Music Ideas for All Skaters

[jyshin]

^
Urrr...Mao..."gorgeous"...yes, indeed...then, what?...
Maybe, this is what Joe was talking about a couple of posts ago

... Maybe these young skaters can go beyond background music. I apologize but I want to see first if they are of the calibre to skate to such serious music...

Wasn't there anyone to address this question to Mao? Tarasova... Nicole...
Something tells me that if this is how Lori Nicole works with her young skaters... I am afraid that her works are going to have hard time cutting through David Wilson's...

Then, is it better not to have any opinion than some questionable ones from Mao? Well~ :scratch:
Despite of all this, Mao won the World title... so why should I complain?

 

[inskate]

Urrr...Mao..."gorgeous"...yes, indeed...then, what?...

And then what? And then you skate it... This was an interview in which she was asked why she choose that music. What was she going to say, "because I want to spin quickly around as the music builds, slow down to do the axel, exit with a flourish of the hand, express the following note of the music with a spreadeagle and arm motion...." She would have bored the reporters to death!

I think the choreography to "Fantasie Impromptu" was brilliant at Skate Canada.

And I don't see anything wrong with how Lori Nichol works. She can't force the skaters to skate to something they don't want. It's not her fault that the programs she choreographs end up being changed (recently she said in an interview that sometimes she can barely recognize her programs). Actually, this season I prefered her programs over Wilson's - about the only Wilson program that I really liked was Yu-Na's EX at Worlds. (And Buttle programs, but they weren't new).

Speaking of Wilson, sometimes I can't help but like his programs because he choreographs for the skaters whom I like (Buttle and Oda are my favourite male skaters), who are very musical... But sometimes the fact that he doesn't let the skaters have more input in their programs causes the skaters to either not relate to program well (YuNa's "Just a Girl" EX), find the programs too difficult (Buttle's "Glenn Gould" LP) or just the programs to not fit the skater at all (Nobu's "FMTTM" EX and both of his LP last year).

Going back to the topic of music selection... I don't think it's easy. the skaters grow up and change, they want to challenge new types of music... Sometimes it's difficult to predict what will suit them best.

I remember the discussion about Mao's music choices back in July 2006. Most of the people at FSU thought that "Czardas" was a great choice, but "Nocturne" was too slow for her. I thought so, too - I remembered her as a joyful, fast skater and it was difficult for me to imagine her skating to music as slow and peaceful as "Nocturne". But in the end, it was "Nocturne" that turned out to be a masterpiece, while the choreography to Czardas, with all the hops and ponytail-tossing quickly became too juniorish for Mao, and when she got rid of those, not much was left.

Since you mention Tarasova... Yes, she adressed the question of musicality and expression, and I thought it was very visible in her SP (especially at Worlds, where it was skated perfectly) and EX. She took Mao to watch ballet performances and arranged for her to take ballet lessons. But, quoting Mao's ballet coach, to achieve great expression you first need great technique, then the freedom of expression will come more naturally. I think both of the choreoraphers' goal was not just to use current Mao's strenght and let her stagnate, but to challenge her with something difficult and force her to improve and address her weaknesses with a goal to develop artistically before the Olympics.
And interesting info: Tarasova said to Mao that if she wants to have better power of expression, she must fall in love.
Mao said in an interview that working the artistic side of her performances will be her main goal in this off-season. There is also a rumour that the wants Tarasova to become her main coach, although this is very difficult, because Tarasova is busy in Russia.

 

[jyshin]

inskate

First of all, thanks a lot for the insightful information.
I especially appreciate the part where Mao bored the reporters to death
That shows more than describing the music 'gorgeous'. It actually shows her musicality right there.
I took the trouble to watch the SC and wonder what made her to change the choreography...maybe the 3A? Anyways, I was able understand how Lori Nicole worked around Mao's thoughts. That was good. However, something tells me David Wilson would have fought harder than Nicole for his work if his skater would change the choreography around like that...

About falling in Love and powerful expression (Tarasova)... I think this includes some sort of heartbreak especially in Fantasie-Impromptu. The music was composed right after Chopin moved to Paris for good, and soon after the move his home country went into war. At the age of twenty, that must have been too much for him to handle... if one doesn't understand this sort of angst, it wouldn't matter how many ballet lessons one gets to take.

In the end, the important part of the maturing process is to know one's own strength. This is often misunderstood as artistic 'stagnation.' I believe that Mao's strength is in her musicality and this is why I insist upon having her skate to the right choice of music and not to a dull transcription.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Mao has good timing and any skater with good timing can skate to any music.
Skaters with rhythm are kind of rare. I thought Mao showed some rhythm just not as much YuNa.

The difference between Voronov and Abbott, is the latter has rhythm.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

JYShin, thanks for all of your wonderful posts about music on these threads! :yes:

 

[Bennett]

Mao's music choice bothered me from the beginning.
I totally agree with Bennett on both of her descriptions of Mao's skating quality and the 'tamed' version of Fantasie-Impromptu.
My argument is, why did she use the Fantasie-Impromptu when there were other music that could better suit Mao's character...like the A-flat major Impromptu, that has her personality... "fresh and peaceful as breeze"...

My question is rather for Lori Nichol. I wonder if she was too quick to search for transcriptions before listening to other Chopin music... I wonder if she even bothered to use anything but the well-known popular piece... My real question is... was she even aware of other Chopin Impromptus besides the popular Fantasie-Impromptu?
Most importantly, why am I afraid to hear Lori's answer?... I am afraid that it is the same reason why her music choice has kept bothering me.

Mao is one of the very few skaters who can communicate with her audience through music. Why not put some extra effort to find the music that would suit her personality?

I agree that A-flat Major Impromptu may be a better match with Mao's personality. I remember when the news came out that Mao would skate to Fantasie-Impromptu, I secretly wished that it was just incorrect information to turn out to be another piece of impromptu. When I watched her Skate Canada performance, however, I was happy that I did not need to worry so much. It has really an interesting balance between the 'gorgeousness' and ‘freshness.’ It was such an unusual interpretation of this music adjusted to the skater's character. As I watch Dai turning the Swan Lake to something very different from the original, I think it okay to have this kind of interesting twist. Besides, it seems very important for figure skaters to pick the music that is well known so that the majority of the audience and judges could relate to it. Perhaps it might be safer for them to play around the interpretations than to pick a totally unknown piece of music.

To me, Mao sounded a bit ambivalent about the interpretations. Initially she said that it was gorgeous music. Then she described it as 'clean and pretty' (清楚 "Seiso" in Japanese). Indeed, I thought that her original costume was very well thought-out to match Lori's interpretations. Then she eventually changed the costume and asked them to make it 'gorgeous.'

I think that she doesn't necessarily need to pick melancholic pieces to look mature. Although Fantasie-Impromptu was so wonderfully performed thanks to the unconventional transcriptions, Nichol's beautiful choreo, and Mao's superb musicality, I feel that there are other mature music in the world that would go better with Mao's own personality.

As intake says, however, I acknowledge it's difficult to predict in what ways the skater may grow. I still remember Mao only two and a half years ago at 2005 GPF hugging the Dora-Emon stuffed animal aside, greeting with a Sumo Wrestler, and comparing the size of her hand with his
I also understand that Mao and Lori wanted to challenge something difficult. I heard that her mom also wanted her to try something challenging when Mao chose the 2006-7 music. Then she picked two pieces that were very different from each other.

 

[Bennett]

Speaking of Wilson, sometimes I can't help but like his programs because he choreographs for the skaters whom I like (Buttle and Oda are my favourite male skaters), who are very musical... But sometimes the fact that he doesn't let the skaters have more input in their programs causes the skaters to either not relate to program well (YuNa's "Just a Girl" EX), find the programs too difficult (Buttle's "Glenn Gould" LP) or just the programs to not fit the skater at all (Nobu's "FMTTM" EX and both of his LP last year).

Doesn't he? I don't know how Wilson works, and feel really interested in knowing more about him. To me, he is one of the most fascinating choreographers out there. I think that he has very sensitive spirit and is an artist in soul. I'm excited about seeing his next season's works.

I actually liked Nobu's Tchaikovsky very much. He has great speed, dynamic flow, and natural spring. That went well with that dynamic music.

I wonder why Glenn Gould didn't work well with Jeff even though the theme of the music seems to have been along the line with other music he skated to before, i.e., serious, calm, fragmented, postmodern twist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLFa8-Qf25Q
Other programs of his look no less complicated than that one. But I feel that that music might have been a bit more difficult to skate to. It was very beautiful, poetic music, but lacked a climax. The overall theme was sensitive, calm, and introversive. That makes it a bit difficult to skate to as a LP. I actually wonder if it might have fitted the choreographer himself even better than Jeff (Just my impression. I don't know much about Wilson. I only know some of his programs. But I also had the same impression on his Naqoyqatsi).
All the unconventional changes in tempos might have been another challenge for the skater. It's not easy to switch around. I feel that that might have contributed to creating some of the empty spaces.
I also felt that the straight line steps with such a slow tempo might have been a bit difficult to skate to.
Perhaps it might have worked better as the SP music?

 

[Bennett]

Mirai's New LP Music

Please pardon me for multiple posts. But I just heard elsewhere that Mirai's new LP music is Orpheus in the Underworld by Jacques Offenbach!

http://sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/winter/skate/figure/column/200804/at00016996.html (news article in Japanese)

 

[myasada]

Please pardon me for multiple posts. But I just heard elsewhere that Mirai's new LP music is Orpheus in the Underworld by Jacques Offenbach!

http://sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/winter/skate/figure/column/200804/at00016996.html (news article in Japanese)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0WR...2&page=1&search_pos=-175970&k_type=0100&keywo

 

[aoife]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0WR...2&page=1&search_pos=-175970&k_type=0100&keywo

I'm glad that Mirai chose this music for her long program next season. Its lightness suits her well But I think she will need something slower and softner in-between, especially for her spiral sequences. Maybe other passages from "Orpheus in the Underworld"?

 

[Mathman]

Orpheus in the Underworld by Jacques Offenbach!

The Cancan! I love it. With choreography by the Radio City Rockettes!

 

[Wrlmy]

It perfectly suits Mirai!! Is it confirmed?
My only concern is some people would find it juniorish.

 

[Mathman]

It perfectly suits Mirai!! Is it confirmed?
My only concern is some people would find it juniorish.

Juniorish indeed! That's just what the musical establishment thought of Jaques Offenbach (real name, Jacob Eberst).

He thumbed his nose at lugubious high-brow melodrama and was the primary inventor of the "operetta," or light comic opera. This departure from the straightjacket of classicl music in the romantic era pointed the way for Gilbert and Sullivan and eventually led to popular musical theater. Orpheus, with it's carrousing gods and heros, was quite scandalous at the time.

 

[Bennett]

It perfectly suits Mirai!! Is it confirmed?
My only concern is some people would find it juniorish.

Well, it's not confirmed yet; it's not the info from her HP. It's a news article reporting it as the plan heard from Mirai. For this news agency, it seems confirmed info although I don't personally place 100% trust in news articles. I'd wait for her HP updates to confirm.

I agree with you that it's juniorish. But judging by the way she selected transcriptions for Mao's LP, Nichol seems to be good at finding interesting transcriptions. So it may turn out to be more mature than expected.

 

[Tex]

One of my favorite new icedance teams is Emily Samuelson and Evan Bates.

I really like the song "Oraanu Pi" by E.S. Postumus and think it suits them very well. Here's a clip: http://www.imeem.com/people/AlVguiY/music/FwA56URI/es_posthumus_oraanu_pi/

I also like the Finding Neverland Soundtrack. I think they could play the parts of Peter Pan (minus the green tights) and Wendy to portray. Here are a few clips: http://www.imeem.com/people/sNjf5a/music/7DigG3-4/soundtrack_neverland/

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Never...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1209087707&sr=1-3

I also like the idea of them skating to the soundtrack to "The Princess Bride." Again there are the characters of Buttercup and Westley. Here is some clips:

http://www.imeem.com/sokai/music/eHF1JpPb/mark_knopfler_storybook_love/

http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Brid...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1209087630&sr=1-1


I also like the soundtrack to the movie "The Man From Snowy River" for them.
Here is a clip from the soundtrack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMR7oHJoXTA&feature=related

 

[Bennett]

Music for Nobu

I'd love to see Nobu skating to Dvorak Violin Concerto in A Minor Op 53. Nobu has been growing into such a classy skater. I think his spring and speed really shine in this powerful, dramatic music. I also think that he looks nicer in ethnic music like this, rather than Beethoven, Mozart etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8oeLEVgA0s

I think "Finlandia" by Sibelius also would be good for him because he has such a dynamic flow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMBR0S5784o

Joannie

I'd really love to see her skate to Sibelius or Dvorak. She is one of the few powerful female skaters who also have grace on the ice.

Sibelius Violin Concerto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OlI0RLQJoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2tklQp2Cr4&NR=1

 

[jyshin]

Bennett

One thing that stroke me while reading your suggestions is a good deal of violin music.
It makes wonder if there is a particular reason... or is it just the music that you happen to like...

In my theory, violin sound can penetrate through the echo-filled arena better than any other string instrument.

Oh, well... just a thought...

 

[Bennett]

Bennett

One thing that stroke me while reading your suggestions is a good deal of violin music.
It makes wonder if there is a particular reason... or is it just the music that you happen to like...

In my theory, violin sound can penetrate through the echo-filled area better than any other string instrument.

Oh, well... just a thought...

Wow, good catch, jyshin. I feel as if I were talking to one of my music teachers . I used to play the piano, but also adore violin. I wish I could play... So perhaps I just naturally come up with many sonatas for violin & piano or violin concertos. Many of the violin concertos demonstrate quite a character, which I believe work well in FS programs, esp. in LP. Although many piano concertos also have such a character, I feel that piano is such a self-sufficient, complete instrument by itself so that it may not convey a solo voice that stands out just as strongly as that of violin. Perhaps that's the reason why I came up with all the violin music. I am kind of projecting the solo violin to the skater on the ice. But I love listening to all kinds of classical music including choirs.

You said before that Johnny was your violin man. Who else would you think goes well with violin music?

 

[jyshin]

You said before that Johnny was your violin man. Who else would you think goes well with violin music?

This is not easy... I might be able to come up with an idea later... but I can't think of any other 'violin' skater as of now. Also, it was the 'Red Violin' sound track that I related him to the violin... There was something about the unbelievable journey of the violin that, I simply felt, Johnny could portray better than anyone else.

 

[Bennett]

Johnny

Elgar Violin Sonata:

This is a very dramatic, romantic piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLwQhIZA-io&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtsmwC8WcCQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMlGV4loogI&feature=related

Franck Violin Sonata:

This is very delicate and beautiful. I really love this piece. Good for SP or slow part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHkG1rOIgJg

Debussy Sonata:

Poetic and dreamy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItUzHeWx2xE&NR=1