, about one issue in this one competition. No I didn't make a list of every issue every skater has ever made in the history of the sport. Nor have I excused every other issue that may have occured.

"Why bring them down over something petty because you thought someone should did better in scores or placement."
I'm not bringing them down. I did not go onto Kaori's instagram and make a comment against her, nor did I hate on her for having a bad lutz edge. A bad lutz edge is not a personality fault. Nor is it reason to lose a medal necessarily. I am against judge bias.

I made my post talking about skate Canada 2023 women's free skate. I mentioned a biased call. I'm not going to talk about a different event, or other skaters that benefited from missed calls.

Do you agree figure skating is a sport, and that figure skaters are athletes? If to you, it's just a performing art, then thats fine. But for me, a sport should have fair, unbiased arbitration. If somebody runs 100m faster than another, but they get it wrong and don't look at the photo finish correctly fans should be able to point that out. I hold Figure skating, probably in vain, to the same standards as other sports. Because to me, it is a sport.

It is the tech panel job to call edges. They didn't do their job correctly unfortunately. I have sat on panels before, and I promise you that her lutz edge would be noticeably incorrect from their position and from the tech panel cameras. But judges, at the same time, should not give +3 for incorrect lutz. Kaori's 3Lz isn't a +3 3Lz, and I'm simply pointing out that inflation.

 

[icewhite]

I apologise if you're talking about another poster, but I think it was my comment that started this rabbit hole, so I feel justified to defend myself.

In my case, I only come to the international threads when criticising missed calls and judge bias, simply because I don't watch Russian Domestic Competitions. I haven't watched Channel 1 Russia livestreams since the start of the war, and therefore I don't criticise skaters that I don't watch. I have no idea what's going on in Russian FS right now, so it would be highly inappropriate of me to start writing posts in Russian domestic events section of goldenskate. I can't remember even ever posting in Russian domestic thread (it could have been possible a while back if I was talking about Russian men before the olympics, particularly on Olympic spot allocation on run up to the olympics).



The fact is some people are so defensive about criticising non-russian athletes, that it does overlook unfair judging internationally. For me, at the olympics, if Wakaba was judged to all other standards she would have won the olympic short program, without a shadow of a doubt. And for me, that means ahead of the Russian girls and ahead of Kaori. Wakaba got an < and q!, both of which were insanely harsh calls given Kaori had a clear lutz edge violation, Sherbakova had a bad edge, Trusova got ridiculous PCS inflation, and Valievas jumps got excessive GOE. I have pointed out four skaters, with different issues, who didn't get penalised for those issues. Three of those were Russian, One of them was Kaori. But Wakaba, another Japanese skater, was heavily penalised for minor issues.



In this event, most of the calls were correctly given. Kaori, as wonderful as she is, benefitted from incorrect calls at this competition, and this is unfair to other athletes at this event. On a conversation about this event, people get mad because I pointed out a biased/unfair call. I'm not insulting Kaori as a person, or other attributes. I'm saying that she was held to different standards, and given high GOE for an obvious flutz.

That is totally fine, I have seen you are a very fair and very knowledgable judge who calls out bad technique all over and regardless. I don't have an issue with that at all.
I will admit, I really like Kaori and think she can bring something to the table that most other female skaters don't - although not with these programs - and that's why I am willing to accept her technical flaws more than I would do with others. However, I don't have a problem with others critisizing her in general. I just think that if we make an effort to scrutinize every single jump closely and with pictures we should not just do it with an agenda in mind.

Now, I was one of the starters of this discussion, I have said what I wanted to say and will now be quiet on this.