Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations

[DizzyFrenchie]

I hoped that the French Federation would react in a better way but I'm actually not surprised it went down that way (I guess us French people are getting accustomed of being let down by the federation ><). Morgan is a member of the federal council of the FFSG, so I guess this was predictable but so disappointing.

Thank you for this information. Even if it explains some partialty on their side, it is no excuse to such a hopeless dismissal, putting all blame on Brennan, with personal attack furthermore.

 

[Tavi...]

Thank you for this information. Even if it explains some partialty on their side, it is no excuse to such a hopeless dismissal, putting all blame on Brennan, with personal attack furthermore.

Could you or one of our other French posters please download or copy the text of the press release? The link is not working for me - I keep getting a message that the server is down. Thanks.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Here is their statement in (even poorer than my own) English :

Paris, December 16th, 2019
The French Federation of Ice Sports (FFSG) has been made aware of the
allegations aired by a journalist at the daily publication USA TODAY. A
journalist who is well known throughout the skating world for scandalrelated
articles, in this particular case a photograph of an inappropriate
nature is said to have been sent to a young female skater by Morgan
Ciprès.
The FFSG has noted that the media attack has been particularly intense in
its targeting of two trainers of Mr Ciprès in Sysley Chapel (Florida) : Ms Silvia
Fontana and her husband Mr John Zimmermann whose results, both on the
American and international stage, have attracted great admiration, as
well as against a third trainer, Mr Vinny Dispenza.
Without wishing to excuse any act should it turn out to be true, the FFSG
points out that it would appear to date from November 2017, and that
there has been no related complaint made to the relevant authorities in
the USA against Morgan Ciprès. The FFSG has therefore asked the skater in
question to keep it up to date with any pertinent developments. In light of
the information at its disposal, the FFSG has no cause not to place its
confidence in him.

 

[saturdaysun]

We're not talking about SafeSport, since I don't think they can ban Cipres anyway. My statement is to those proposing that athletes sit out pending an investigation when an accusation is made, before both sides have had an opportunity to explain what happened. Yes, special circumstances (i.e. continued threat of sexual assault, safety of children, etc) require more decisive, immediate action. That could be the case here. But many people have already come to conclusions here (the two men were grooming young skaters, Sylvia issued threats to protect the team she coached when she had a duty to report what happened, etc.). The allegations all may be true, or possibly only some may be true. Four reputations have been tarnished and, if what we read in USA Today is true, they deserve to be. But I'd like to hear both sides.

This is based on what was reported in the article. You may choose to believe Christine Brennan or the victim is lying, but choosing to believe them is not outrageous. Regardless, fans on a message board do not owe the accused the benefit of the doubt, nor do we have any power to actually "ruin" anyone or anything. The investigation will run its course no matter what we do. All this hand-wringing over their "reputation" -- rather than the potentially real harm suffered by their victims -- is disingenuous at best. Have you heard anyone say "even if the investigation proves they were innocent, I want their lives to be ruined"? No, because that's ludicrous. But choosing to believe the accusations are credible is not.

 

[Tavi...]

Here is their statement in (even poorer than my own) English :

Paris, December 16th, 2019
The French Federation of Ice Sports (FFSG) has been made aware of the
allegations aired by a journalist at the daily publication USA TODAY. A
journalist who is well known throughout the skating world for scandalrelated
articles, in this particular case a photograph of an inappropriate
nature is said to have been sent to a young female skater by Morgan
Ciprès.
The FFSG has noted that the media attack has been particularly intense in
its targeting of two trainers of Mr Ciprès in Sysley Chapel (Florida) : Ms Silvia
Fontana and her husband Mr John Zimmermann whose results, both on the
American and international stage, have attracted great admiration, as
well as against a third trainer, Mr Vinny Dispenza.
Without wishing to excuse any act should it turn out to be true, the FFSG
points out that it would appear to date from November 2017, and that
there has been no related complaint made to the relevant authorities in
the USA against Morgan Ciprès. The FFSG has therefore asked the skater in
question to keep it up to date with any pertinent developments. In light of
the information at its disposal, the FFSG has no cause not to place its
confidence in him.

Thank you!

 

[Edwin]

Here is their statement in (even poorer than my own) English :

Paris, December 16th, 2019
The French Federation of Ice Sports (FFSG) has been made aware of the
allegations aired by a journalist at the daily publication USA TODAY. A
journalist who is well known throughout the skating world for scandalrelated
articles, in this particular case a photograph of an inappropriate
nature is said to have been sent to a young female skater by Morgan
Ciprès.
The FFSG has noted that the media attack has been particularly intense in
its targeting of two trainers of Mr Ciprès in Sysley Chapel (Florida) : Ms Silvia
Fontana and her husband Mr John Zimmermann whose results, both on the
American and international stage, have attracted great admiration, as
well as against a third trainer, Mr Vinny Dispenza.
Without wishing to excuse any act should it turn out to be true, the FFSG
points out that it would appear to date from November 2017, and that
there has been no related complaint made to the relevant authorities in
the USA against Morgan Ciprès. The FFSG has therefore asked the skater in
question to keep it up to date with any pertinent developments. In light of
the information at its disposal, the FFSG has no cause not to place its
confidence in him.

So completely ignoring the statement that Cipres' dick, tattoo and all, has been 'admired' by the USA Today reporter on the phone of the girl? At least I hope the evidence is this direct.

Why does FFSG even bother defending the other parties involved, citing 'their results have attracted great admiration'?

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Maybe because they are still training Kévin Aymoz? I am quite worried for him. Not as much as for Vanessa James of course.

 

[Harriet]

Maybe because they are still training Kévin Aymoz? I am quite worried for him. Not as much as for Vanessa James of course.

Mae-Berenice Meite works with them too.

 

[Edwin]

All the more reason to demand a quick and proper conclusion to this case.

And to FFSG, 13 year old girls skating at the same rink obviously don't matter.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

This is based on what was reported in the article. You may choose to believe Christine Brennan or the victim is lying, but choosing to believe them is not outrageous. Regardless, fans on a message board do not owe the accused the benefit of the doubt, nor do we have any power to actually "ruin" anyone or anything. The investigation will run its course no matter what we do. All this hand-wringing over their "reputation" -- rather than the potentially real harm suffered by their victims -- is disingenuous at best. Have you heard anyone say "even if the investigation proves they were innocent, I want their lives to be ruined"? No, because that's ludicrous. But choosing to believe the accusations are credible is not.

I belive the accuser and I don't think the she wants anyone's life to be ruined. However, I can't be 100% sure that everything reported by Brennan is accurate when she is implicating quite a number of people here. What I don't like is people trying to shut down civil conversation by saying if you are wanting to hear both sides of something, that you are anti-victim. There is not one person on here that wants children to suffer or see genuinely guilty people get away with bad behavior. Not one.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Tonight my wife told me about some piece of investigative journalism she had read. A team set up a fake Instagram account for a child (using an adult who had doctored photos designed to make her look like pre-teen ---- no children actually involved). Within an hour, all sorts of filth had been lobbed towards the girl. Propositions, invites to send photos, unsolicited photos sent... terrible stuff. I really had no idea that there is a thriving child-predation presence on these social media sites. It is shocking.

Sadly, Washington State is full of child sexual preditors. The police dept can run stings any time it wants using methods similar to what you explained and haul them in like sardines in a net. My county lets me know when a sexual preditor of any kind is released into the country from prison. Those would be the documented registered ones. There are nearly 1600 registered sex offenders in my County cause the state dumps them HERE instead of Seattle. http://spokanecares.org/sex-offenders-spokane.php

 

[champagnerain]

French fed just made a press release (in english and in french) :
https://ffsg.org/communique-de-presse-article-usa-today-10-12-19/
I'm just speechless.

Having clicked on this almost makes me angrier than having just read the actual text. Obviously, the text is the problem, but is it a great idea to put your press release about sexual misconduct toward a minor on a cheerful pdf covered in snowflakes and delightful winter graphics?

 

[CoyoteChris]

I belive the accuser and I don't think the she wants anyone's life to be ruined. However, I can't be 100% sure that everything reported by Brennan is accurate when she is implicating quite a number of people here. What I don't like is people trying to shut down civil conversation by saying if you are wanting to hear both sides of something, that you are anti-victim. There is not one person on here that wants children to suffer or see genuinely guilty people get away with bad behavior. Not one.

Plus one. "Like" Well said.
This needs to be talked about by everyone who cares about kids, their safety, as well as the safety of the rest of us. Somehow it has become the elephant in the room, even after a high profile child abuser killed himself in his jail cell. Same thing with teaching women how to defend themselves and their children during physical attacks.
I was hoping to point to Japan as a country that deals harshly with child abuse, but perhaps that is not a good example.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...ssault-japan-girl-victim-170307101413024.html

 

[moonvine]

Have there been any figure skaters who have had to sit out during an SafeSport investigation? Any examples from other sports you're thinking of? Do you think that SafeSport doesn't require "damning evidence of wrongdoing" before they hand out temporary bans? What makes you think that?

According to SS itself, temporary suspensions during investigations are issued in 2% of the cases, yet so many commenters here and elsewhere like to pretend that SS bans people left and right based on hearsay... :sarcasm:

I do not know of any other figure skaters, no. But I do know of at least two gymnasts. I have posted about them before but will repeat myself.

Alex Naddour: I believe he was only suspended, though this article says “banned,” by USA Gymnastics. He said Safesport didn’t inform him of the allegations. He was suspended in June of 2018 and reinstated in November 2018. He doesn’t comment on it due to privacy concerns of all involved, which is a lot better than I would have managed. I would have been livid. Wikipedia states USA gymnastics first got allegations in 2012???


https://www.google.com/amp/s/olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/06/21/alex-naddour-banned-gymnastics/amp/


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Naddour#Gymnastics_career

Dan Witenstein, a coach, was cleared that same year: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/812996002

Then you have things that are sports related, but not Safesport related. The Duke Lacrosse team comes immediately to mind. There was no trial, but the players accused of rape got a 20 million dollar settlement from Duke. ESPN films made a documentary film “Fantastic Lies,” there’s a book “The Price of Silence” and the Coach was fired for not throwing his team under the bus. He couldn’t even get a job volunteer coaching lacrosse for years. He also wrote a book “It’s Not About the Truth.”

Non sports related: Rolling Stone published an expose on the University of Virginia frat rape in 2014. I read it and was suitably horrified - why had UVA allowed this to occur? But not so fast, the article was retracted. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...ss/media/rape-uva-rolling-stone-frat.amp.html

This is not to discredit any victims. I have deep respect for victims who come forward and perps should be punished to the fullest extent. But I’ve seen figures that 2-8% (which seems a large discrepancy) are false reports.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I do not know of any other figure skaters, no. But I do know of at least two gymnasts. I have posted about them before but will repeat myself.

Alex Naddour: I believe he was only suspended, though this article says “banned,” by USA Gymnastics. He said Safesport didn’t inform him of the allegations. He was suspended in June of 2018 and reinstated in November 2018. He doesn’t comment on it due to privacy concerns of all involved, which is a lot better than I would have managed. I would have been livid. Wikipedia states USA gymnastics first got allegations in 2012???


https://www.google.com/amp/s/olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/06/21/alex-naddour-banned-gymnastics/amp/


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Naddour#Gymnastics_career

Dan Witenstein, a coach, was cleared that same year: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/812996002

Then you have things that are sports related, but not Safesport related. The Duke Lacrosse team comes immediately to mind. There was no trial, but the players accused of rape got a 20 million dollar settlement from Duke. ESPN films made a documentary film “Fantastic Lies,” there’s a book “The Price of Silence” and the Coach was fired for not throwing his team under the bus. He couldn’t even get a job volunteer coaching lacrosse for years. He also wrote a book “It’s Not About the Truth.”

Non sports related: Rolling Stone published an expose on the University of Virginia frat rape in 2014. I read it and was suitably horrified - why had UVA allowed this to occur? But not so fast, the article was retracted. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...ss/media/rape-uva-rolling-stone-frat.amp.html

This is not to discredit any victims. I have deep respect for victims who come forward and perps should be punished to the fullest extent. But I’ve seen figures that 2-8% (which seems a large discrepancy) are false reports.

Thank you for the information, so little have been done about the dozens coaches reported all along the 2000s to US Gymnastics federation (apart from forbidding sites relating the complaints), but there is so little about it anywhere that I thought the Federation had managed to shut up everybody with the Nasser case and do absolutely nothing against other abusers.

 

[ladyjane]

This must be a downer....not related to this particular case, but still.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/safesport...edly-abusive-figure-skating/story?id=67761777

 

[el henry]

This must be a downer....not related to this particular case, but still.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/safesport...edly-abusive-figure-skating/story?id=67761777

The headline in this particular article appears inaccurate as it is an independent arbitrator to which parties have a right of appeal, and not SafeSport itself, that reduced the ban.

Description of arbitrators:

https://77media.blob.core.windows.net/uscss/1488292331992.arbitrator-qualifications.pdf

 

[ladyjane]

The headline in this particular article appears inaccurate as it is an independent arbitrator to which parties have a right of appeal, and not SafeSport itself, that reduced the ban.

Description of arbitrators:

https://77media.blob.core.windows.net/uscss/1488292331992.arbitrator-qualifications.pdf

How does this work then? To be honest, I just saw the article and it surprised me somewhat. But is the ban reduced or not? I might have understood incorrectly because of this independant arbitration.

 

[SnowWhite]

How does this work then? To be honest, I just saw the article and it surprised me somewhat. But is the ban reduced or not? I might have understood incorrectly because of this independant arbitration.

The ban is reduced. But Safesport didn't want it reduced - that was the decision made be the arbitrator.

 

[ladyjane]

And the arbitrator goes before SafeSport? I posted the article because I was rather surprised (in a negative way) and also a bit upset. El Henry quite rightly informed me - and others here - about the wrong headline. I'm just surprised that presumably an arbitrator can overrule SafeSport. I realise that generally Court decisions can be overruled (that's how courts work), but I didn't realise a decision by SafeSport could - as it's not a court - and not even by a court but an arbitrator. Sorry about this, I am no lawyer even if I've learned some legal things during the course of my life. I certainly don't know about American law. I do know that in my country an arbitrator can mediate in cases like this - but only with the agreement of both parties. That's why this seems so strange to me. Because SafeSport didn't agree....