Should More Singles Skaters Switch To Pairs?

[AshWagsFan]

As most people probably now know, Viktoria Vasilieva, a ladies’ singles skater from Russia, recently switched disciplines to pairs. This was an unexpected change, however, it may have been the smartest move she could make.

In countries where the singles’ fields are very deep (such as Russia and Japan) should more middle-tier skaters consider switching to pairs? This could be seen as a way for them to get to the top of the sport they love.

Which talented singles skaters that are “middle of the pack” skaters in their countries should consider switching to pairs?

Is this a good switch for skaters like this, or are they better off trying to improve in singles?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

As most people probably now know, Viktoria Vasilieva, a ladies’ singles skater from Russia, recently switched disciplines to pairs. This was an unexpected change, however, it may have been the smartest move she could make.

In countries where the singles’ fields are very deep (such as Russia and Japan) should more middle-tier skaters consider switching to pairs? This could be seen as a way for them to get to the top of the sport they love.

No, not unless they know they can do it, will find a perfect fitting partner and have success there. Otherwise, there is no guarantee they will get to the top.
Pair skating is very, very different(other than the obvious) from singles and you can't just switch because you can't cut it in your current discipline. It's the same misconception that "if you can't make it in singles just switch to ice dance." Sorry to be blunt but not happening easily.

Success is never a guarantee.

ETA: This is coming from someone that was lucky enough to have success in singles and ice dance from a young age competitively up through elite ranks.

 

[Skatesocs]

Japan, yes. Also try for ice dance.

Russia has a very deep pairs field to go along with its ladies though.

 

[AshWagsFan]

No, not unless they know they can do it, will find a perfect fitting partner and have success there. Otherwise, there is no guarantee they will get to the top.
Pair skating is very, very different(other than the obvious) from singles and you can't just switch because you can't cut it in your current discipline. It's the same misconception that "if you can't make it in singles just switch to ice dance." Sorry to be blunt but not happening easily.

Success is never a guarantee.

This is true, but they could also switch back to singles if it does not work.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Japan, yes. Also try for ice dance.

Russia has a very deep pairs field to go along with its ladies though.

Yes, but if they try it while they are younger in Russia, they may be able to get to the top when other skaters retire.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

This is true, but they could also switch back to singles if it does not work.

They could, but there are many factors that could make it even harder for them to succeed at that point. You don't just play back and forth in this sport. You don't.

 

[Skatesocs]

Yes, but if they try it while they are younger in Russia, they may be able to get to the top when other skaters retire.

Maybe. I just feel like the others would have a huge headstart, and they'd be competing against others on their own level, too.

I brought up Ice Dance for Japan, because I think Shingo Nishiyama was a singles skater until recently. He became an Ice dancer.

 

[AshWagsFan]

They could, but there are many factors that could make it even harder for them to succeed at that point. You don't just play back and forth in this sport. You don't.

Some skaters have done so. Kristi Yamaguchi was a successful pairs and singles skater, Meaghan Duhamel was a singles skater before switching to pairs (and almost switched back to singles in 2018), and Deanna Stellato was a junior world champion in singles before switching to pairs.

I agree it’s 100% a risky move, but the risk could pay off.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Some skaters have done so. Kristi Yamaguchi was a successful pairs and singles skater, Meaghan Duhamel was a singles skater before switching to pairs (and almost switched back to singles in 2018), and Deanna Stellato was a junior world champion in singles before switching to pairs.

I agree it’s 100% a risky move, but the risk could pay off.

Can you please go back and read my original post here. I did TWO disciplines from a young age and was successful at both at the elite level. What I am saying is you don't say "oh singles is no fun anymore, let's go do pairs," then commit to pairs (if one can even do it) and then bail on your partner because it gets lame for you and you aren't winning, then say well back to singles.

It's just ridiculous.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It seems that Americans are very much about individual glory, so I think a lot of our most talented women would rather go for the spotlight that comes with being a US ladies champion. The singles skaters here get the vast majority of sponsorships and other opportunities. For example, I think Meryl and Charlie were the only dance or pair skaters to appear on Dancing with the Stars, whereas Kristi, Nancy, Tonya, Mirai, Dorothy H, Evan, and Adam all competed on the show. If I were a woman skater who couldn't break into the top 5 at Nationals and had the right build to be lifted and thrown, I'd strongly consider a switch.

 

[hanca]

Can you please go back and read my original post here. I did TWO disciplines from a young age and was successful at both at the elite level. What I am saying is you don't say "oh singles is no fun anymore, let's go do pairs," then commit to pairs (if one can even do it) and then bail on your partner because it gets lame for you and you aren't winning, then say well back to singles.

It's just ridiculous.

The way you just suggest, that’s indeed ridiculous. However, in some countries it makes sense to switch to pairs or ice dance if the singles field is so packed. For example, in Japan, lots of ladies, with the top ladies working on triple axels and quads, there is nearly no one in pairs and limited numbers in ice dance, if I was a girl who is constantly placing towards the middle or bottom at the nationals, I would start wondering whether the way to 4CC or worlds would be through a different discipline.

In the past there was an interview with skaters who just decided that they want to become dancers and managed to switch pretty successfully. Russian Davakova, who was dating and later married Morozov, managed to switch from pairs to ice dance pretty successfully (she said in an interview that the older she became, the more she got scared during high lifts, twist and throws). I am saying successfully because she managed to qualify to the nationals in a new discipline with a new partner and newly in seniors and placed seventh. Unfortunately she stopped after this one season she stopped skating - I guess it may not be fun when your husband is coaching you, and why bother with so much hard work when she is earning decent money through YouTube videos, so we don’t know whether she would manage to get somewhere internationally. In Russia, Tutberidze also realised that her daughter did not have a chance in singles and spoke to her about switching to ice dance. Now her daughter placed third at the nationals and fifth at the junior worlds. There are of course a number of skaters who switched and it didn’t work out for them. Tarasenko tried to switch to pairs, did one season, was pretty useless and after that we haven’t seen him again. Stavitskaya tried ice dance, and she also gradually disappeared. It seems that the earlier one decides to switch, the easier it may be. If they switch and then are still junior eligible, it is easier than switching and moving to seniors. It also seems that it helps if one’s mother (or husband) is a coach. That make things easier.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Can you please go back and read my original post here. I did TWO disciplines from a young age and was successful at both at the elite level. What I am saying is you don't say "oh singles is no fun anymore, let's go do pairs," then commit to pairs (if one can even do it) and then bail on your partner because it gets lame for you and you aren't winning, then say well back to singles.

It's just ridiculous.

Didn’t see your edit

I don’t think they have to do two at the same time, but, why not try pairs? Many people have done it. I also agree with you, I don’t condone bailing on your partner, but, depending on the situation (like getting dumped by their partner/their partner retiring), people may switch back to singles. It doesn’t mean it’s the best option, however, being able to do two disciplines does open the door for More opportunity.

I’m also very impressed by your singles/ice dance career!

 

[AshWagsFan]

The way you just suggest, that’s indeed ridiculous. However, in some countries it makes sense to switch to pairs or ice dance if the singles field is so packed. For example, in Japan, lots of ladies, with the top ladies working on triple axels and quads, there is nearly no one in pairs and limited numbers in ice dance, if I was a girl who is constantly placing towards the middle or bottom at the nationals, I would start wondering whether the way to 4CC or worlds would be through a different discipline.

In the past there was an interview with skaters who just decided that they want to become dancers and managed to switch pretty successfully. Russian Davakova, who was dating and later married Morozov, managed to switch from pairs to ice dance pretty successfully (she said in an interview that the older she became, the more she got scared during high lifts, twist and throws). I am saying successfully because she managed to qualify to the nationals in a new discipline with a new partner and newly in seniors and placed seventh. Unfortunately she stopped after this one season she stopped skating - I guess it may not be fun when your husband is coaching you, and why bother with so much hard work when she is earning decent money through YouTube videos, so we don’t know whether she would manage to get somewhere internationally. In Russia, Tutberidze also realised that her daughter did not have a chance in singles and spoke to her about switching to ice dance. Now her daughter placed third at the nationals and fifth at the junior worlds. There are of course a number of skaters who switched and it didn’t work out for them. Tarasenko tried to switch to pairs, did one season, was pretty useless and after that we haven’t seen him again. Stavitskaya tried ice dance, and she also gradually disappeared. It seems that the earlier one decides to switch, the easier it may be. If they switch and then are still junior eligible, it is easier than switching and moving to seniors. It also seems that it helps if one’s mother (or husband) is a coach. That make things easier.

I agree, if you’re 14, 15, or 16, and the outlook of you’re career in singles is bleak (example-consistently finishing outside of top 6 at nationals by significant margin) - then why not try pairs? Many of these skaters can do the easier triples, they’d just need to learn the lift technique, throw technique, and spin technique. If they start when they’re young, they’ll have more success as they get older.

 

[flanker]

As most people probably now know, Viktoria Vasilieva, a ladies’ singles skater from Russia, recently switched disciplines to pairs. This was an unexpected change, however, it may have been the smartest move she could make.

In countries where the singles’ fields are very deep (such as Russia and Japan) should more middle-tier skaters consider switching to pairs? This could be seen as a way for them to get to the top of the sport they love.

Which talented singles skaters that are “middle of the pack” skaters in their countries should consider switching to pairs?

Is this a good switch for skaters like this, or are they better off trying to improve in singles?

In Japan the problem is that I think several, maybe even many ladies could be potentially well suited for pairs, but they have only a few men that could do the same.

 

[hanca]

Didn’t see your edit

I don’t think they have to do two at the same time, but, why not try pairs? Many people have done it. I also agree with you, I don’t condone bailing on your partner, but, depending on the situation (like getting dumped by their partner/their partner retiring), people may switch back to singles. It doesn’t mean it’s the best option, however, being able to do two disciplines does open the door for More opportunity.

I’m also very impressed by your singles/ice dance career!

While it seems that from singles to pairs it is possible to learn the extra elements within a year (quite a few skaters did, for example Kadyrova), from pairs back to singles it may be much worse, especially if someone was in pairs for a while. Singles spend lots of time practising jumps, whereas pairs have much more non jump elements and as they spend time on those, they don’t practice the jumps as much, at least not those they don’t need. So trying then to get back all triples, and nowadays triples are not enough so trying to get 3A or quad after doing pairs for a few years may be quite hard.

 

[AshWagsFan]

In Japan the problem is that I think severeal, maybe even many ladies could be potentially well suited for pairs, but they have only a few men that could do the same.

Yes, but they could also try with a non-Japanese pairs skater if they wanted to.

The past pairs Olympic champions both were not originally from Germany!

 

[Mathman]

Good thread topic, thank you!

My own view is that pairs is too hard. I think singles is easier for most people. You only have yourself to worry about.

Rena Inoue won national medals as a single skater in Japan and represented Japan at the Olympics in singles. Then as a pairs skater for the USA with jJohn Baldwin she won two national championships and went to the 2006 Olympics, where they were the first pairs skaters ever to land a throw triple Axel. :

 

[Mathman]

This is coming from someone that was lucky enough to have success in singles and ice dance ...

(I will delete this if you think I am giving away too much information. )

You can do both because you have an extraordinary sense both of your own body and of your partner. I have seen you skate in local events where you had to prop up a partner who was not a pro, but your deftness made him look accomplished.

 

[hanca]

The only problem is that it is extremely difficult to get Japanese citizenships and they would also need to give up their original citizenship, if you are thinking specifically about Japan. Or accept that you may never go to olympics (if you are a Japanese lady and find non Japanese partner).

 

[alexaa]

I am not sure if everyone is aware of that both Megan Wessenberg and Katie McBeath switched to pairs.

Katie is paired with Nate Bartholomay, while Megan is training in Todd and Jenni’s team right now.