Great Article About Virtue and Moir and Olympics

[Ladskater]

Okay, all 2014 Olympic controversy comments aside, this is a really nice unbiased article about Scott and Tessa. I just saw them at the recent Stars on Ice Tour here in Vancouver and it did seem as though they have moved on to a much different zone in their skating. They are still beautiful to watch and undeniably one of the best teams to ever grace the field of ice dance. Should they retire from competing they will be missed....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...t-didnt-lose-anything-we-did/article16929332/

 

[Sandpiper]

Lovely article. They've had an incredible career and certainly deserve a rest. However, I still want them back, with a different coach and more stylistic risks. They still have to win the GPF! They still have to skate a Jeff Buttle program! They still can win another Olympic medal!

 

[Coltrocks12]

I would love to see both teams return. Bear with me while I try to explain where I stand on this.

I would love to see V/M try to be more technically savvy and skate clean programs. Last season was riddled with hand fulls of little mistakes as was revealed in episodes 3-7 of their reality show. They were flawless in Vancouver which is why they were able to beat D/W back then. They put so much emphasis on their connection and artistry that they let the technical side slide just a bit over the past few seasons. They got a level 2 on the step sequence in St Johns, a level 2 on the twizzles in Paris. Both were better in the GPF which was why they narrowed the gap, but they got a level 3 on the step sequence in Sochi. They have been downgraded at least 6 times in the last couple of seasons. I don't know if Tessa's battle with leg injuries took its toll on them, or if they are losing focus. I think that if they had spent as much time listening to Marina and applying the corrections as they did "lamenting" her they might have made a better run. While I loved the artistry of the two programs they skated this season, I don't think these programs were their best chance at Gold in Sochi.

I would love to see what Davis/White can do with their new found artistry and chemistry they learned on DWTS. Meryl totally blossomed and found a sensual, sassy side that can play into totally new styles and characters for them to explore on the ice. If you are going to stay and go for a second OGM you have to stay fresh and almost re-invent yourself or other teams end up surpassing you. I can see them developing a softer more artistic side but keeping some of the speed, power, and close leg movements when in hold. They were flawless technically which is why they have been unbeatable for the past two years but they can blow this competition out of the water with added artistry and chemistry. They have made marked improvement between Vancouver and Sochi on the artistry side, but they can do more.

Decisions still have to be made by both teams regarding the future. If they were to split up (saying one partner wants to retire and the other doesn't) I would like to see the ones staying to try to find a new partner that tests them in the areas they need to work on. For instance, Scott/Tessa should look for partners that test them technically whereas Meryl or Charlie should look for partners who promote the development of their artistry in a similar way to how Maks developed Meryl's artistry. Scott has a similar personality to me of Maks in the way that they compete, the fiery nature in performance, the desire to do things differently, and the temperamental and passionate nature. Imagine for a minute Meryl trying to match Scott in a team up. Scott would continue Meryl's improvement as a sensual, sexy dancer and Meryl would push Scott to be more technically correct. I am not saying that they will or should team up, just how they can use try-outs to create new teams that take them in new directions as skaters.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I give the author credit for acknowledging some complexities about scoring controversies and "fixed" outcomes. If one is going to question whether the outcome was fixed, then why shouldn't one question Vancouver or Voir's World Championship wins as well. And I do believe, as he does, that it simply came down to a matter of what specific area the judges were prioritizing: in the case of Sochi, it was technique over pure artistry. That's a pretty fair assessment in my opinion, certainly much more fair than any other Canadian sportswriter's or commentator's take on it.

 

[Coltrocks12]

Okay, all 2014 Olympic controversy comments aside, this is a really nice unbiased article about Scott and Tessa. I just saw them at the recent Stars on Ice Tour here in Vancouver and it did seem as though they have moved on to a much different zone in their skating. They are still beautiful to watch and undeniably one of the best teams to ever grace the field of ice dance. Should they retire from competing they will be missed....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...t-didnt-lose-anything-we-did/article16929332/

This article was more unbiased than most that came out of Canada after the Olympics.

I don't blame Canadian fans for their disappointment that their team didn't win. That is the job of the fan. I do think that the Canadian media went too far making their talking points that they took every statement that Tessa or Scott made out of context making them sound to us in the States as poor losers who couldn't handle defeat with grace. When you actually watch the press conference from Tessa and Scott after the skate it doesn't sound that way at all and Scott even defends Marina a bit. Marina was slammed in the Canadian media for marching with the US instead of Canada (even though she marched with Canada previously and it would have been team USA's turn to be fair) and for going to the US nationals over the Canadians (she had more than a couple of teams for USA with one for Canada. She was more needed by the younger teams like the Shibs than she was for either V/M or D/W who are good enough to win without her for a week.)

What I think is curious is why none of the media points out the mistakes that were in their programs. They characterize the event as the judges favoring D/W for their style over V/M and their style. That is how you would characterize Vancouver not Sochi. In Sochi you had one team who had virtually no mistakes and made their level in every element versus another team who had a couple of little mistakes in each program causing a downgrade in the step-sequence and a plus-one in the component scores for the twizzles which were out of unison. I love V/M don't get me wrong, but they were not in the same league this year as D/W and they left a lot of points on the ice.

 

[Coltrocks12]

I give the author credit for acknowledging some complexities about scoring controversies and "fixed" outcomes. If one is going to question whether the outcome was fixed, then why shouldn't one question Vancouver or Voir's World Championship wins as well. And I do believe, as he does, that it simply came down to a matter of what specific area the judges were prioritizing: in the case of Sochi, it was technique over pure artistry. That's a pretty fair assessment in my opinion, certainly much more fair than any other Canadian sportswriter's or commentator's take on it.

This. This is more of a fair characterization of the competition than anything I have seen in the media out of either country after Sochi. Great post.:agree:

 

[Olympia]

Okay, all 2014 Olympic controversy comments aside, this is a really nice unbiased article about Scott and Tessa. I just saw them at the recent Stars on Ice Tour here in Vancouver and it did seem as though they have moved on to a much different zone in their skating. They are still beautiful to watch and undeniably one of the best teams to ever grace the field of ice dance. Should they retire from competing they will be missed....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...t-didnt-lose-anything-we-did/article16929332/

Thanks so much for this wonderful article. I love both couples so much that I selfishly wish they would continue, because I can't see anyone on the horizon who could measure up to them.

My feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they are already Olympic gold medalists, so the word lose should never be used in the same sentence as their names. To expect or even just to wish that they win everything in sight every time is not relevant or even realistic. In the old days of Soviet domination of pairs and ice dance, the leading couple from the U.S.S.R. might win for as long as they chose (or were told) to stay in, as happened in pairs with Rodnina and Zaitsev. But now things are more dynamic and volatile, and that's not a bad thing. V/M are still Olympic champions, and pioneering ones: the first North American champions, the youngest champions. Nothing can erase that achievement or even tarnish it.

It would be interesting, as Sandpiper says, to see them back with a different coach and some different aspects to their skating. Wouldn't that be skating heaven? And I'd love to see Davis/White back too, with their new depth of performance ability gleaned from their work on Dancing with the Stars. This is a rivalry in which, to my mind, there are no losers.

 

[Coltrocks12]

Lovely article. They've had an incredible career and certainly deserve a rest. However, I still want them back, with a different coach and more stylistic risks. They still have to win the GPF! They still have to skate a Jeff Buttle program! They still can win another Olympic medal!

I don't think they need a new coach. I think they need to listen to the one they have when she makes corrections. The reality show footage of them back stage and in rehearsal opened my eyes to the dynamics of their relationship with Marina and Johnny. They were trying to help them be better technically and Scott kept flipping out at lower marks rather than listen to the coaches try to explain the levels and outline corrections to make them better. If they have that attitude it isn't going to matter who coaches them they will come up short when it counts.

I agree with the rest of your post that I would love to see them stick around and try to win the GPF. They need to develop the technical side without giving up ground on the artistry side if they are going to make it happen.

 

[fleeting]

I don't think they need a new coach. I think they need to listen to the one they have when she makes corrections. The reality show footage of them back stage and in rehearsal opened my eyes to the dynamics of their relationship with Marina and Johnny. They were trying to help them be better technically and Scott kept flipping out at lower marks rather than listen to the coaches try to explain the levels and outline corrections to make them better. If they have that attitude it isn't going to matter who coaches them they will come up short when it counts.

I agree with the rest of your post that I would love to see them stick around and try to win the GPF. They need to develop the technical side without giving up ground on the artistry side if they are going to make it happen.

It's been reported (?) that they've put their condos up for lease and left Canton. So I'd assume if they do continue, it would be with a new coach.

 

[Sandpiper]

^^I don't understand Ice Dance too well from the technical perspective, but what "twizzles out of unison" are you talking about? V/M's twizzles were perfect (in so far as perfection is humanly possible) in the Sochi individual.

Also, it should be noted that the points difference between V/M and D/W after the SD was about the same as the difference between V/M and I/K. There was absolutely nothing V/M could've done in the FD to win--there was no way to make up the difference. They'd need to have D/W fall over.

Absolutely against Tessa and Scott continuing with new partners. The possibility doesn't intrigue me at all. They were magic because they were together. V/M always felt like an equal partnership to me, whereas D/W was a bit "Charlie showcasing Meryl" (nothing wrong with that, per se, just not what I prefer in ice dance. Seems more suited for pairs).

 

[Coltrocks12]

It's been reported (?) that they've put their condos up for lease and left Canton. So I'd assume if they do continue, it would be with a new coach.

And they might have to considering what happened in the media after Sochi (Marina might not want to coach them after all that.) I think selling the condos in Michigan might be more of a sign of retirement than coaching change though it could mean that. If somebody put a gun to my head and said predict the future I would say that neither team will compete next year though I would want both to compete in my heart.

 

[Whitneyskates]

I've never understood the outrage over Marina walking the US team rather than Canadian team. Neither D/W or V/M attended the Opening Ceremony, so she walked with the Shibs. What's the big deal?

 

[Coltrocks12]

^I don't understand Ice Dance too well from the technical perspective, but what "twizzles out of unison" are you talking about? V/M's twizzles were perfect (in so far as perfection is humanly possible) in the Sochi individual.

Also, it should be noted that the points difference between V/M and D/W after the SD was about the same as the difference between V/M and I/K. There was absolutely nothing V/M could've done in the FD to win--there was no way to make up the difference. They'd need to have D/W fall over.

Watch the Olympics again. The short program, Tessa is almost a beat behind Scott in all of the Twizzle passes. In the free skate the first twizzle pass is good but as soon as they change positions into the second pass she ends up behind them again. I don't know how to post videos on here to show you. We noticed them in real time watching the Olympics and were not surprised with the plus-one on the marks. Hope that helps.

 

[Coltrocks12]

^^
Absolutely against Tessa and Scott continuing with new partners. The possibility doesn't intrigue me at all. They were magic because they were together. V/M always felt like an equal partnership to me, whereas D/W was a bit "Charlie showcasing Meryl" (nothing wrong with that, per se, just not what I prefer in ice dance. Seems more suited for pairs).

I wasn't saying that they should change partners, only that if for some reason they did, what I would like to see. I agree that both teams are well-matched and my preference would be for them to all stay as presently aligned. As to D/W I actually think it is the other way around. Meryl showcases Charlie because she is able to give them some artistry that Charlie lacks for me. I think they are well matched technically and Meryl sells the idea that there is some softness and connection to each other and the music. Love you Sandpaper, but have to agree to disagree.

 

[fleeting]

I've never understood the outrage over Marina walking the US team rather than Canadian team. Neither D/W or V/M attended the Opening Ceremony, so she walked with the Shibs. What's the big deal?

Conspiracy theories don't take logic into account :confused2:

 

[Sandpiper]

I can't seem to get the Sochi videos working at the moment, but I watched the rewatched SDs only a few days ago (thanks, Alba, for uploading them ). I thought Tessa & Scott's twizzles looked excellent on that night--yes, they aren't as consistent in general. Of course they're not 100% in synch or something! But I think it was as good as should be expected from humans, not robots, and I don't think the twizzles were visibly worse than D/W's. I can't speak about the FD though--haven't seen that in a while. Not to mention, I think V/M's SD was better choreographed and performed. I don't think I would've given D/W the higher component scores that night (I'll leave the technical stuff up to people who understand more than me).

I do think D/W deserved the win thanks to their superior FD and more exciting lifts, but I don't agree with the margin of victory. The SD marks basically made it impossible for V/M to win unless D/W went down in the FD. Sorry if I sound like a bitter Canadian--I genuinely do appreciate what D/W have achieved and their FD was magical. But for me, D/W are exciting when they do their big elements: the lifts, their more consistent twizzles, ect. But I find V/M interesting to watch when they simply glide across the ice.

 

[pangtongfan]

I would be very surprised to see either D&W or V&M compete ever again, but I fully agree that if V&M did somehow compete as amateurs again it would never ever be with Marina, regardless of if D&W were there or not.

 

[76olympics]

Well, I am a V/M fan ( see my avatar!) and I'm American. But, as someone said upthread, I don't get the bitterness here. V/M have a gold medal from a superb performance. That won't go away; they could have gone pro or retired in 2010 and they would still be legendary.

I think I like silver and bronze medalists who are happy with their medals. If you've won a gold before ( like V/M, Plushenko) and you won't be happy with less, then I'm not sure you should continue for your own spiritual well-being ( and physical in Plushenko's case). V/M just seemed so anxious in the reality program to me.

I can love and respect skaters and still be aggravated with them at times... LOL.

 

[Sandpiper]

^Nah, I'm not bitter, if you're talking about me. I'm fine with the Sochi results. Just not sure about the marks.

Whether they're happy with silver, whether they want to continue or not... that's up to them. The only thing I care about is what an athlete puts on the ice. I want them to continue simply 'cause I want them to win GPF, and I want to see more of their skating.

 

[Alba]

I don't think they need a new coach. I think they need to listen to the one they have when she makes corrections.

Which coach, the one who was not able to help D&W find the "artistry and chemistry they learned on DWTS"?

I would love to see what Davis/White can do with their new found artistry and chemistry they learned on DWTS. Meryl totally blossomed and found a sensual, sassy side that can play into totally new styles and characters for them to explore on the ice.

I'm sorry but what you said here is a negative comment about their coach, IMO. So, tell me, why they should listen to her?

The reality show footage of them back stage and in rehearsal opened my eyes to the dynamics of their relationship with Marina and Johnny. .

Are you seriously telling me that a reality show opened your eyes about them?

I do think that the Canadian media went too far making their talking points that they took every statement that Tessa or Scott made out of context making them sound to us in the States as poor losers who couldn't handle defeat with grace. When you actually watch the press conference from Tessa and Scott after the skate it doesn't sound that way at all and Scott even defends Marina a bit.

Actually the Canadian media did not invent anything here. Tessa and Scott did sound like that, not only in that press conference but in the both two other shows I saw them on Youtube. One was a morning show, if I'm not mistaken, and the other one was on George Stroumboulopoulos show.
I'm saying this as a diehard V&M fan, which did not agree and never will with the Sochi result or the last year Worlds result.

If they had doubts about their coach they should've said so before, or even better change the coach the year before.
This goes for the Canadian media as well, which said nothing, absolutely nothing, in the last two years - on the contrary, according to them D&W and V&M were like apples and oranges - than suddenly they starts whining about Sochi result.