Raising minimum age for seniors from 15 to 17?

[Skatesocs]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. it needs to be raised a lot. I'm thinking at least 40 so Midori Ito can come back and claim her rightful gold medal and I can win the silver.

You're my favourite

 

[icestorm]

I am originally from Slovenia and if that was the case we would never be able to see Dasa Grm nor Olga Mikutina

Your will always able to see Dasa Grm nor Olga Mikutina at the competitions where they really belong, i. e. Austria and Croatia Championships, Challengers etc. The fact the see them at WC instead of 3 World and/or Olympic Champions (who are in top 10 of World Standing) is a sham.

 

[ancientpeas]

You're my favourite

 

[icestorm]

if the Russian Federation and fans believe that their wealth of ladies do not have enough chances to shine, there is nothing to stop them creating and running their own special competition...

If some federation and fans believe that age limit should be raised, there is nothing to stop them creating and running their own special competitions with the raised age limits.

 

[ancientpeas]

Your will always able to see Dasa Grm nor Olga Mikutina at the competitions where they really belong, i. e. Austria and Croatia Championships, Challengers etc. The fact the see them at WC instead of 3 World Champions (who are in top 10 of World Standing) is a sham.

The fact is that for nearly 40 years the WC would have been 7 or 8 of the top ten being American Ladies. The sport would have been booted out of the Olympics. They threatened Women's Hockey and did in fact boot women's softball for this exact reason. The lack of international competitiveness. U.S. and Canadian coaches have gone to many other countries to encourage women's hockey just to keep it an Olympic sport.

See also: Canadian depth at curling, Finland's depth at ski jumping, dutch depth at speed skating. The Olympics and WC have always limited the number of participants from nations. Usually to 2 or 3.

 

[el henry]

Your will always able to see Dasa Grm nor Olga Mikutina at the competitions where they really belong, i. e. Austria and Croatia Championships, Challengers etc. The fact the see them at WC instead of 3 World and/or Olympic Champions (who are in top 10 of World Standing) is a sham.

I am afraid I disagree.

It would be a sham to have ten skaters from any one country at the *World's* championship, no matter their scores, jumps, or other achievements. The Worlds championships are for the world's skaters, and without the world, they would be a sham.

The Grand Prix Final is for skaters ranked according to certain scores, regardless of country. And fans who want to see that type of competition will be able to enjoy it there.

 

[icestorm]

I am afraid I disagree.

It would be a sham to have ten skaters from any one country at the *World's* championship, no matter their scores, jumps, or other achievements. The Worlds championships are for the world's skaters, and without the world, they would be a sham.

I think WC should be a sport competition where only the best of the bests in the *World* are supposed to compete. Some people thinks it should be some kind of international festival made especially for them to watch on TV how guy from their village takes last place. I think we already have OG for that purpose.

And that's why so many good skaters have a short career. Not because of too low age limit. They spots on ice are taken not by the young prodigies, but by those guys, who are not even in top 100.

 

[Skatesocs]

I wish people would realise that this is a more complex issue than the simplistic binary they divide it into. I find myself in the side of the Russians more often than not in this case, but still it needs to find a more middling solution than one or the other. Yes it's a "WORLD championship" but it's not like the skaters from countries with larger talent pools haven't spent a lot more time and money on breaking down their bodies for a maximum of three spots, and with the politics this sport resorts to, it can really break the psyche of athletes.

 

[ancientpeas]

I believe that the solution here is to change the GPF. I think it should be 12 skaters with no limit on country participation. There is no way, in my opinion, that the isu is going to change the format of the WC. Sure Russia might vote to change the numbers but no one else is going to. It's a dead in the water issue. Rather than complaining about the perceived unfairness (which as I have pointed out has been an issue for awhile) we need to look for a out of the box solution and the GPF seems to be the best solution.

Failing that maybe the Russians or Japanese can come up with some kind of made for TV event that has an invitational field. Heck if I had the money I'd do one for Pairs. It would mostly be Chinese and Russians with a handful of Canadians but it could be cool. The question is and always will be money.

 

[TallyT]

Something called.. I don't know.. Russian Nationals?

Nonono! But seriously, a standalone competition, on Russian soil but perhaps - perhaps - with others (by invitation?) or not, and with prize money to make it worthwhile. Japan Open without the team aspect. That could be fun for all

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. it needs to be raised a lot. I'm thinking at least 40 so Midori Ito can come back and claim her rightful gold medal and I can win the silver.

Or do a proper veterans comp. I'd watch it...

I think WC should be a sport competition where only the best of the bests in the *World* are supposed to compete. Some people thinks it should be some kind of international festival made especially for them to watch on TV how guy from their village takes last place. I think we already have OG for that purpose.

In the end, all the arguments for and against don't matter. You need to convince the smaller feds - the ones you want out of the worlds to fit your own phenoms in? - to vote against their own interests.

Welll.... as they say, lotsa luck on that one.

 

[Skatesocs]

I believe that the solution here is to change the GPF. I think it should be 12 skaters with no limit on country participation. There is no way, in my opinion, that the isu is going to change the format of the WC. Sure Russia might vote to change the numbers but no one else is going to. It's a dead in the water issue. Rather than complaining about the perceived unfairness (which as I have pointed out has been an issue for awhile) we need to look for a out of the box solution and the GPF seems to be the best solution.

Failing that maybe the Russians or Japanese can come up with some kind of made for TV event that has an invitational field. Heck if I had the money I'd do one for Pairs. It would mostly be Chinese and Russians with a handful of Canadians but it could be cool. The question is and always will be money.

First off I like the invitational idea. And I agree it's all about money, which is why there's a limit on participants. But I disagree it would only be Russia. Japan men and ladies are also a deep field. I also disagree with the people who say countries won't develop skating programs without spots. Mathman brought up Yao Bin, and Korea had Kim Yuna. It takes a giant, sure, but look at where the Chinese pairs are now, and how there's a sudden influx of Korean ladies. It takes a willing federation and money - something I grant not everyone has the luxury of, but again it's not a simple binary issue.

 

[SkateSkates]

The most top-level skaters are exhausted after Worlds. Such a skater would have competeted in three high-level competitions within a three month span. It’s more likely that the skaters that did not qualify for GPF, 4CC/Euros, or Worlds would participate and the skaters that did would withdraw. If that’s the case, wouldn’t this be counterproductive?

Such a competition should probably be in WTT format. WTT takes place in April and the skaters take it seriously enough for the money and because it counts for SBs, but not so seriously that they’re succumbing to pressure. And why skip juniors? I thought this was about strong countries? Nowadays skipping the juniors probably means going all the way down to the 50s. For both men and ladies.

Skipping juniors because there are different required elements for the SP, particularly for the RD since the pattern is different. Wouldn’t make sense to allow men’s/ladies juniors to compete since it’s easy to add a 30 second choreo sequence to the LP but not allow Ice dancers.

You don’t have to like the idea, but I think if a large enough prize was attached, skaters would want to participate. They are already in shape from worlds, it would just be maintaining form for a few more weeks while maybe preparing for upcoming shows.

 

[icestorm]

In the end, all the arguments for and against don't matter. You need to convince the smaller feds - the ones you want out of the worlds to fit your own phenoms in? - to vote against their own interests.

Welll.... as they say, lotsa luck on that one.

I don't need to convince anybody in anything. I just express my opinion that Niki Wories and Natasha McKay going to WC instead of Kaori Sakamoto and Ensoo Lim is a disgrace.

 

[TallyT]

I don't need to convince anybody in anything. I just express my opinion that Niki Wories and Natasha McKay going to WC instead of Kaori Sakamoto and Ensoo Lim is a disgrace.

The 'you' was generic, apologies. But the point still stands: it's not gonna change unless the federations are persuaded to vote to do it, the majority are not going to be persuaded to slit their own metaphorical wrists, and not everyone - especially not the audience in those smaller feds - would want to do the persuading. And as someone who would, however sorrowfully, sacrifice quite a few of the top US/Russian/even Japanese men for joyous outliers like Julian Yee, count me among them.

 

[el henry]

I believe that the solution here is to change the GPF. I think it should be 12 skaters with no limit on country participation. There is no way, in my opinion, that the isu is going to change the format of the WC. Sure Russia might vote to change the numbers but no one else is going to. It's a dead in the water issue. Rather than complaining about the perceived unfairness (which as I have pointed out has been an issue for awhile) we need to look for a out of the box solution and the GPF seems to be the best solution.

Failing that maybe the Russians or Japanese can come up with some kind of made for TV event that has an invitational field. Heck if I had the money I'd do one for Pairs. It would mostly be Chinese and Russians with a handful of Canadians but it could be cool. The question is and always will be money.

I agree.

The format of Worlds is not going to change. And personally, I like that it won't change. I would rather see Donovan Carrillo than the fourth best American, Japanese or Russian man, although their history of scores may far exceed Donovan's. Luckily, as the format of Worlds is probably never going to change, I will get what I want. As long as Donovan gets those darned minimums:gaah:

For folks who want to see the top scoring skaters all in one place, an expanded Grand Prix.:thumbsup: No country limits, no country anything, just skaters and their scores. I probably wouldn't watch with as much interest, but others probably would with great interest. Cool

 

[icestorm]

I would rather see Donovan Carrillo than the fourth best American, Japanese or Russian man, although their history of scores may far exceed Donovan's.

Some people consider FS competitions not as a professional's skill contest but as an vulgar show of funny guys or flamboyant women on ice. Guy is not good in skating? But he is so emotional! Girl couldn't jump triple-triple? But look how joyous she is! Send her to WC!

 

[Skatesocs]

The format of Worlds is not going to change. And personally, I like that it won't change. Luckily, as the format of Worlds is probably never going to change, I will get what I want. As long as Donovan gets those darned minimums:gaah:

OK so you won't, in fact, get what you want...

I really wish ether side saw how this kind of response is inflammatory, but oh well.

 

[el henry]

OK so you won't, in fact, get what you want...

I really wish ether side saw how this kind of response is inflammatory, but oh well.

I am sorry, but I’m not certain how quoting half of my post, without the half that contained the credit that I gave to those who would prefer a competition with the best scoring skaters, is inflammatory?

I will get what I want, which is Worlds as currently constructed, not because of my own wonderful self, but because as has been so ably argued by others, small feds will never agree to a Worlds that excludes them. And they get to vote:confused2:

I like Worlds as currently constructed, so I am happy about that, and thrilled to see Julian and Donovan and all the other small Fed skaters, even at the expense of my beloved Andrew T. That is my opinion. Others hold different opinions. I’m not sure how a difference in opinion, as long as respectfully stated which I tried to do, is inflammatory :scratch:

 

[icestorm]

Today all you need to get to WC is ridiculous minimum and a passport of the country where nobody cares about figure skating. That is a problem, not the age limit.

 

[karne]

Some people consider FS competitions not as a professional's skill contest but as an vulgar show of funny guys or flamboyant women on ice. Guy is not good in skating? But he is so emotional! Girl couldn't jump triple-triple? But look how joyous she is! Send her to WC!

Whether people like you like it or not, the World Championships is in fact the World Championships, not the Russia-and-USA-and-Japan championships, and thus all countries that can be represented should be.

The minimums, and their disgusting raising mid-season of the ladies' minimums, were already an attempt to curb little country participation to please folks like you. No skater ever got better by being refused competition; no country ever increased its strength by being forbidden to skate on the world stage.

EDIT: A ridiculous minimum?

The minimum is hardly ridiculous - or if it is, it is ridiculously high. A lovely young lady at Euros did an SP with a clean 3F, clean 3Lo-2T, a 2A, and all level 3 and 4 spins/steps. That's hardly "easy content". And she still did not make the minimums for the WC.