Austman and Daleman withdraw from Skate Canada

[4everchan]

I'm a Kailani's super fan I feel disappointed for her not having even one GP. I have no idea about the selections process but I agree with your point. Maybe skaters with one GP might be a better option to adding more GPF eligibles.

apparently I am wrong on that one ... so Craine can get an event as well.

i like her... Canada usually invites Australian skaters : A/W and Kerry are at SCI this year. Cannot wait to see them live. What bothers me is not wishful thinking, it's the comments that skaters like Mallet and Pineault should NOT be there because other skaters are better... we all know the rules about host spots and I find it abrasive that some users denigrate the local talent, especially when it comes to ladies in Canada... Canada may be a big skating nation, though it's hard to believe considering its very small population... but our ladies have often been a weak point and I am thrilled that Veronik and Alicia have a shot at a home GP (especially since they are both from Quebec and the event is in Quebec as well).

 

[Ice Dance]

I do not ever remember any of the big feds not filling their host spot with local skaters...

Japan regularly does it on the GP in ice dance. (They did it last season, for example. Fukase & Tateno were given an early Challenger upon entering seniors; but they were not assigned to NHK). France does it also, even leaving athletes off the World team. (France had three spots in dance at the 2016 Worlds; but they only used two. Alessandrini & Souquet went to Europeans that year. They finished 20th there, and France did not assign them to fill the third berth at Worlds). Sometimes spots aren't filled because countries literally can't fill them. But Japan and France must have some mandatory internal criteria that they require their athletes to reach prior to inviting them to compete on the GP. If their lower-level athletes don't, then the Federation throws the spot back "into the international GP pot."

I think probably Skate Canada would do this too at a certain point based on some internal criteria. I remember reading a few years ago that Mallet was the only option for SC or one of the only options because she had a certain score. USFS requires athletes to meet a certain score to qualify for the international selection pool, as well as a certain score in the first JGP event in order to get a second one. The U.S. gave back several junior dance spots to the field two years ago after the lower half of the teams from Nationals split. USFSA still had teams that did one event and could have taken a second, but they were not given the second berth because they didn't meet whatever the mandatory score was that the U.S. federation had set for earning a second event.

 

[4everchan]

Japan regularly does it on the GP in ice dance. (They did it last season, for example. Fukase & Tateno were given an early Challenger upon entering seniors; but they were not assigned to NHK). France does it also, even leaving athletes off the World team. (France had three spots in dance at the 2016 Worlds; but they only used two. Alessandrini & Souquet went to Europeans that year. They finished 20th there, and France did not assign them to fill the third berth at Worlds). Sometimes spots aren't filled because countries literally can't fill them. But Japan and France must have some mandatory internal criteria that they require their athletes to reach prior to inviting them to compete on the GP. If their lower-level athletes don't, then the Federation throws the spot back "into the international GP pot."

I think probably Skate Canada would do this too at a certain point based on some internal criteria. I remember reading a few years ago that Mallet was the only option for SC or one of the only options because she had a certain score. USFS requires athletes to meet a certain score to qualify for the international selection pool, as well as a certain score in the first JGP event in order to get a second one. The U.S. gave back several junior dance spots to the field two years ago after the lower half of the teams from Nationals split. USFSA still had teams that did one event and could have taken a second, but they were not given the second berth because they didn't meet whatever the mandatory score was that the U.S. federation had set for earning a second event.

all of this seems very nice but that is different from saying : these girls shouldn't be there and it's unfair to that or that other girl...

Also, you are mostly giving examples about ice dance... which is often very weak in some countries, or at least not deep at all. France is known to do a lot of random things

and btw, both alicia and veronik earned their spot because they did perform well on their challenger assignments.

Usually Skate Canada sends skater on the national team. That's why Chartrand and Austman got their berth.

 

[Ladskater]

Sorry to hear this news. I can understand how Gabby feels, FS competitively is a lot of pressure. Hope she gets some help and some ways to cope. I also wish Larkyn a speedy recovery. A shame they won't be at Skate Canada, but hope to see them at Nationals.

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

I wish both of them to take as long as they need to heal and speedy recovery.

Very brave for Gabby to talk about her problems, she could have lied (no one business from the large public what it ails her!). She has as much courage like the Wonder Woman,i wish her all the best!

 

[TGee]

But Japan and France must have some mandatory internal criteria that they require their athletes to reach prior to inviting them to compete on the GP. If their lower-level athletes don't, then the Federation throws the spot back "into the international GP pot."

I think probably Skate Canada would do this too at a certain point based on some internal criteria. I remember reading a few years ago that Mallet was the only option for SC or one of the only options because she had a certain score.

First off, while Canada has struggled in the Ladies discipline, we have had skaters on World and Olympic podiums. It is not comparable to ice dance in Japan at all.

France may have given some of its spots away in the past, but in many years it did not have even one skater/team in two or three disciplines that would earn a GP berth by ISU ranking. Three spots were more than they could cover internally. And as has been noted, France has not always been gracious : on several occasions there have been very late withdrawals and spots left unassigned.

Next, I'd like to underscore that Canada does have minimum criteria in terms of not only total score but elements achieved in competition for both Senior and Junior ISU international assignments.

Veronik and Alicia have both met them for Seniors, and have placed in the top 5 at Nationals. (In Veronik's case in 2017, but she was off a year for documented injury.). By doing this they have earned National Team status.

As national team members, funded Sport Canada' Athlete Assistance Program, they MUST get ISU assignments during the season. (Skate Canada is also funded by Sport Canada, it must follow the internal requirements.).

As others have noted, host spots at GPs are to some extent a recompense for the host, and help develop greater depth in host countries.

The host GP spots went first to those ranked higher at Nationals (Gabby, Larkyn and Alaine).

Veronik and Alicia both were assigned to Challengers and the opportunity to earn the minimum TES required for 4CC and World's by ISU.

(The ISU TES requirements would be what prevents Canada and other countries from assigning some skaters to 4CC or Worlds even if improve and do well at Nationals. It happened when Kevin Reynolds was returning after surgery.)

In terms of the international spot, looking at the ISU rankings for SB, PB and World, Eunsoo Lim is higher placed than Kailani for all 3.

Personally, I think it would be great to see Kailani have the opportunity, but to suggest that it would be unfair if they selected someone else is not a convincing case.

Lastly, I am really irritated by snarky and/or uninformed comments about Veronik by those who have not tracked her or watched her.

Her injury was serious, and she doesn't have 3-3 combos or the harder triples in competitive form as yet. But what she has got back into form, she does very well with good GOE.

She did very well at Finlandia, and she is placed higher than Kailani on ISU's SB rankings to date for 2018-2019.

 

[Skater Boy]

First off, while Canada has struggled in the Ladies discipline, we have had skaters on World and Olympic podiums. It is not comparable to ice dance in Japan at all.

France may have given some of its spots away in the past, but in many years it did not have even one skater/team in two or three disciplines that would earn a GP berth by ISU ranking. Three spots were more than they could cover internally. And as has been noted, France has not always been gracious : on several occasions there have been very late withdrawals and spots left unassigned.

Next, I'd like to underscore that Canada does have minimum criteria in terms of not only total score but elements achieved in competition for both Senior and Junior ISU international assignments.

Veronik and Alicia have both met them for Seniors, and have placed in the top 5 at Nationals. (In Veronik's case in 2017, but she was off a year for documented injury.). By doing this they have earned National Team status.

As national team members, funded Sport Canada' Athlete Assistance Program, they MUST get ISU assignments during the season. (Skate Canada is also funded by Sport Canada, it must follow the internal requirements.).


As others have noted, host spots at GPs are to some extent a recompense for the host, and help develop greater depth in host countries.

The host GP spots went first to those ranked higher at Nationals (Gabby, Larkyn and Alaine).

Veronik and Alicia both were assigned to Challengers and the opportunity to earn the minimum TES required for 4CC and World's by ISU.

(The ISU TES requirements would be what prevents Canada and other countries from assigning some skaters to 4CC or Worlds even if improve and do well at Nationals. It happened when Kevin Reynolds was returning after surgery.)

In terms of the international spot, looking at the ISU rankings for SB, PB and World, Eunsoo Lim is higher placed than Kailani for all 3.

Personally, I think it would be great to see Kailani have the opportunity, but to suggest that it would be unfair if they selected someone else is not a convincing case.

Lastly, I am really irritated by snarky and/or uninformed comments about Veronik by those who have not tracked her or watched her.

Her injury was serious, and she doesn't have 3-3 combos or the harder triples in competitive form as yet. But what she has got back into form, she does very well with good GOE.

She did very well at Finlandia, and she is placed higher than Kailani on ISU's SB rankings to date for 2018-2019.

This is shocking and devastating news for skating and in particular Canada.

First and foremost we must wish these girls well on their road to recovery. hey needtodo what is best for them.

Second, wonderful opportunity for other ladies. However. Canada is missing its top three ladies. Realistically they could end up with no representative next year. Larkyn didn't qualify twice for major events (worlds and olympics) and she supposedly was no. 3.

Third, it doesn't seem logical but life is that way. You would think there is less pressure on the ladies with Osmond gone nad three spots at least for Gabby. I am not sure what is wrong oris this the"flavor of the month" or rather is this an issue that has been in the sport for some time but with Gracie opening the door and you could see it in Yulia Lip. as well as now Ashley. I don't want to downplay it; we know stress leave is something prominent It is easy for us on the sidelines to judge; I really hope Gabby comes back stronger. She is the world bronze medallist. I am fearful though. I must have missed some posts or news. I hadn't realized things are this "bad".

Skating is a tough sport mentally and physically. Social media may not have helped - look at all of us "judges". There is always someone in y our way or trying to get "your" spot. Then there are family and sport federation and sponsors to deal with. The sport also is a judged sort and there are inherent challenges here causing more stress.

Skate Canada must be deep down worried about the GP Final for seniors. There may not e much national cheering. two on the edge possibilities with e pairs and dance. Keegan would be hard pressed to move up. Almost Guaranteed Osmond is gone and with Gabby out...

But thisi s about two skaters = hope they can tough it out.

 

[4everchan]

thanks skater boy for your post. I agree with most of what you wrote.. first and foremost, may those two young athletes heal and feel better. The rest, doesn't matter.

Where I am a bit less on the same page is here : GP FInal, whether it has Canadians or not in it, will be a blast. The Canadian fans love skating and will cheer for everyone.

Considering what we have seen so far in JGP and Series B : well, Lajoie and Lagha have qualified, so there will be at least on ice dance team. Too bad about our boys, the maths didn't play well for them, and Gogo is the first sub by a 0.01 margin (that's by how much Conrad lost his bronze a couple weeks ago.. with that bronze for Conrad, Gogo would have qualified.

So as we never had chances in pairs and ladies in juniors, I feel that mission is almost accomplished for juniors.


For Seniors : MTM 2.0 are doing well.. With all the pairs, and we are talking strong pairs that are not there, they should qualify.

Piper and Paul should as well.

And... I wouldn't be surprised if either Nam or Keegan qualifies, based on challenger results.

Laides : well I am not sure Gabby would have done it, she had both incredibly tough fields.

 

[skateluvr]

I’m disappointed about Gabby. Can anyone tell us more? Have we no spies at the CC. She’s already done some great skating. Without Osmond and Gabby I am afraid Canada has no lady who is any podium threat. Boo! Please get well Gabby u will be missed. I predicted her rise from the first time I saw her. She seems to have lost her confidence after her disastrous skate in Peyongchang. I will miss seeing her huge triple toe triple toe. Her only outing this year showed things were not well with her. She will make a strong comeback I predict if she still loves skating. I hope so anyway.

 

[TGee]

I’m disappointed about Gabby. Can anyone tell us more? Have we no spies at the CC. She’s already done some great skating. Without Osmond and Gabby I am afraid Canada has no lady who is any podium threat. Boo! Please get well Gabby u will be missed. I predicted her rise from the first time I saw her. She seems to have lost her confidence after her disastrous skate in Peyongchang. I will miss seeing her huge triple toe triple toe. Her only outing this year showed things were not well with her. She will make a strong comeback I predict if she still loves skating. I hope so anyway.

I'd like to give Gabby the space she needs to figure it out and become well, while letting her know she has our best wishes.

She's let us know that she's coming to terms with a diagnosis of IBS, a chronic physical illness, and what it means to manage it. Now her withdrawal from SCI is accompanied by the message that she is going to take time to work on her mental health.

Looking for a Canadian lady on the rise, I would turn your eyes to Veronik Mallet.

She'd just made the national team in 2017 when a serious injury took her off-line. But she wisely took the time off and deferred her federal athlete's funding.

She doesn't have all her triples back in competition yet, but what she does is done with quality. You can expect her scores to rise as she adds in the higher BV triples and combinations.

She came 6th overall at Finlandia and here's her FS:

https://youtu.be/nqosv7j_Ijk

 

[rain]

Well..not to sound icky about it or anything but without a real medal threat in Ladies for Canada maybe they will be more willing to invite someone like Eunsoo than they would if Gabby were competing.

I'd still like to see Kailani get the invite.

You don't sound icky. These things are strategic. Canada really has no horse in the ladies GP race anymore, so I'd say they'll invite whoever is going to most help fill the seats in the arena.

I wondered about Aurora Cotop maybe getting a Skate Canada spot — she was promising at last year's nationals. Is she skating seniors this year?

 

[Koatterce]

You don't sound icky. These things are strategic. Canada really has no horse in the ladies GP race anymore, so I'd say they'll invite whoever is going to most help fill the seats in the arena.

I wondered about Aurora Cotop maybe getting a Skate Canada spot — she was promising at last year's nationals. Is she skating seniors this year?

nope she did JGP (Slovenia)

 

[4everchan]

You don't sound icky. These things are strategic. Canada really has no horse in the ladies GP race anymore, so I'd say they'll invite whoever is going to most help fill the seats in the arena.

I wondered about Aurora Cotop maybe getting a Skate Canada spot — she was promising at last year's nationals. Is she skating seniors this year?

she is transitioning from juniors to seniors but did JGP so she wouldn't be allowed for a GP...

perhaps had the fed known about all these w/ds they would have given her a host spot and scratch her from JGP.

She is also transitioning to a new coach : Ravi.

It's been difficult for her as she seems to be working on jump technique. She's less stable

 

[Ice Dance]

I don't disagree with Mallet & Pinault's assignments at all. They make perfect sense for Skate Canada. I am only responding to the "lack of memory" in the post above by pointing out that big federations do have policies that allow their host spots to go to other countries. (The reason my examples are largely about ice dance is obviously because those are the assignments I, personally, tend to remember as a dance fan. It happens in other disciplines, and there are policies in place by large federations that can allow it to happen in any discipline).

FYI, Fukase & Tateno met their World minimums in dance last season. Something some dance teams from both the U.S. and Canada have never done during seasons in which they were selected for GP assignments. F&T had not met their minimums early in the season, but still--in comparison to other countries--Japan's internal criteria strikes me as quite exacting.

 

[chuckm]

It's sad to see Aurora's jump repertoire shrink to the point she's doing just 3t+2t and 3lo in the SP. She is such an elegant skater, but she will find it hard to make world minimums with such limited tech.

 

[4everchan]

It's sad to see Aurora's jump repertoire shrink to the point she's doing just 3t+2t and 3lo in the SP. She is such an elegant skater, but she will find it hard to make world minimums with such limited tech.

1) Veronik used that jump repertoire and got her TES minimums at Finlandia
2) Who said Aurora was doing those? She just skated (not well though) in a JGP with a mandatory 3flip as the solo jump. Did i miss an article saying she was downgrading her programs?

 

[emdee]

Maybe Kaetlyn will be persuaded to come back for Nats and worlds.

 

[chuckm]

At the Slovenian JGP, Aurora fell on a downgraded flip in the SP and on a fully rotated flip in the FS. Of the triples in the FS, she landed only two 3t and a 3lo; she planned two 3s but one was ur and she doubled the other. What is worrisome is that she skated better with more tech content early in the summer. I understand she may be revamping her technique under Ravi Walia, but in the current ladies' circumstances a healthy Aurora with World minimums at the ready is needed.

 

[rain]

At the Slovenian JGP, Aurora fell on a downgraded flip in the SP and on a fully rotated flip in the FS. Of the triples in the FS, she landed only two 3t and a 3lo; she planned two 3s but one was ur and she doubled the other. What is worrisome is that she skated better with more tech content early in the summer. I understand she may be revamping her technique under Ravi Walia, but in the current ladies' circumstances a healthy Aurora with World minimums at the ready is needed.

But they've really got to focus on long term. This is absolutely the time to work on technique, this far out from the next Olympics. It's too bad, of course, with all the unexpected, as well as the expected withdrawals, but better to stick with it and make the change now.

 

[4everchan]

At the Slovenian JGP, Aurora fell on a downgraded flip in the SP and on a fully rotated flip in the FS. Of the triples in the FS, she landed only two 3t and a 3lo; she planned two 3s but one was ur and she doubled the other. What is worrisome is that she skated better with more tech content early in the summer. I understand she may be revamping her technique under Ravi Walia, but in the current ladies' circumstances a healthy Aurora with World minimums at the ready is needed.

so you just made the assumption that aurora would go for jumps she landed a couple weeks ago... well... i will wait and see what her planned program is... and again, even with a simple layout, others have gotten their minimums.

Finally, though Kaetlyn is on hiatus and Gabby is taking time off, it doesn't mean Canada will need Aurora... there is also a best case scenario where the six top girls include back to health Gabby, Larkyn, back on track Alaine for worlds , Veronik, Alicia and any other for 4CC ... or any such combo of 6 ladies. Aurora is not "mandatory" for Canadian ladies to survive this year.