ISU proposal - Rule 108 - age limitations

[gkelly]

The short program (technical program) , by intention, was created as part of the move away from compulsory figures. In figures, every skater traced exactly the same patterns and then the judges decided who did it best. Free skating meant free – do whatever you can. The Zayak rules, and the later “balanced program” rules under the IJS, came in to prevent competitors from just concentrating on one skill repeated over and over. The triple Axel did pose a dilemma – at one time the riles permitted and encouraged a skater to do a double Axel for the required “Axel type jump” and then a triple Axel/double toe for the required combination, thus loading up on Axels contrary to the spirit of what the short program was all about.

I don't think the problem was so much skaters doing solo 2A as required and 3A in the jump combination.

In the 1970s and 80s, the solo jump was always a specified double jump preceded by steps or other skating movements, and one of the jumps in the combination was a specified double jump.

As of the 1989 season, the requirements were loosened up so that skaters could choose which takeoff to use for the jump out of steps, and which takeoffs to use for both of the jumps in the combination. For men, all these jumps could now be triple; for women, only one of the jumps in the combination.

The problem came a year or two later, when several men chose to do the same triple jump both as the first jump in the combination and also as the jump out of steps. A few (I believe Browning, Eldredge, Petrenko, and Stojko) chose to do 3A combination and also 3A as the solo jump, as well as the then-required double axel. (And Wylie was doing 3Lz+2T and solo 3Lz. There may have been others as well.)

That was what was considered overloading on axels and led to the rule change that forbade using the same jump in more than one SP jump element, which is still in effect.

As years went by the distinction between the two programs became increasingly blurred – raising the question of why there is a short program at all. The best justification seems to be so that skaters (and audiences?) won’t get too bored during the season just preparing and refining one program over and over.

True.

There are still stricter requirements in the SP than in the FS, but the distinction is much less clear than earlier in the history of the SP. Or, for that matter, the history of the well-balanced free skate.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

What? No way man. Muravieva or Kostornaia 3As are beauty. While Trusova's quads excited even the most austere and bias international viewers. Bazyluk's talent makes lebron seem as a random street baller - literally a wonder of history to see her skate. Genetic advantage is the name of every sport and physical endeavour in general. And artistry doesnt absolve this matter because look at ballerinas. Trying to penalize genetic gift would kill anything of the like on the spot with zero redemption.

Wholeheartedly agree. And the ultra C elements should be more encouraged/practiced harder

 

[DancingCactus]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they went back to making the SP more restrictive but changing the requirements every season, a bit like in ID? Eg, one season the single jump has to be a loop, there has to be a layback spin, do what you want with the rest of the program? The next year it will be the flip and a camel spin etc? Then they could actually compare required elements and use GOE properly for a change?

Totally off topic, sorry.

 

[Mathman]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they went back to making the SP more restrictive but changing the requirements every season, a bit like in ID? Eg, one season the single jump has to be a loop, there has to be a layback spin, do what you want with the rest of the program? The next year it will be the flip and a camel spin etc? Then they could actually compare required elements and use GOE properly for a change?

That would be interesting, but there might be a situation where by bad luck a top skater's nemisis jump might be the very one chosen in a crucial year. Nancy Kerrigan had problems with combos featuring a loop jump at the end. When the requirements specified a double or triple loop combo, she had to improvise with 2Lo+3T. (Thanks to gkelly for telling me that the last time this question came up. )

Kristi Yamaguchi hated -- of all things -- the Salchow, and in fact she flubbed it (in the LP) at the1992 Olympics.

 

[Mathematician]

Wouldn't it be interesting if they went back to making the SP more restrictive but changing the requirements every season, a bit like in ID? Eg, one season the single jump has to be a loop, there has to be a layback spin, do what you want with the rest of the program? The next year it will be the flip and a camel spin etc? Then they could actually compare required elements and use GOE properly for a change?

Totally off topic, sorry.

That would introduce too much luck into a sport which already isnt particularly concrete and objective. We need to retain as much structure and consistency as possible. Though it sounds like a cool idea at first thought.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

So they're both unique, as in not what we typically see. Perhaps I should have used the term "rare." That wasn't really my point, though. With Deanna returning successfully, she's become a symbol of longevity...different from all the teenagers that retire early from overuse injuries. My point was that we shouldn't forget that she  was one of those teens. She didn't do something spectacular to make it through that stage.

What's spectacular about her is her return, her ability to restore her skills, learn a new discipline, and compete at an elite level. She proves it can be done at an older age, but she's not really an example of how to keep teens from having career-ending injuries.

That's fine. I just wanted to make sure Zoe's comeback wasn't forgotten about.

And you know what, I learnt something writing that post. I didn't realise that Deanna was so young when she got injured and had to retire. Of course, all the information was there, so I could have worked it out. But I just didn't think to work out that bit. All I thought of working out was how long she was out of action.

I was already in awe of what Deanna had achieved, but I am even more in awe now. Let's face it, she was still just a kid when she retired. But when she came back, she was a totally different person. I would go further than you, and say that rather than restoring her skills, she had to learn them again from scratch.

Never mind Diana Prince, Deanna Stellato is Wonder Woman.



CaroLiza_fan

 

[yyzskater]

If the proposal passes, would it apply to this year or next?

And do you think teams like Pedersen/Chen would reconsider getting back together if they got an extra year in Jr? While I don't know if age was the only issue, I'm sure it was a significant factor. I don't think either of them have found partners yet.

 

[4everchan]

If the proposal passes, would it apply to this year or next?

And do you think teams like Pedersen/Chen would reconsider getting back together if they got an extra year in Jr? While I don't know if age was the only issue, I'm sure it was a significant factor. I don't think either of them have found partners yet.

i doubt it. they were aware that the rules may change... if they had wanted to continue together, they would have waited.