Men's short
- Thread starter ks777
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Moi aussi.....................I respect his technical abilities but frankly, Joubert has never done anything for me re his skating. Ok, let the barbs begin.
The event is in France, maybe he got PCS for crowd reaction?
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- Mar 25, 2008
PCS definitions are too comlicated (someone posted them on the predictions thread - crazy!) so the judges do as they please. I don't think the PCS scoring is being done correctly; as I've written before, the five components shouldn't always be so strongly correlated.
It was evil. Eurosport always has scheduling issues, I hope at least I'll be able to watch Euros uninterrupted. Worlds will be in the middle of the night here so it doesn't matter to me as much when the broadcast starts.Winnipeg said:
I completely agree, but the PCS seem to be used just to rank the skaters in the order the judges want them to be in (based primarily on the technical performance of the program), rather than a true indication of their actual abilities as far as choreography, skating skills, etc, are concerned. I don't really mind that, but then they should at least stop breaking the score down into 5 components. Just come up with one score and be done with it.
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hmmm, I certainly did not interpret the comment as trying to force anyone into being a fan of anyone .....frankly, it is just personal preference and subjectivity which in reality is at the core of why FS sometimes takes a beating. People complain about the judging when they perceive that their preferred style is beaten by a skater who is not their preferred style - whatever that style may be - unless of course it is so obvious in cannot be debated.
I prefer musicality and transisions, footwork, along with the jumps. Someone just jumping does nothing for me without the other aspects. However, if a skater gets both together, it is great. Sounds like you are promoting exactly the same thing you are complaining about - wanting to force everyone into watching male he-men athletes only instead of a variety of different and personal styles........
Call it "the quality of skating" then. "The degree of enjoyability". Doesn't matter, Joubert did beat Buttle on that, whatever it was.
Sounds like you are promoting exactly the same thing you are complaining about - wanting to force everyone into watching male he-men athletes only instead of a variety of different and personal styles........
The FS universe is DOMINATED by fans who are only into femnine skaters, any guy who's deviated from this will be immediately lashed out with frenzy. Remember Evan? he's not artistic, I hate his masculity, blah, blah, blah. It's almost like stepping into a stereotypical gayish world.
Brian and Evan are rare type in FS, and the vitriol they have to endure by other fans is incredible. I think this is a reflection of the very narrow demographic profile of rabid fans ****
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Careful there, there is a little sting of homophobia in that post.
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- Jul 11, 2003
It probably is Take Five which is based on a Brazilian motif. I like the music and I like Kozuka, but I've got to see some change of pace music and not just pretty background music.
Yes, Joubert did beat Buttle in PCS and in my opinion it was a perfect example of how a skater is being held up by judges. Buttle definetely should have won the PCS as well.
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- Oct 30, 2006
CCTV5 is now showing men's SP. I would say i like Joubert SP, (despite the costume)
EDIT: Just saw a picture of it, Brian always does tend to have over the top costumes, only Time, Matrix, and the Untouchables were good costumes.
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- Jan 2, 2007
I do not understand Brian Joubert's PCS marks either. Yes the man can jump...but artistry and transitions? err...no. He skates like elvis stojko...and Elvis was not known as an artist. Come on....
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- Feb 4, 2008
Just come back from the SP.
OMG!!!!!
Firstly, I don't know how you guys who watched it on tv felt it, but the atmosphere was rubbish. Usually it's warm and buzzing, but this year we were all half dead! That's because just before, during the OD, we had to put up with loads of school kids!! UGH!
Coming back to Brian: Ouch! I wanna cry!!!!
It was really wierd
Yesterday I read a report on the practice session saying that Brian was having trouble with his quad. I was really surprised this afternoon during the warm-up to see him only working on his axel. Anyway, this may have been to avoid falling during the warm-up and losing his confidence.
It was obvious when he came on the ice that he was nervouse.
He popped his combo, but the rest was FANTASTIC! He just put all his energy into the rest of his program.
I was surprised at his high grade.
I really am worried about him though. The expression on his face at the end of his program was one that I haven't seen since the olys. Had this mistake just been a stupid one, he'd have been angry, but he wouldn't have had the expression he had. There was a certain seriousness.
In an interview with l'equipe, he' said himself that it wasn't a lack of concentration -he just blocked.
What I'm worried about is that this seems to be something that's going to follow him all season. I think that the master's really hit him hard and that since he's been in a bad mental shape.
As for tomorrow: Chan and Kozuka have no pressure, they're probably going to skate well. Brian has said that the TEB is his main goal this season. Seeing the huge gap of points between him and Chan, I think he just just go out and give it all he's got take risks: 2 quads etc... It's the only way a) he can grab earn enough points to win b) try and put pressure on Chan and Kozuka to fall.
OMG!!!!!
Firstly, I don't know how you guys who watched it on tv felt it, but the atmosphere was rubbish. Usually it's warm and buzzing, but this year we were all half dead! That's because just before, during the OD, we had to put up with loads of school kids!! UGH!
Coming back to Brian: Ouch! I wanna cry!!!!
It was really wierd
Yesterday I read a report on the practice session saying that Brian was having trouble with his quad. I was really surprised this afternoon during the warm-up to see him only working on his axel. Anyway, this may have been to avoid falling during the warm-up and losing his confidence.
It was obvious when he came on the ice that he was nervouse.
He popped his combo, but the rest was FANTASTIC! He just put all his energy into the rest of his program.
I was surprised at his high grade.
I really am worried about him though. The expression on his face at the end of his program was one that I haven't seen since the olys. Had this mistake just been a stupid one, he'd have been angry, but he wouldn't have had the expression he had. There was a certain seriousness.
In an interview with l'equipe, he' said himself that it wasn't a lack of concentration -he just blocked.
What I'm worried about is that this seems to be something that's going to follow him all season. I think that the master's really hit him hard and that since he's been in a bad mental shape.
As for tomorrow: Chan and Kozuka have no pressure, they're probably going to skate well. Brian has said that the TEB is his main goal this season. Seeing the huge gap of points between him and Chan, I think he just just go out and give it all he's got take risks: 2 quads etc... It's the only way a) he can grab earn enough points to win b) try and put pressure on Chan and Kozuka to fall.
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The FS universe is DOMINATED by fans who are only into femnine skaters, any guy who's deviated from this will be immediately lashed out with frenzy. Remember Evan? he's not artistic, I hate his masculity, blah, blah, blah. It's almost like stepping into a stereotypical gayish world.
Brian and Evan are rare type in FS, and the vitriol they have to endure by other fans is incredible. I think this is a reflection of the very narrow demographic profile of rabid fans ****
Your post was edited, but I did pick up on your homophobia and I also caught your demeaning comment towards liberal women.
I suppose in your mind anything we like must be "bad" because only the rigid definition of what society considers to be "masculine" is valid, while anything that falls outside of those limits is automatically inferior and worthless. 
I resent your claim that any man who expresses music well must be "feminine" or "gay" (and again, I emphasize the fact that anything outside of the "masculine" norm is frequently belittled by most people even though they fail to realize just how subjective/relative those terms actually are). I can see why you would easily "dismiss" Weir. However, I'll remind you that there are skaters like Browning, Verner, Berntsson and Andreev who certainly don't fit the stereotypes, but there's no denying that they feel each note with every part of their soul when they skate.
Whatever criticisms Joubert and Lysacek may have received for their presentation skills within the figure skating universe, I'm sure it's NOTHING compared to the hate/discrimination/insults that young boys who take up the sport must endure in the outside world. I have no doubt they have to put up with a lot of crap from their friends, peers and sometimes even their own families. Who knows how many talented youths figure skating has lost simply because these lads didn't have the necessary resources to combat everyone's ignorance before finally deciding it was easier to quit instead. Now THAT'S tragic.
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- Jul 11, 2003
You have to look at the points accumulated by all the skaters thus far and determine how much Brian needs to make the Finals. It's unimportant now who won what GP. It's the Finals that count, and who gets a chance to win or revenge.
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Your post was edited, but I did pick up on your homophobia and I also caught your demeaning comment towards liberal women.
I resent your claim that any man who expresses music well must be "feminine" or "gay" (and again, I emphasize the fact that anything outside of the "masculine" norm is frequently belittled by most people even though they fail to realize just how subjective/relative those terms actually are). I can see why you would easily "dismiss" Weir. However, I'll remind you that there are skaters like Browning, Verner, Berntsson and Andreev who certainly don't fit the stereotypes, but there's no denying that they feel each note with every part of their soul when they skate.
Whatever criticisms Joubert and Lysacek may have received for their presentation skills within the figure skating universe, I'm sure it's NOTHING compared to the hate/discrimination/insults that young boys who take up the sport must endure in the outside world. I have no doubt they have to put up with a lot of crap from their friends, peers and sometimes even their own families. Who knows how many talented youths figure skating has lost simply because these lads didn't have the necessary resources to combat everyone's ignorance before finally deciding it was easier to quit instead. Now THAT'S tragic.
BRAVO, siberia82! :agree:
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- May 17, 2008
Oh, no, Brian.. He popped out on his quad ? Poor Brian..:no:
Although I’m glad Patrick did great job .
8 points away from top sounds a lot for Brian. Hope Brian will show his best in FP.
I love to watch men’s events because there are still variety of style of skaters. Although I really miss Sandhu and Lambiel. Buttle also has his own artistic style although not my taste.
I often feel Brian’s artistry is underrated by skating fans ( I can also say the same for Miki Ando’s in ladies, especially for her short programs, for example her Scheherazade. Although Miki’s new LP Giselle is not so good, so far. IMO. )
Brian has energy and power, yes, but in my eyes, it’s not only that . He knows how to move artistically and his movements are balanced with music, but not with soft graceful movements. It’s a different style. And he does have a sense of theater.
His expression is good, I don’t see it’s over acting, or looks fake like I saw some other skaters who are often high rated by judges and skating fans. In his earlier years, I was unable to see his artistry, in those days, he was more robotic and not really well balanced. But when I saw his performances in French gala after last Olympics, I saw that he can be very musical in his own way, IMO. I’m not saying always, many of his gala numbers were boring to me, but his last Worlds FP was fantastic, I thought. I have no complaint his PCS were higher than Buttle for that performance. Really.
Patrick, I don’t consider him as a true artist yet, but he has great skating skills , and something attractive about his skating , and his movements are getting more and more balanced and connected with music. And I often feel he is fun to watch.
I don’t really know what the big deal is about masculine skating and feminine skating. I’ve never sorted into categories to watch artistry in that way. Maybe some people have their own image of that. And I guess they are actually not even watching any artistry during the performances.
It’s subjective, but I can see who has their own personality, style and has well yin- yang balanced beauty, including energy and power, whether in a graceful way or in a more powerful dynamic way. Doing only all soft graceful movements is also not well balanced artistically for me, which I see many of the ladies skaters are that way. Must have some ups and downs, power and soft, with every detailed movements including arms, hands and fingertips. And body line, too. The body line from the shoulders to the elbows also very important. Must have balance between softness and power. If a skater does all the same movements, it becomes imbalanced. IMO. And it makes me bored.
Also ,doing a lot of choreography doesn’t mean it’s art. It’s how they do the choreography, among other things.
Ryan Bradley - his skating skill may not be so high but I see he knows how to dance since especially this season. While he was performing “Saturday night fever“ in 2005 - 2006, I was unable to see any dancing skill with flexibility from his moves. But that’s changed now. His dancing is much improved.
Kozuka - so far, I don’t see he has developed his own personality or skating style yet. Rather boring for me. Sorry. Hope will find his original style in the future.
Although I’m glad Patrick did great job .
8 points away from top sounds a lot for Brian. Hope Brian will show his best in FP.
I love to watch men’s events because there are still variety of style of skaters. Although I really miss Sandhu and Lambiel. Buttle also has his own artistic style although not my taste.
I often feel Brian’s artistry is underrated by skating fans ( I can also say the same for Miki Ando’s in ladies, especially for her short programs, for example her Scheherazade. Although Miki’s new LP Giselle is not so good, so far. IMO. )
Brian has energy and power, yes, but in my eyes, it’s not only that . He knows how to move artistically and his movements are balanced with music, but not with soft graceful movements. It’s a different style. And he does have a sense of theater.
His expression is good, I don’t see it’s over acting, or looks fake like I saw some other skaters who are often high rated by judges and skating fans. In his earlier years, I was unable to see his artistry, in those days, he was more robotic and not really well balanced. But when I saw his performances in French gala after last Olympics, I saw that he can be very musical in his own way, IMO. I’m not saying always, many of his gala numbers were boring to me, but his last Worlds FP was fantastic, I thought. I have no complaint his PCS were higher than Buttle for that performance. Really.
Patrick, I don’t consider him as a true artist yet, but he has great skating skills , and something attractive about his skating , and his movements are getting more and more balanced and connected with music. And I often feel he is fun to watch.
I don’t really know what the big deal is about masculine skating and feminine skating. I’ve never sorted into categories to watch artistry in that way. Maybe some people have their own image of that. And I guess they are actually not even watching any artistry during the performances.
It’s subjective, but I can see who has their own personality, style and has well yin- yang balanced beauty, including energy and power, whether in a graceful way or in a more powerful dynamic way. Doing only all soft graceful movements is also not well balanced artistically for me, which I see many of the ladies skaters are that way. Must have some ups and downs, power and soft, with every detailed movements including arms, hands and fingertips. And body line, too. The body line from the shoulders to the elbows also very important. Must have balance between softness and power. If a skater does all the same movements, it becomes imbalanced. IMO. And it makes me bored.
Also ,doing a lot of choreography doesn’t mean it’s art. It’s how they do the choreography, among other things.
Ryan Bradley - his skating skill may not be so high but I see he knows how to dance since especially this season. While he was performing “Saturday night fever“ in 2005 - 2006, I was unable to see any dancing skill with flexibility from his moves. But that’s changed now. His dancing is much improved.
Kozuka - so far, I don’t see he has developed his own personality or skating style yet. Rather boring for me. Sorry. Hope will find his original style in the future.
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